Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13981
|
So the president of Iran recently sent an open letter to the US LinkIf you can actually stomache reading the whole thing what do you think? a legit attempt for some semblance of peace? or complete and total bullshit? I personally have to toss a bullshit flag on this one. zebras and fanatics don't change their stripes
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
|
Registered: February 27, 2003
Posts: 2217
|
I like that version much better amp.
"I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education." Thomas Jefferson
|
Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13981
|
I found a translated version of the President of Iran's letter (diffrent type of translation) quote: [Hey peeps, can I talk to you for a sec? Now I've been thinking about this for a bit. Now first of all, I think you're pretty cool, and I hope you think I'm pretty cool. But frankly, your friend's been pissing me off. The Palistinians are getting shafted pretty bad, guys. I think you should try and help 'em out, because, I mean, if I tried anything you're government would probably go upside my head. But you guys got a chance- you're government will listen to yo-*Cough**Cough* you.]
[Excuse me, don't know where that cough came from.]
[This Iraq invasion thing has been bugging me too. And, I mean, what are you guys getting out of it? It's costin' a buttload of money, ain't it? Shouldn't you be a little more selfish and, like, spend it on free healthcare or something? Or a tax cut. You guys like tax cuts don't you?]
[I get that you want to play with your toys in the sand, but, well, the Iraqi's kinda want their sandbox back. Some of them think that if they piss you off, you'll leave quicker, and I know that ain't the case, but still. Come on. You should probably go home now. You're gonna get sunburned you stay out here much longer.]
[And you guys really shouldn't be letting your leaders trample on your civil rights. I mean, I'm glad you guys decided the Dems should run a few things for a while, but make sure they don't do any more stupid shit- like taking away habeus corpus and stuff. Unless their doing it to zionists; then that's okay. Because, you know, like I said, Israel's being a little bitch to our Palistinian buddies.]
[So we cool? 'Aight. Peace out, much love. Praise Allah.]
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
|
Registered: April 24, 2005
Posts: 872
|
quote: If there's one thing I've learned from history it's that populist goverments tend to fail.
how very true, it becones far too easy for the government to get away with what they wish, check out the Democrat Party ın Turkey between 1950-1960, populism gone wrong! quote: Israel doesn't really need much help.unless all the armies of the middle east rise against them and even then history shows they won't need to much help from us.
israel has succeded before because the Arab states could never fight a coordinated battle, if somehow they could...Israel would be in big trouble. Iran however, is not the nation to lead such a unification, and is therefore not a threat to Israel or to America. They may have sponsored terrorism, but did the US not sponsor the Mujahadeen when the Soviets rolled into Afghanistan? or plot to murder Castro? Iran ıs protecting her interests in the face of a dying US hegemony, in what can only be described as the Chavez Phenomena.
'it's better to have your ministers inside the tent pissing out than outside, pissing in'
|
Registered: March 13, 2002
Posts: 3477
|
quote: Originally posted by speed:
remember you where talking about terrorists. Not industrial powers.
I know. I am saying that in order for terrorism to cease there needs to be a devestating defeat the destroys national/secular pride. If you're going to use violence and not economic/cultural pressures. This can hardly happen when it's David vs. Goliath. David's got nothing to lose, he'll keep fighting a lot longer than Goliath would if he took a pounding. That's why I'm wondering if it's better to let them become a Goliath, then, if the societies are truely incompatable, we can slug it out then.
"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?"
|
Registered: February 05, 2005
Posts: 929
|
remember you where talking about terrorists. Not industrial powers.
If god existed he'd be right winged
|
Registered: March 13, 2002
Posts: 3477
|
quote: Originally posted by speed: quote: Let them become powerful enough and engage them in a large scale ground war between somewhat equal forces, and then firebomb thier cities into the ground. Worked before.
Iluminate me on this subject I seem to live in a diferent reality.
See: Germany Japan What must be done, at least in my view, is to make the population feel that they've lost an equal battle, and then defeat them so utterly that they lose all taste for war. Then you turn on the nice switch.
"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?"
|
Registered: February 05, 2005
Posts: 929
|
quote: Let them become powerful enough and engage them in a large scale ground war between somewhat equal forces, and then firebomb thier cities into the ground. Worked before.
Iluminate me on this subject I seem to live in a diferent reality. All of you fail to account for the fact that Ahmadinejad is nothing more than a populist that has used the unhappyness and insatisfaction of his people to gain power, his hardline attitude is just a mask to mantain support. It's been made quite clear that Iran is incapable of maintaining any sort of large scale military conflict, they lack most of the essential technology, and the economy isn't capable of supporting anything of the sort. Instead of giving validity to unfunded extremist claims like wanting to "obliterate israel", think if Iran is even capable of engaging Israel at all in a direct confrontation. The guy is obviously an extremist asshole, when he won the elections he was all over the news here and I had the chance to read a good bit about him. For one, he renounced to his official car and chaufeur, and instead of moving into the presidential palace he stayed in his apartment. What does this tell us? It brands him with the mark of a populist. If there's one thing I've learned from history it's that populist goverments tend to fail.
