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Registered: February 27, 2003
Posts: 2216
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quote: You people cling to this like there's no tomorrow do you? If there is no seperation between Church & State, then why is our national motto "In God We Trust"? America was founded on Juedo-Christian morals, and its going to stay that way.
Yes, we do "cling" to that, know why? Because we're right. Our national motto should NOT be "In God We Trust", we should NOT have "under God" in our pledge, and we should NOT have "In God We Trust" on our money. It goes against the Constitution. Period. It's just that nobody's taken it to court yet. quote: I think of myself as rather staunchly opposed to the idea of prayer in public schools. I'm an atheist and I have been in many situations in which everyone around me was praying and they were of course expecting me to do likewise. I feel very awkward in such situations because I feel as if just sitting there and not doing anything would come off as offensive, while I feel that reciting the prayer and playing along with what everyone else is doing is offensive in on more complex level. I feel as it's an insult to their faith and to my own (or lack there of) for me to offer prayers to a deity that I don't believe in. These situations, of course, all came up in private company. If I had to face similar ones every day at school, I honestly don't know what I'd do, but I can say for sure I wouldn't be happy about it.
Now, as for exceptions, I have no objection to school prayer if it's in a non-public school which has some pre-specificed religious affiliation, or if it takes place outside of class time. If some kids decide that they want to get together and say a prayer during lunch, I have no problem with that. I just don't want to be required to say the prayer, or be in the room while everyone else says it (and in my school the ones saying the prayers would be pretty much everyone but me).
I think that including prayer in public school cirrculum not only wastes time but creates undue separation between Christian students and non-Christian ones.
That was beautiful Azelma, thank you.  quote: Evolution has nothing to do with science.
That's so unfounded on fact that it's actually funny. There is LOADS of proof that evolution exists. I don't want to repeat every thing I've already said so please go to the "The theory of evolution" thread on here to see that argument.
"I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education." Thomas Jefferson
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Registered: May 07, 2005
Posts: 1213
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quote: Originally posted by liberalhugger:
Our constitution garuntees us separation between church and state.
You people cling to this like there's no tomorrow do you? If there is no seperation between Church & State, then why is our national motto "In God We Trust"? America was founded on Juedo-Christian morals, and its going to stay that way. quote: Religion should be a personal matter, and not promoted in public school where it offends many students.
I want to be the first to ask, that since the majority of Americans are Christian, and we live in a democracy, why should we care if other students are offended? American culture is white Christian culture, and if they're going to live here, they had better accept it. quote: (Feel free to join a private school or create a non crusading prayer club if you object).
Haha, Bring back the crusades! Take back the Holy Land!  quote: Classrooms are not the place to forcefeed a personal agenda!
Okay, right. I'm sure professor Churchill is the world's most unbiased teacher. quote: I am also assuming we are, for majority reasons,talking about Christan prayer here.
Right, cause if its Muslim, its okay! After all, you don't want to upset your voting base, do you? quote: For you pro prayers, the most of you would not tolerate recitings from the Koran or a Wiccan book.
Once again, we are talking about America where very few people are Muslim or Wiccan. Besides, I'd rather die than be one of those witches or have to wear an A-rab bedsheet. quote: If we make an exception- the U.S. will be no more democratic than a fascist country that censors and dictates citizens' beliefs.
Yep, America is right out of 1984 and if you don't accept Jesus, the Thought Police will drag you away in the middle of the night.  quote: We are not yet the United Christian States of America!!!
Nor are we the United Atheist States of America. There are more god fearing people here than God haters.
myspace.com/thesnowfell
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Registered: May 27, 2005
Posts: 218
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Our constitution garuntees us separation between church and state. Religion should be a personal matter, and not promoted in public school where it offends many students. (Feel free to join a private school or create a non crusading prayer club if you object).Classrooms are not the place to forcefeed a personal agenda! I am also assuming we are, for majority reasons,talking about Christan prayer here. For you pro prayers, the most of you would not tolerate recitings from the Koran or a Wiccan book. Can you imagine the uproar that that would generate in our country?!! If we make an exception- the U.S. will be no more democratic than a fascist country that censors and dictates citizens' beliefs. We are not yet the United Christian States of America!!!
"I am my brain's publisher." -Philippe Stark
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Registered: March 03, 2005
Posts: 527
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i want to know something, did this start with christians or muslims. because i remember a muslim woman about a year ago was trying to get the school to allow her sons to pray during class because i guess muslims have to pray 3 times a day or something. This idea might have evolved from that.
peace and equality
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Registered: May 27, 2005
Posts: 9
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I think of myself as rather staunchly opposed to the idea of prayer in public schools. I'm an atheist and I have been in many situations in which everyone around me was praying and they were of course expecting me to do likewise. I feel very awkward in such situations because I feel as if just sitting there and not doing anything would come off as offensive, while I feel that reciting the prayer and playing along with what everyone else is doing is offensive in on more complex level. I feel as it's an insult to their faith and to my own (or lack there of) for me to offer prayers to a deity that I don't believe in. These situations, of course, all came up in private company. If I had to face similar ones every day at school, I honestly don't know what I'd do, but I can say for sure I wouldn't be happy about it.
