I must disagree with any return of a filter, but I also cannot agree with a ban of racial slurs. Intellectual freedom is necessary for progress. If you ban racial slurs, you are no different than a Chinese government that disallows speech or information that it feels is dangerous. It sets a precedent of use of authority that seeks to prescribe morals to others. It mandates a certain level of immaturity- Kant defined immaturity as "is the inability to use one’s understanding without guidance from another." Whether you come to a moral conclusion or not is moot if you use someone else's mores to form your own.
It is arbitrary at best, and authoritarian at worst to allow one form of socially unacceptable speech but to disallow another. If racial slurs are allowed, and I am mistaken, please disregard my rant.

Ok, I'm offically going to respond to this topic.
Bushsupporter, I understand that you & horseartistgrl feel that swear words like Fuck are are offensive & that is your right. However, I must question the logic of your last post here because the 2 words are not the same. Fuck is a slang/curse word that originated in England. It was derived from the Germanic "Frichen" which meant "to strike" or "to have sex with". It can be used to display emotion, to define a problematic situation, or simply to talk about sex. It can be used in place of most nouns, verbs, adjectives, & adverbs. It is a farely dirty & aggressive word but versatile nonetheless.
Nigger is a curse word/racial slur that originated among the English speakers as well. It was meant to define & insult groups of people who were thought to be "less than human" & was particularly used when talking to or about the indiginous peoples of Africa, Mexico, & the Americas. In recent years due to the amount of usage it got during the slavery it has come mostly to mean anything involving a black person. While it is still highly used by both white & black people in the south, & is often used by rappers, It is still a negative & derogative term. Fuck is just a curse word that may offend people who dislike cursing, but Nigger is a racial slur that is used to undermine the credibility of an entire race of people. No they are not the same at all & anyone that says they are in my oppinion is a fool. Your argument is filled with holes on this one. You may disagree with me & you may disagree with Ginger but the Mods have spoken. I say that since Ginger stated her professional oppinion on here about this that we should let this argument die. It's not helping anyone. Let's move onto a more inteligent & fun topic.

People should be able to say what they want. Maybe someone's opinion offends me, but that's their opinion so I can't do anything about it. So should we not be allowed to state our opinions on YN either? Where is it gonna end?

So "fuck" is allowed but I think that "nigger" would not be. Why, because it offends people, including me. I would like again to restate my objection to this policy and ruling. I support the filter's return and implore YN to rethink this silly policy.

The debate on censorship of any kind has been underway on YN for years. We worked with all of you to come to a decision that censroship was inappropriate. WE all agreed, however, that personal attacks that were mean-spirited would likely be removed particularly as requested by multiple users.

At this time, we will continue to support that decision. We will of course be willing to revisit. But we respect all of you in managing the board environment. If more than two of you request a posting removal we will consider and take appropriate action.

I hope this is helpful. And I am moved by the posting quoted below!

Ginger

quote:

So this is where we are... do we want casual forums... or do we want proffessional forums? My thoughts are that we want casual because youth in general are not introduced to a proffessional enviroment until at a later age. I for one would like to continue to use casual language rather than the uptight proper language used in a buisness enviroment.

So because this was such a huge issue last weekend, I feel as though the staff should at least way in with their thoughts on the problem and if there is a way to appease others who have issues with swearing as well as those who hold they have a right to use it in a manner that is not disruptive in the whole scheme of things. With that in mind, will the staff who frequent the boards, as well as both Ginger and YNLissa, state how they feel this problem could be resolve should it re-arise in either the near or distant future?

Ok, this is my last post for a while, so I'm going to say all 75 horse breeds I know just for fun!

