What are people's views on this guy. I've read some things about him and he seems revelutionary, the next JFK possibly!
What are your views on Obama?
Do you think it is the right time for a black president?
What do you think about the next presidency being between a woman (Hillary Clinton) and a black man, who's name brings up memories of America's two biggest enemies?

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lol, you're so informed.

This is just general information a person picks up living here, but thanks anyway.

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I still wouldn't want to live in the middle east.

Very understandable. Even Arabs, especially Lebanese, emmigrate to Western countries and only return for summer vacation every now and then. They say the Lebanese population in Brazil is 4 times that in Lebanon. Im not sure how accurate that is though.

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Mainly because of my nationality. I'd feel ashamed and awkward.

People here tend to be really kind to westerners. I guess they try to give good impressions and show that they're not terrorists haha. Also most people realize that the US gov. and the US people are two seperate entities. Besides with your views you get along just fine haha.

lol, you're so informed.


I still wouldn't want to live in the middle east.

Mainly because of my nationality. I'd feel ashamed and awkward.

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Is it or is it not true that by law in Saudi Arabia women have to wear the hijab thing or else they will be publicly beaten?

No women are not forced to wear the hijab throughout the middle east. The Hijab is a religious decision a girl or women is free to make on her own.

As for Saudi Arabia, women are obliged to wear a black gown called the 'Abaya. Some areas are less as strict as others but generally throughout Saudi Arabia women are obliged to wear the 'Abaya in public areas. The origin of the 'Abaya, i believe, was as protection from the strong sunrays in the deserts of Saudi Arabia. I guess it became part of culture that the Saud interpretation of Islam made obligatory. But like i said reforms are in process and their are Saudi Arabian organizations trying to make the 'Abaya optional and not obligatory.

As for being publically beaten, thats not true. Along time ago the Meta'wa (sort of like a religious police) had the authority to use physical force but that wasnt just against women it was against both men and women. However now the Meta'wa has lost that authority and can only ask and try to persuade people to follow religious laws and customs. And as time goes by, the Meta'wa is loosing more and more authority.

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is it or is it not true that if a women is raped in some middle eastern countries she is punished or else she needs three male witnesses to vouch for her?

Also not true. Women are not punished anywhere in the middle east for being raped. The incident you are thinking of i believe might be of the women that was raped last year in Saudi Arabia. She was raped and went to court to seek justice. During the course of the trial she took her story to the media. She was sentenced to punishment because she went to the media and revealed facts about a case, a sensitive case, to the public and international press, not becuase she was raped. However this caused a huge controversy and her lawyer placed his liscence on the line. The lawyer was also either part of, or strongly supported by a Pro-womens right saudi arabian organization. I dont know what happened afterwards though i didnt keep up with the story but i dont believe she was punished.

Ofcourse there are a career women haha! What you think Middle Eastern women just sit at home all day. We got women senators, ministers, professors, doctors, business women, lawyers, engineers, movie and tv shows directors.

To answer your question. Saudi Arabia is the strictest on women but reforms are in the process and like i said the pace accelarating. I believe the second strictest country is Iran but its not an Arab state and i honestly dont know much about it when it comes to lifestyle and im not gonna make false claims.

Yes haha, i know American women aren't sluts i was just trying to make a point.

Did I ever say democrats are right about everything? I just said that republicans do not know how to run a country because they are more interested in the individual rather than the nation as a whole. How can one run a country only thinking about the individual. Things just can't continue to operate like that.

no I do not agree with everything that the democratic party says but I believe it is far more logical than what comes out of the republican party.

I disagree with the bank bailouts but I believe Obama has done a damn fine job with the new 10 year budget and his green views. I am also not a supporter of torture (I believe that hate will only spawn more hate) which is another reason for me to like Obama. I am thirdly pleased with him approving stem cell research as it should help make the cure for cancer closer to our grasp.

I really wish you would stop assuming things about my person simply because I say that Obama is a good president and knows what he's doing. I'm also sorry you assume I'm a crazy liberal just because I think republicans are liars and theives.

I do wish there were more parties in our nation. And instead of one president we elect say four people from four different parties and they will be our executive branch.

lol, why do you put words in people's mouths silly goose? I said nasa should be given more money than a business because how is Nasa going to make money? A business in our society has a way to produce income to keep it going, our space program is non-profit so obviously it should be given more money than a business. lol, maybe we should start offering tickets into space like the russians.

How am I not providing any basis for what I am saying. You come on with just as little evidence I have given.

I'd still like to see the video where Obama says he hates America and expresses a desire for every nation to be islamic. lolz

Heh you just read the colored parts didn't ya?

Here's the stimulus info I got http://www.propublica.org/spec...led-list-of-spending
Enjoy.
The big point is, not a lot is going towards smart spending. Now if you wanna blindly support whatever democrats are doing, that's fine, but don't act like you are doing it because you are well informed.

The fact you think a whole party is completely wrong on everything and democrats are right about everything is laughable. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone so partisan... except for radio talk shows. The fact someone really buys all the swill of one party just floors me completely.

I said Osama (bin Laden) not Obama. That's because I was talking about what you were saying with terrorists. Big difference.

