Che Guevara, one of the most brilliant gureilla fighters of all time, even if the ideology he supports has proven not to be the brightest. What do you all think of the tactics he formulated in support of his revolutions? Cowardice? or courage with brains? what can we learn from his tactics and mindset today? can we learn to bring about our own revolutions?

Someone got Joey to post? Wow, I'm amazed.

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Would you really expect someone to spend up to 10 years in school to become a doctor so they can be paid the same wages as the cabdriver, or the waitress

Communism can be interpreted in several ways. One interpretation is that there should be equity in wages not equality. Meaning all doctors who study for the same amount of years and are at the same "level" earn the same wages. If doctors were to earn the same as waiters than we would have a motive and diversity of occupations crisis, i've posted about that before.

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the government should not control EVERYTHING.

Actually that is the response i was hoping to get out of Joey. It is very ironic that communism is setup through socailism. The main idea of communism is a revolution by the proletariat on the bourgeoisie. Marx states that the proletariat (working class) has the right to revolt against the bourgeoisie (capital owners, not capitalists) inorder to prevent further exploitation of the working class by the upper class and to distribute the wealth and capital equaly across the masses. So you'll now see how ironic it is that communism, an ideology aimed at preventing all the capital being controlled by one group or class, was setup through socialism, an economy and government where all the capital and industries are controlled by one governmental panel.

Thats is why i believe that communism, when it comes just to its basics, and not the details of who earns what, is a very logical notion that has long existed before it was called communism. Technically, we have never seem a true communist country or government. We have seen socialism, and other governments setup in the name of communism.

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Originally posted by Wolfie:
You know that, in theory, communism is better than democracy when it comes to things like peace and equality? Or do you have no idea what communism is or how it works?

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Originally posted by Someguy:
What do you have against Karl Marx? Communism isn't all that bad, and in fact very logical as an ideology.

In theory, as Wolfie said, communism is a very good system. Especially when it comes to equality, but all people should not be treated equally when it comes to things like wages and property, and the government should not control EVERYTHING.

Would you really expect someone to spend up to 10 years in school to become a doctor so they can be paid the same wages as the cabdriver, or the waitress.

There is nothing wrong with people praising whoever they want. It is very hypocritical of you to tell people to refer to the Constitution but then criticize them for exercising their freedom of speech and thought.

Heres a very intersting fact you'll enjoy Joey, which i mentioned on another thread but u did not respond to. During the revolution in Cuba. Although the US publically and officailly supported the established government at the time of the revolution, the US gov. supplied the revolutionaires (meaning Che and his people) with arms under the table. Obviously your not educated in what your government actually did.

By the way, calling Che a murderous "revolutionary" is also hypocritical when you think of the US revolution. At the time battles were fought on open grounds where battalions faced each other in organized formation and just shot at each other head on. The minute men and other revolutionaries used tactics resembling present day guerilla tactics. Hiding in forests and ambushing the British soldiers. Now, the American revolutionaires are justified for using these tactics because they were in a difficult position and outnumbered. But at the time they were regarded as barbaric, cowardly and honourless.

What do you have against Karl Marx? Communism isnt all that bad, and infact very logical as an ideology.

You know that, in theory, communism is better than democracy when it comes to things like peace and equality? Or do you have no idea what communism is or how it works?

You guys realize you are totally proclaiming love of a Communist right?

The guy was a brutal communist, not some "brilliant" hero.

You guys are obviously not educated in what Che actually did. Him and his pal Fidel Castro deserve execution. Thankfully, Che was given the proper treatment for his deeds.

Why would you guys praise and hail a murderous "revolutionary?"

What revolution? Try going back to the Constitution, not instituting the works of Karl Marx.

For those of you who don't know, there's a movie about the man that's getting released. It's actually pretty good; so good it's almost four hours but it never feels that long.

Che was also known for his brutal discipline. He demanded that deserters or informers be shot dead. In his diary he wrote he shot a man execution style in the right temple with a .38 pistol. But then again, you can't say your down for a revolution and all that and back down. Maybe harsh discipline was what these guerillas needed.

I don't really give into him being that great of a military leader. Sure, he was a good tactician, and literally wrote the book on guerrilla warfare. However, I don't really think he was that original.

Guerrilla Warfare has been around ever since the invention of the musket. The Revolutionary War could be said to be won in part by guerrilla warfare (Snipers, sabotage, etc). It was hardly anything new.

A lot of it had been developed in World War II as well.

He had the courage to take on the United States and the Soviet Union at the same time. Poor soul.

I'll look for his diaries, thanks for the tip speed

The thing about him using standardized gureilla tactics is that he wrote the book on effectively using half those techniques (which until then were only a bright idea made up by some young KGB agent in moscow) in the field. That alone proved (at one point) innovation and a adaptability though from what you say it appears that as his ideology strengthened his innovation and adaptability (not to mention his common sense) flew the coop, leaving him to be killed, dismembered and buried in a hidden chunk of the bolivian country side.

Which brings us to the cult of che and his postion as a hero of revolution, note that he's not a hero of "the" revolution (though he certaintly is in cuba) but a hero of revolution in general, many young (teen) americans turn to him because he presents the romanticized figure of a man fighting against an unjust and evil system and this appeals to teens finding the reigns of rebellion not against the state perhaps, but at least against self and of course parents. How did this man achieve such cult like status globally? Would his legend be lessened if they had his body from the start (they later did find it)?

Amp you should try and get his Bolivian Diaries, I have a copy and he explains his tactical and military reasoning in his own words. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

As a military leader I think he is somewhat overrated, he used standarized guerilla tactics of hit and run and ambushes to take on superior forces, but he overrated his groups worth in bolivia, and didn't account for the fact that he only had around 50 effective soldiers at the movements peak. After that his group became divided and killed of slowly by the army. During this time he displayed a lack of adaptability, which likely stemed from his political idealism. Overall, his worth was greater as a political figure and as a simbol of revolution than as the actual leader of said revolution. Allthough his intent of stirring up the bolivian working class into joining him and replicating cuba's revolution failed, he did manage to make the armed forces exagerate the situation hugely, which in turn did create more popular resentment towards the government. Ultimately his movement failed because the farmers on which he relied as allies sided with the government and sold him out.

He was Argentinian, not cuban like most people believe.

Well to start off his reall name is Ernesto Guevara de la Serna. He died October 9th 1967. But anyways Im sure a lot of people know about him...if not youll find out. To me fighting in something you believe in is important.
Fortunatly it made him famous. I mean people as young as you or me know about him. And it takes a lot to go out there and go against things that you dont have the same feelings for and fight for yours to get heard. But then again people who don't try as hard or do just don't get heard. He did..both get heard and try. Anyways I would tell everyone who dosent know about him but im tired so long story short he was a Cuban revolutionary and political leader.