I'll start with American breeds:
1.American Quarter horse, 2.Tennesse Walking Horse, 3.American Paint, 4.Appoloosa, 5.American Saddlebred, 6.National Show Horse, 7.Missuori Fox Trotter, 8.American Cream Draft, 9.Nacota, 10.Mustang, 11.Chincotegue Pony, 12. Morgan, 13. Standardbred, 14. Apendix Quarter Horse (QH and throughbred cross) 15. Pony of the Americas, 16. American Shetland, 17.Miniture Horse (debatable), Palimino (one of my favs),
Europe:
18.Swedish Warmblood, 19. North Swedish, 20.Irish Draught, 21.Icelandic Pony/Horse (puttign Iceland in Europe cuz of Denmark) 22.Clydesdale, 23. Shire (largest breed in the world), 24. Suffolk, Suffolk Punch, 25. Hackney, 26. Cleveland Bay (beautiful, but rare) 27. Schleswig, 28. South German (real original, huh?) 29. Westphalian, 30. French Trootter, 31. Percheron, 32.Selle Francias, 33. Boulonais, 34. Trakeher, 35. Hanoverian, 36. Holstein, 37. Olderburg, 38. Aredennais, 39. Camargue, 40. Norman Cob, 41. Danish Warmblood, 42. Jutland, 43. Belgian Draught, 44. Thoroghbred (debatable), 45. Andaluisian, 46. Lippanzaner, 47. Noriker, 48. Breton, 49. Dutch Warmblood, 50. Friesian (my very favorite) 51. Maremano, 52. Italian Heavy Draught, 53. Gelderland, 54. Lusitino, 55. Shetland, 56. Dales, 57. Fell, Connemara, 58. Fjord, 59. Riding Pony (another original name!) 60. Welsh Pony, 61. Welsh Cob, 62. Welsh Mountain,
Russia:
63. Budenny, 64. Tersk, 65. Orlov Trotter, 66. Vladimir Heavy Draught, 67. Kabardin
Middle East:
68. Arab, 69. Barb (debatable), 70. Anglo Arab, 71.
Random Ponies:
72. Exmoor, 73. Dartmoor, 74. Haflinger, 75. Highland
OOPS! I went over!
South America:
Peruvian Paso, Criollo
Australia:
Australian Stock Horse, Brumby

There is no campacity to the human brain.
BYE YN!
I'll check in occasionaly, when ever I'm bored. I'll see you all when I rule the world. ( NO JOKE, I WILL!)!!! and, if any of you happen to be at Mock Trail Nationals when I'm there, I'll see you there too. BYE!!

Nobody has the right not to be offended.

That's the reality right there.

quote:

Now, if he were my age, he could grow, and be the hieght he would like to be. He wouldn't need those heels, because he would be taller. People could change the way they talk, and then you wouldn't need to try and make people think that swearing is OK.

When I was your age, I wanted to be 5'8" at least. I still need heels to reach that, even with a small growth spurt at seventeen.

It is not that easy to change your height permanently just like it is not always that easy to change the way you talk permanently. I've stopped swearing before but it always comes back to me since I don't care enough to make a noticeable effort to stop. There will be temporary changes, just like wearing heels will temporary make you taller, but I can't be 5'8" permanently just like I can't make others stop or start swearing or using other words that I really dislike.

I know you may not want to use the words, but unless they are completely offensive to a specific group of people or are insulting or completely out of line (like repeated FUCKS over and over again just for the sake of swearing), then I don't see why we should have to deal with a censor. If one thing is censored, what's to say something else that only a few people have a problem with won't be?

quote:

Now, if he were my age, he could grow, and be the hieght he would like to be. He wouldn't need those heels, because he would be taller. People could change the way they talk, and then you wouldn't need to try and make people think that swearing is OK.

*cough* you can't really just grow to the height you want to be... even when you're young.. I stopped growing at the age of 12!! TWELVE... for "Gosh dang" sakes! I'm 20 now! So thats really not a good example..

quote:

Originally posted by Ikki14Reed:

quote:

And I wish I were taller, but it isn't going to happen.

*loans you a pair of three inch heels*

I hope you're a size ten in mens.

Wearing heels doesn't really make him taller. He still is the same height, people just would think he's taller. The same with swear words. Youmay think that they are fine, and you might make everyone else think they are fine to say. But that doesn't change the fact that they are wrong to say. Just like heels don't change the fact that he is shorter than he would like.
Now, if he were my age, he could grow, and be the hieght he would like to be. He wouldn't need those heels, because he would be taller. People could change the way they talk, and then you wouldn't need to try and make people think that swearing is OK.

I feel so sick. I had a painful coughing fit while I was riding, and coughed up blood all over my horse. Uh, my throat hurts so bad. But, who cares when I'm horseback riding? Not me! So I rode for another 2 hours. Even though I felt like I had banged my head into a wall repeatabley. So sorry if I have any spelling errors.

quote:

We should operate based on reality not on wishes.

I do belelive the reality of swearing is that it isn't always veiwed as being obscene.. yes in a proffessional enviroment swearing is not in anyway encouraged.. however in a casual setting it's quite normal for people to swear.