Now, as for exceptions, I have no objection to school prayer if it's in a non-public school which has some pre-specificed religious affiliation, or if it takes place outside of class time. If some kids decide that they want to get together and say a prayer during lunch, I have no problem with that. I just don't want to be required to say the prayer, or be in the room while everyone else says it (and in my school the ones saying the prayers would be pretty much everyone but me).
I think that including prayer in public school cirrculum not only wastes time but creates undue separation between Christian students and non-Christian ones.
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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Evolution has nothing to do with science. We have yet to discover the missing link Darwin said would prove evolution.
Marine 16 - the man, the myth, the legend
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Registered: March 10, 2005
Posts: 745
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quote: Originally posted by CelticNewAger:
Because it's annoying and wastes time. I wasted at least half an hour a day in school thanks to prayers, and in certain times of the year maybe an hour or two a day. And for what? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
what kind of school do you go to? Because I have never heard of a public school taking an hour or two dedicated to prayer unless it was like National Prayer Day or something of that sort...
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." - James Madison
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Registered: February 02, 2004
Posts: 9212
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quote: Why is it liberals always want children to elarn evolution
Evolution is science. it has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, it's science. "You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore |
Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 9501
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Because it's annoying and wastes time. I wasted at least half an hour a day in school thanks to prayers, and in certain times of the year maybe an hour or two a day. And for what? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
"Regardless, I have always, and will always, succeed."
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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Why is it liberals always want children to elarn evolution, but refuse to allow students to pray in school?
Marine 16 - the man, the myth, the legend
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Registered: February 27, 2003
Posts: 2216
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quote: Originally posted by ilovebush: quote: .... but well, it is always a nice thing if we pray.
Nice for who, jam_18? For the Christians? What about everyone else?
I dont have anything really to say since this is an old board, but you need to remember that not only Christians pray. All religions pray to something, whether it be God or a statue. So dont just say prayer is good for Christians and not other religions...
You're quite right ilovebush, I apologize for that. However, I've yet to hear of a public school reading a non-Christian prayer over the intercom and the point that I was trying to make is that a Christian prayer read over the intercom is only "nice" for Christians.
"I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education." Thomas Jefferson
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Registered: February 02, 2004
Posts: 9212
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So prayer in schools is not an issue. No one should notice you are praying so it doesn't matter. "You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore |
Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 166
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quote: Doing it for the glory of god does not require publicizing your religion. You don't have to tell others you are doing something in the name of god.
Your exactly right, If you are telling someone you are doing it for God your probably just doing it to glorify yourself not him. Check out what Jesus said about it Matthew 6:1-4 1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
When God speaks, reason must be silent. - Martin Luther
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Registered: February 02, 2004
Posts: 9212
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Doing it for the glory of god does not require publicizing your religion. You don't have to tell others you are doing something in the name of god. "You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore |
Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 166
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quote: So you think of nothing but god? If you really wanted to hold true to that statement, you would be involved in no activities that didn't involve praising god.
Like I said i wish i could think of nothing but God. It is possible to praise God in anything you do that he doesn't tell you not to do. It says in 1 Corithians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
When God speaks, reason must be silent. - Martin Luther
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Registered: February 02, 2004
Posts: 9212
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So you think of nothing but god? If you really wanted to hold true to that statement, you would be involved in no activities that didn't involve praising god. The bible is not meant to be taken literally. I take that line to mean that God should never be absent from your life, not to be in constant prayer, just don't be unchristian. "You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore |
Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 166
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quote: So you pray 24-7?
I wish that that were true. I can try, but I will fail because I am not strong enough to, but that won't stop me from trying.
When God speaks, reason must be silent. - Martin Luther
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Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 166
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quote: No, because I have values, proving once and for all that you don't have to be Christian to have values.
(I know this isn't the thread for this but i don't care, we've talked about the other stuff enough) One question, why do you have those values/why do you keep them. If you say your parents, then where did they get them. Where do values/principles/moral etc. come from?
When God speaks, reason must be silent. - Martin Luther
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Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 9501
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quote: For a Christian who stands on the Bible to cease to pray during school would be anithetical to thier beliefs. But praying doesn't require words.
So you pray 24-7?
"Regardless, I have always, and will always, succeed."
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Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 166
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quote: I don't know of any religiont hat says that you must pray during school.
I do. It says in 1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing, or pray continually. For a Christian who stands on the Bible to cease to pray during school would be anithetical to thier beliefs. But praying doesn't require words.
When God speaks, reason must be silent. - Martin Luther
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