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Faith was an avenue to community.

So is violence, sex and drug trafficking. Mind you, faith MIGHT be considered a little more moral at points, but it's not the only thing that creates community.

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Christians that murdered abortionists and gay people in the name of God. It's not an issue of religion or morality.

You are an idiot. Did you even read my post? I said that it creates community. Faith was an avenue to community. Londoners came together as britons as their avenue to community. Community and education are what prevent this evil. I honestly beleive that most politicians and lobbyists across the political spectrum would agree with me on this. Hillary to "W".

You do realize that Christians do bad things too right? In fact, one of the "greatest" bank robbers in America, was raised in a strict Christian environment. She and her husband got away with millions before they were caught. And let's not forget all those crazy Christians that murdered abortionists and gay people in the name of God. It's not an issue of religion or morality. It's human nature to do bad things when the chances of getting caught are low. Even the most devout christians can go bad. Depends on the person and their personality.

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No offense but for the most part, in those areas, there were no televisions to loot.

There were lots of things though. You are afraid to admit that many parts of poor American culture have horrid values. The church communities are poor america's saving grace. They are the worlds saving grace. The people destroyed by the tsunami were by large people of faith, Hindi's and Muslims. The only violence was related to an already conflicting civil war(tamul tigers). I'm not saying that they were stronger because they beleived in god or any such nonsense, but because of their faith they had community and fellowship. In London there was lawfulness.

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That is because the city still had police and lawfulness.

You are right on that but in the midst of a midnight buzz bomb raid, there were no bobbies to guard shops. They were helping in hospitals and manning air watch posts. At night, explosions everywhere, you could have easily looted a shop anonymously. Although they were largely people of faith, the Britons needed only their homeland to create community.

This crime in new orleans is directly related to the cause of peacetime crime rates iin inner city area's. A breakdown of community. I need to make clear that it is only the urban poor areas where I think community is dangerously absent. Although I disagree with many of the Al Sharpton types, we share completely the view that community and education are the silver bullet to crime and ignorance. I have been to very poor towns in mississippi where the population is 99% black and they were dirt poor, but they had a church and community. I felt as surrounded by good values there than I have anywhere else in my life. That is why I made the distinction between urban and non-urban poor.

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Originally posted by riskbreaker86:
London, The Blitz 1940 -- almost the whole city destroyed by intense carpet bombing, lawlessness never set in, despite millions living together in the underground, sheltering together in communal shelters etc. People went to work as normal, german agents reported total shock at the ability of the londoners to go about life normally despite the city lying in ruin.

That is because the city still had police and lawfulness. In New Orleans there was little to no police and nobody was around to see anybody take things.

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Istanbul and Izmit Earthquake, Turkey 1999 - up to 30,000 estimated dead, no major increase in crime, society restored to normal in a short time.

Because of the quick response time.

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Christmas 2005, Asian Tsunami -- loss of life over 200,000, society put on hold, the disaster acting as a means of bringing societies and people together for the common good of helping eachother.

No offense but for the most part, in those areas, there were no televisions to loot.

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Originally posted by FreeMarketLover:

Really? I don't seem to remember looting in NY 9-11.

Firstly because there was masses of police around. Secondly the event was over in a couple of hours. It was far too hard to loot in that situation.

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I don't seem to remember mainstream "civil rights leaders" justifying murder and rape because of a television deficit. Come on now.

During 9/11 there was no rape or murder (on the streets)

a breakdown of society due to whatever circumstances does not always lead to violence etc. There are hundreds of examples of cooperation after disasters, even one of a much bigger scale:

London, The Blitz 1940 -- almost the whole city destroyed by intense carpet bombing, lawlessness never set in, despite millions living together in the underground, sheltering together in communal shelters etc. People went to work as normal, german agents reported total shock at the ability of the londoners to go about life normally despite the city lying in ruin.

Istanbul and Izmit Earthquake, Turkey 1999 - up to 30,000 estimated dead, no major increase in crime, society restored to normal in a short time.

9/11 new york -- this has already been covered

Christmas 2005, Asian Tsunami -- loss of life over 200,000, society put on hold, the disaster acting as a means of bringing societies and people together for the common good of helping eachother.



so why exactly did so much crime occur in new orleans? im not from round there so im wondering if any of you can shed light, what was so unique about this disaster?

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Jesse Jackson was on t.v. the other day saying that "you need to understand how some of these very poor people live on a daily basis, some of these families only have one t.v." ONE TV! OH MY GOSH, SEND IN UNICEF, THEY ONLY HAVE ONE TV!!!!!

Oh my goodness! They're like my family! Sheesh. What pity I have for them... Apparently I'm "very poor"... Can somebody send me money? I'll leave my address available to those that NM me. PLEASE, I NEED YOUR MONEY!

Mrs. Robinson...it was written by Simon and Garfunkel (I just checked). I have a CD, though, where the Beatles sing it. It is an excellent song.

Which one?

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Actually I think that line is from "Mrs. Robinson" by Simon and Garfunkle. Razz

And the Beatles song...I know the lyrics.

Actually I think that line is from "Mrs. Robinson" by Simon and Garfunkle.

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"where have you gone Joe Dimaggio, our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you"

I like the Beatles quote and the Green Day post title. The rape, murder, ect.. are awful acts and inexcusable. However, I don't blame those who steal food. They need it for survival.

Surely this can only be blamed on rap music, MTV, and the growing acceptance of homosexuality.

Seriously though, this is a completely different situation from 9/11 (which should be obvious). We did not see such criminal activity in the aftermath of 9/11 because there was far less of an opportunity for anarchy. We have a whole city flooded, and we have refugees forced to live in close quarters with each other for an indefinite amount of time. Food, water, toilets, means of communication, and authority figures are all sparse.

I'm not saying this justifies rape and murder (or even theft of expensive objects, although I believe theft of food is perfectly reasonable given the circumstances); it just makes them more understandable. What we've learned from this whole ordeal is that when the lights go out and the authority figures vanish, the darker side of human nature emerges. Our leaders have understood this for years; it is why they don't endorse anarchy. It has nothing to do with recent changes in our "values."

Another key difference between this and 9/11 is that 9/11 united all of us against an enemy. You can't exactly wage war or seek revenge against a hurricane, though, so it's only natural that people would channel their anger into especially unhelpful, destructive impulses.

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Until then it's just you saying your opinion

Of course it's just my opinion. hence it not factoring into my argument and all that.

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It was always like this. Cultural values have not diminished.

Really? I don't seem to remember looting in NY 9-11. I don't seem to remember mainstream "civil rights leaders" justifying murder and rape because of a television deficit. Come on now.

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Originally posted by FreeMarketLover:
Hitler would even find it apalling. I'm not using that as a material in my logic, but think about how evil you would have to be for freekin Hitler to look back and think- "that's messed up."

That really is entirely useless until you find the quote of hitler saying that. Until then it's just you saying your opinion.

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It makes me want to cry to think that parts of our American cultural values have deteriorated so much that we produce "people" who could do things like this.

It was always like this. Cultural values have not diminished.