So this is where we are... do we want casual forums... or do we want proffessional forums? My thoughts are that we want casual because youth in general are not introduced to a proffessional enviroment until at a later age. I for one would like to continue to use casual language rather than the uptight proper language used in a buisness enviroment.

quote:

And I wish I were taller, but it isn't going to happen.

*loans you a pair of three inch heels*

I hope you're a size ten in mens.

Seriously now, I agree with Meg. I'm all for using all words as long as they are used correctly and do not directly insult another group of people. And Horseartist? As nice as that Utopia sounds, I don't think it will work as well in some of the schools I've been too.

quote:

Originally posted by Meagan87:

quote:

why can't words be words?

I agree. I would much rather see all words (good, bad and otherwise) for what they are, instead of a bunch of ****. Good point.

And I wish I were taller, but it isn't going to happen. The reality is that those words are regarded as obscenity by our society. We should operate based on reality not on wishes.

quote:

So? I go to a Catholic school, and it isn't allowed, but we all do it anyway, just like gum and cell phones and emailing during class and skipping classes and so on and so forth. Even some of my teachers swear on occasion.

At my school, someone doesn't only get in trouble hen they swear, but people stop hanging out with them. We have a majority of good kids, who only like being friends with good kids. Ofcourse, we have naughty boys who hang out with each other, and the populars who hang out with each other and are boy crazy, but they are in minority.
I have to go riding now, I'll talk more later.

quote:

why can't words be words?

I agree. I would much rather see all words (good, bad and otherwise) for what they are, instead of a bunch of ****. Good point.

quote:

(but this statement doesn't apply to me, because I attend a Christian school, where any form of swear is not allowed.)

So? I go to a Catholic school, and it isn't allowed, but we all do it anyway, just like gum and cell phones and emailing during class and skipping classes and so on and so forth. Even some of my teachers swear on occasion. Just because you make something against the rules doesn't mean it is going to stop. As my fellow YNer ikki stated, there are several ways to get around the filters, such as adding a period or misspelling the word or using a zero instead of an o or a money sign instead of an s. Plus, with the filter, all it does is turn the letters of the swear into an asterisk, so everybody still knows what you are intending to say, what you are trying to say, and they still get the idea. To me and many other YNers, the filter is much more of a nuisance then actually seeing the swear word even if I don't agree with the the swearing. I mean, is it really necessary to block words such as assembly and class and pass and glass just because they contains ass and there is no way to program the filter so that it wouldn't? I know I would rather just see a word than asterisks everywhere due to the fact that the filter would block random words just because they had other words in it.

If you haven't noticed the name of this website is "Youthnoise" and technically since its the youth here that are posting and swearing I think its accceptable. You can't compare swearing to racism either.. they're totally two completely different things. Using racism as an arguing point against swearing... is for one completely oftopic and for two is a cheap move to bring a topic that will obviously bring an emotional negative response to the boards.

Argue whats being argued.

I find them innocent words as long as they are not used in a derogatory manner. I am not for a return of the filter because, unless hurtful to a specific group of people, I am for freedom of speech.

YN is against anything that disturbs the flow of the boards. TS's post fits that. I do not believe that the post that started this whole discussion does. That is what I think and I know we do not agree, which returns to the question of: "Who does YN agree with?"

And in all honesty, I would not be surprised if other high contributing, intelligent posters left if a filter is installed. If they take out some words that one person deems offensive, would they do so if someone else asks them to? I really really hate the word "retarded" as I find it derogatory to a specific group of people. If swear words were filtered, what about that word? Should I force YN to filter it as well? And if they do, where does it stop? Who should determine what words are or are not offensive and inappropriate to use?

I find it sad that as I have been for years lobbying for the return of the filter, horseartist (a valuable and articulate member of YN) is considering leaving over an issue that should have been settled a long time ago. It is clear that the filter needs to come back. Are there ways around the filter, sure. But if you do that you are clearly aknowledging that you are breaking the rules and should be edited by mods.

This is not a "culture" issue. Hateful racism is a part of some people's culture yet it is not and should not be tolerated here on YN.

The facts are simple: the rules of play cleary state that profanity is unacceptable and that repeated uses will result in post moderation. This should be strictly enforced. A filter is a way to do this.

I will continue to fight with my ally to enforce the rules that YN has clearly stated.

*Off Topic* By the way, I went to nationals in mock trial when I was a junior in high school. We had one of the best teams in the state every year. You should definately do it next fall.