If god existed he'd be right winged
|
Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13981
|
quote: we're so pro-Israel we'd still be stuck there...
Israel doesn't really need much help.unless all the armies of the middle east rise against them and even then history shows they won't need to much help from us.
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
|
Registered: February 27, 2003
Posts: 2217
|
quote: Originally posted by ampmaster: quote: How is it that you always manage to say it better than me?
my incredible concetration of good looks, charisma and talent?  Just to mention something I missed I truly like Doc's 1st solution, find alternant energy (cleaner and more efficent to be specific) and no one cares about the mid-east (except for israel's allies but that's a whole different problem)
Ah, that MUST be it.  Ditto on Doc's solutions. We need to find better energy sources anyway. But then seeing as we're so pro-Israel we'd still be stuck there...
"I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education." Thomas Jefferson
|
Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13981
|
quote: How is it that you always manage to say it better than me?
my incredible concetration of good looks, charisma and talent? Just to mention something I missed I truly like Doc's 1st solution, find alternant energy (cleaner and more efficent to be specific) and no one cares about the mid-east (except for israel's allies but that's a whole different problem)
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
|
Registered: February 27, 2003
Posts: 2217
|
*Points at amp* What he said. How is it that you always manage to say it better than me?
"I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education." Thomas Jefferson
|
Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13981
|
reading thorugh the sections you posted especially the one before the Qu'ran verse I think that we shouldn't bother listening to Ahmadinejad until he practices what he preaches quote: The US administration does not accept accountability before any organization, institution or council. The US administration has undermined the credibility of international organizations, particularly the United Nations and its Security Council.
And Iran does? that's news to me. quote: You have heard that the US administration is kidnapping its presumed opponents from across the globe and arbitrarily holding them without trial or any international supervision in horrendous prisons that it has established in various parts of the world.
Right Iran is better because it keeps it's secret prisons on it's own shores quote: Legitimacy and influence reside in sound logic, quest for justice and compassion and empathy for all humanity
So Iran with it's religious fundamentalism which has proven to be illogical time and again, lack of a fair justice system and human right's record that would make some african nations choke shouldn't have any at all quote: the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people has persisted and has even been aggravated.
In Iraq, about one hundred and fifty thousand American soldiers, separated from their families and loved ones, are operating under the command of the current US administration. A substantial number of them have been killed or wounded
No help from Iran and their backing of the insurgency quote: It is possible to govern based on an approach that is distinctly different from one of coercion, force and injustice.
It is possible to sincerely serve and promote common human values, and honesty and compassion.
It is possible to provide welfare and prosperity without tension, threats, imposition or war.
It is possible to lead the world towards the aspired perfection by adhering to unity, monotheism, morality and spirituality and drawing upon the teachings of the Divine Prophets.
Iran does none of the above accept attempt the fourth but it does it by breaking the other three more... quote:
We all condemn terrorism, because its victims are the innocent.
Right so they think the terrorists are bad... but they fund them, train them, and arm them any way? quote: Is it not possible to put wealth and power in the service of peace, stability, prosperity and the happiness of all peoples through a commitment to justice and respect for the rights of all nations, instead of aggression and war?
Heres a novel concept, Iran should give it a try (Well all nations, the US included should try do that as much as possible)
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
|
Registered: February 27, 2003
Posts: 2217
|
quote: Originally posted by ampmaster:
I'm pretty sure "removing israel from the face of the earth" was his short term goal and that his long term goal replaced "israel" with "america"
Well, you're probably right at that. I do think the guy has a screw loose, I mean look how Hitler started out. Speed, I'm sure some parts of the letter are fine and valid. Ever heard the expression "The Devil can quote scripture for his purposes."? Now don't jump down my throat here, I'm not saying he's the devil, I'm saying that just cause the guy's publicly said appalling things doesn't mean he can't say the right thing every once in a while. What we're getting at is whether or not he really wants to compromise and have peace.
"I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education." Thomas Jefferson
|
Registered: March 13, 2002
Posts: 3477
|
Speed: Your post there would be all well and good except for the fact that Iran is a huge supporter of Iraqi insurgent groups. Not to mention Hezzbollah. Ahmehinajad tells us that Iraq's infrastructure and people are being destroyed and suffering. Last I checked, it wasn't US forces blowing up pipelines and burning mosques. It's the insurgents that fight against the development of Iraq, not the US. And the fact that Ahmehinijad is supporting these insurgents makes this letter a huge farce. He doesn't want the Iraqi people to be "free from US oppression". He wants them under an Iranian influenced government. quote: But, can terrorism be contained and eradicated through war, destruction and the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocents?
If that were possible, then why has the problem not been resolved?
Sure, you want to know how we'll end up stopping terrorism in the Middle East? Two solutions: One, let oil become useless or run out. Then the region will fall back into abject poverty and become irrelevent to the world stage, like parts of Africa. Two: Let them become powerful enough and engage them in a large scale ground war between somewhat equal forces, and then firebomb thier cities into the ground. Worked before.