Hmm I'm gunna go ahead and do this:

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Smart spending includes changing bank infastructure so this will stop. Smart spending is putting money into the mortgage industry so home values will increase. Smart spending is bailing out a company (even though it did give .1 % of the money to the top level employees) that is an international giant because otherwise many countries will be detrimentally affected We have to spend our money correctly if we want to fix any of this.

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nasa should get more money than businesses because this is a capitalist society.

Soo smart spending for the stimulus would be giving it to NASA, not businesses?

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Not every dictator is 'evil.'

True true history is full of... wonderful dictators...that have proven to be better than our republic (not democracy, that's a buzzword.)
In any case, those who aren't evil we aren't worried about negotiating with.

"Americans are bad at science"
I read scientific papers all the time which are published in America. In fact, we're one of the few nations that funds non-applicable research (research without a company/direct application proven. Science for the sake of progress etc.) which leads to many discoveries world wide. We also have one of the best cancer research centers in the world and we have the CDC which is very sophisticated...of course we're not the only ones publishing research constantly but we are fair from being bad at it...

But you're not interested in knowing this are you?

Anyways I'm done replying to your posts seeing as I feel like anyone reading these ideas objectively will get the picture and if you don't want to provide any basis for what you are saying, then I don't have anything to gain from this either.
Good luck.

(If you hate posting, why have you done it 1000+ times according to your logo?

well seeing as how yn is stupid and is refusing to allow me to edit my last post I'm just going to have to double post. ,-_-,

Someguy- Is it or is it not true that by law in Saudi Arabia women have to wear the hijab thing or else they will be publicly beaten?

is it or is it not true that if a women is raped in some middle eastern countries she is punished or else she needs three male witnesses to vouch for her?

These are some of the things that I have heard on the news lol.

However, I am confused because I have also seen a lot of middle eastern career women. Is it a law for them to wear head scarves?

I don't know. What I am trying to ask is what countries are sexist towards women?

Lol, American women aren't sluts. We have a nice little double standard here where all of the men just want one thing but then when the female gives that to them they are then labeled "whore."

You forgot that Americans are fat, lazy slobs who are bad at math and science and like to shoot shotguns and get intoxicated all the time.

lol, god i love my country.

i hate posting.

So we gave only 800 million to businesses... which is why aig recieved 178 billion dollars...

so can I see some links to your 'facts?'

I don't think you understand what the US has done to these islamic countries.

I'm not going to explain it either because I've already stated these things in other posts.

Okay so Obama voted like a democrat. That doesn't mean he's a complete crazy liberal. It's only because republicans generally have no idea how to run a country because they think about the individual's interests rather than the whole country at hand. Wow that will really improve the general well being of our nation.

lol, I'd love to see that video where obama says he 'hates' america and believes every nation should be islamic.

nasa should get more money than businesses because this is a capitalist society. duh. ooh i bet you're a socialist. lollzz

All I care about is that Obama is the best choice for this country which is why he is now president.

lol, so Obama is an extreme liberal who is against homosexuality?

Not every dictator is 'evil.'

god i hate this whole "democracy is the best" mentality that has been brainwashed into American minds.

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Well, maybe not the 'country'

There's a big difference between saying you're at war with a country (meaning a government, a nation, an enitre people) and with local extremists that seized power during the attack on Saddam. Local extremists, if i may point out, that have done more harm to Iraqi citizens then to US citizens or soldiers, and local extremists whom the newly established Iraqi gov is battling. Its pretty offensive to group the Iraqi citizens with the local extremists under one label.

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but I've always been under the impression that the general area of the Middle East simply classify's women as second-class citizens.
And I know there is a media bias, but I've seen on the news stories of women and girls being attacked on their way to school by men who believe they have no rights to education. I've also heard stories of women being beaten to death for minor offenses, and being killed by their husbands, who suffer no consequences.
I'll try to find the links to a few of these stories, I might be wrong...

I cant blame you for being under this impression because after all you live in the US. But i do blame you for just accepting this impression for granted and not questioning it.

You say there is media bais but then you use the bais yourself as evidence of women being abused. These news stories are the bais. Did you ever wonder why you never see good stories about the way women are treated in the Middle east, or for the hell of it any good stories concerning an Arab or anything that has 2 do with the middle east. Please find me the stories. I bet the stories are of incidents that take place in remote backwards villages in the middle of nowhere. Girls being attacked for getting an education? Thats ridiculous! As for the women being beaten to death stories i repeat my point that it does not apply to the general people, its probably some bedioun in the middle of the desert.

Allow me to make my point clearer by using your method of understanding a region and a people to understand the citizens of the US. I can just as easily claim that all Americans are rapists, drug dealers, gang members, and have a lust for shooting up their classmates. I can also say that all women in the US are sluts. My first claim came from the usual news reports. My second came from generalizing all the women in the US based on Paris Hilton and Britney Spears. What else can i say, all preists in the US are pedophilers. I think i've made it clear enough. Feel free to add to the list, im sure Wolfie can help me out hahah.