"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?"
|
Registered: February 05, 2005
Posts: 929
|
ampmaster: quote: You have heard that the US administration is kidnapping its presumed opponents from across the globe and arbitrarily holding them without trial or any international supervision in horrendous prisons that it has established in various parts of the world. God knows who these detainees actually are, and what terrible fate awaits them.
You have certainly heard the sad stories of the Guantanamo and Abu-Ghraib prisons. The US administration attempts to justify them through its proclaimed "war on terror." But every one knows that such behavior, in fact, offends global public opinion, exacerbates resentment and thereby spreads terrorism, and tarnishes the US image and its credibility among nations.
True quote: The US administration does not accept accountability before any organization, institution or council. The US administration has undermined the credibility of international organizations, particularly the United Nations and its Security Council. But, I do not intend to address all the challenges and calamities in this message.
The legitimacy, power and influence of a government do not emanate from its arsenals of tanks, fighter aircrafts, missiles or nuclear weapons. Legitimacy and influence reside in sound logic, quest for justice and compassion and empathy for all humanity. The global position of the United States is in all probability weakened because the administration has continued to resort to force, to conceal the truth, and to mislead the American people about its policies and practices.
True quote: Let's take a look at Iraq. Since the commencement of the US military presence in Iraq, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, maimed or displaced. Terrorism in Iraq has grown exponentially. With the presence of the US military in Iraq, nothing has been done to rebuild the ruins, to restore the infrastructure or to alleviate poverty. The US Government used the pretext of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but later it became clear that that was just a lie and a deception.
Although Saddam was overthrown and people are happy about his departure, the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people has persisted and has even been aggravated.
In Iraq, about one hundred and fifty thousand American soldiers, separated from their families and loved ones, are operating under the command of the current US administration. A substantial number of them have been killed or wounded and their presence in Iraq has tarnished the image of the American people and government.
Their mothers and relatives have, on numerous occasions, displayed their discontent with the presence of their sons and daughters in a land thousands of miles away from US shores. American soldiers often wonder why they have been sent to Iraq.
I consider it extremely unlikely that you, the American people, consent to the billions of dollars of annual expenditure from your treasury for this military misadventure.
True quote: The United States has had many administrations; some who have left a positive legacy, and others that are neither remembered fondly by the American people nor by other nations.
Now that you control an important branch of the US Government, you will also be held to account by the people and by history.
If the US Government meets the current domestic and external challenges with an approach based on truth and Justice, it can remedy some of the past afflictions and alleviate some of the global resentment and hatred of America. But if the approach remains the same, it would not be unexpected that the American people would similarly reject the new electoral winners, although the recent elections, rather than reflecting a victory, in reality point to the failure of the current administration's policies. These issues had been extensively dealt with in my letter to President Bush earlier this year.
True quote: It is possible to govern based on an approach that is distinctly different from one of coercion, force and injustice.
It is possible to sincerely serve and promote common human values, and honesty and compassion.
It is possible to provide welfare and prosperity without tension, threats, imposition or war.
It is possible to lead the world towards the aspired perfection by adhering to unity, monotheism, morality and spirituality and drawing upon the teachings of the Divine Prophets.
True I'd also like to point out some questions aked in the letter: quote: Is there not a better approach to governance?
Is it not possible to put wealth and power in the service of peace, stability, prosperity and the happiness of all peoples through a commitment to justice and respect for the rights of all nations, instead of aggression and war?
We all condemn terrorism, because its victims are the innocent.
But, can terrorism be contained and eradicated through war, destruction and the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocents?
If that were possible, then why has the problem not been resolved?
As a final word, it would be interesting to note that he quotes the Qu'ran, but the quote itself is virtually the same as anything that could be found in the Bible: quote: "But those who repent, have faith and do good may receive Salvation. Your Lord, alone, creates and chooses as He will, and others have no part in His choice; Glorified is God and Exalted above any partners they ascribe to Him." (28:67-68)
Before anyone say's something foolish, I'd like to make clear that I do not appreciate Ahmadinejad, he is a known fundamentalist, but he states many truth's worth giving due value in his letter, and I believe it is only fair to examine them with objectivity.
If god existed he'd be right winged
|
Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13981
|
I'm pretty sure "removing israel from the face of the earth" was his short term goal and that his long term goal replaced "israel" with "america"
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
|
Registered: February 27, 2003
Posts: 2217
|
quote: Originally posted by ampmaster: quote: the Jews out of Israel
nope to qoute the man himself "whiped from the face of the earth" he doesn't want them out he wants them (the jewish people) obliterated
Well as a short term goal I think he'd settle for out of Israel. Good point though...
"I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education." Thomas Jefferson
|
Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13981
|
quote: the Jews out of Israel
nope to qoute the man himself "whiped from the face of the earth" he doesn't want them out he wants them (the jewish people) obliterated
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
|
|