As for the way women are treated in the Middle East. They are not treated as second-class citizens. There might be some unfair issues concerning the law here and there, for example a women in Lebanon cannot give her children her Lebanese citizenship, only a man can. But that is due to political reasons and mainly Christian paranoia and not becuase of sexist reasons. But reforms are taking place. They just need time, it doesnt happen over night.

Another point is that most of this impression you have comes from the KSA, which is just one nation that doesnt represent the rest of the region. But even in Riyadh reform is taking place and the pace is accelerating. There are serveral Saudi Arabian Womens Right Organization advocating reform. Just a few months ago a women was appointed to a governmental position for the first time in the KSA. I posted this a while back on another thread.

Alright i've gone on for far to long,..

While it is usually against my better judgment to reply to someone who's ideas are clear generalizations (irony) and lack the use of facts, I'll go ahead and address some things you said. It'll be a fun endeavor for me to prove some of my ideas

1st of all, I have no idea why you are so stuck on Obama being moderate. Despite your lack of addressing my points of him being very liberal (stacking only party members, his ideologies etc.) you still insist that informed people call him moderate with no backing of this. You even act like it's weird that I suggest he's anything but moderate democrat. So, anyways according to the ADA, which gives a rating of each senators a lifetime "liberal rating" based off of their votes. A moderate would be somewhere 50%. Obama is around 90% which is the average for the democratic party. His conservative rating was a ~7%. This is a party-neutral system to determine where on the spectrum someone falls.
Does that seem very moderate to you?

Now if you can give me SOME evidence behind your belief that he is moderate, then I would at least be satisfied that this idea is founded. Otherwise, please don't bring it up again.

As far as economics goes: I don't see too much difference between what you are saying and what I am saying. I am and have always been against Bush's spending policies.

The difference lies in the stimulus plan. Of course you realize that this plan is over 1000 pages and it was finished the week the vote was to take place (I think it may have been the day before but I'm not sure.) One senator even pointed out that no one could have possibly read the entire thing. Seeing as this is spending 787 billion dollars, one of the biggest packages put together in history, do you think this is a good idea?
Aside from that, here's the meat. What you define as smart spending I agree with. Obama doesn't with this package, only 800 million or so is going to business. This may sound like a lot, but it's only 2% of what's going into welfare programs. NASA is getting more money than businesses are. That's my point.
While I'm not a proponent of trickle down theory,it should be noted this is not McCain's idea. It's been around since the late 1800s (called sparrow and horse...can't remember why)In any case, the idea isn't to give money to the top. It's to give them more deductions for investments (which stimulate economy) and charitable donations. Obviously, it would be terrible to just give money to the top, but making investment less risky (because it can save money on taxes) will help encourage those that have money to use it to create jobs. Much different then the way you explained it.

As far as terrorist being diplomatic, I wish I had the space to explain this one, so I'll keep it simple, let you tell me I'm wrong so I can respond to it in more depth another time. In essence 1) Terrorists don't come sit down in the embassy. They don't want to be public, mainly for fear of being prosecuted for terrorism. This makes it hard to establish any communication. And saying "We'll forgive you for the bombings, we just wanna talk" would be an upset of justice to those who were killed by them.
Besides, Osama has made it clear in his video several years ago that he wants all nations to be worshipers of Islam (really just like the way Afghanistan was because that was the only Muslim state to him.) and he hates America because of their support for Israel and homosexuality. There are other things too but I think I've made my point.

Now if you're talking about Dictators, rather then terrorists, then I'll go ahead and refer to you a history book to see how negotiations with Hitler, Stalin, Hussein and Kim have gone. If you need more details go ahead and say dictators have a track record of being very open and hospitable to new ideas and compromise.

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oh because that's what you saw on Fox news right?

Don't even like Fox news. I prefer to research on my own with several articles with several opinions. That's what makes my opinions mine.

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Maybe if the US didn't treat the rest of the world like its 'underlings' for the past 50 years people would hate us less

I'll go ahead and ignore this. It's a friggin long post as is.

So there ya have it. Not only have I discussed what I believe but gave solid facts to base it on.
What do you have?

Also, out of curiosity, what are you even studying in college? You seem to have strong political ideals, but it doesn't seem like you are studying political science.

*Edited for colors. Makes it seem more lively and easier to read doncha think?

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Originally posted by SomeGuy:

quote:

we are at war with a country that has no respect for women

What country is that? Iraq? The US is not at war with Iraq. US forces and Iraqi forces are working together. The US is at war with extremists and fundamentalists that were able to gain power during this civil war. As for the respect for women. What backing do you have for that claim? That is completely untrue.

Well, maybe not the 'country', but I've always been under the impression that the general area of the Middle East simply classify's women as second-class citizens.
And I know there is a media bias, but I've seen on the news stories of women and girls being attacked on their way to school by men who believe they have no rights to education. I've also heard stories of women being beaten to death for minor offenses, and being killed by their husbands, who suffer no consequences.
I'll try to find the links to a few of these stories, I might be wrong...

Obama is a moderate democrat, this is what republicans and democrats are saying... so I don't really know what planet you live on...

Bush did help to ruin the economy along with the past adminstrations and congress and the American people. I don't think you understand the difference between 'smart' spending and 'frivolous spending.' It is frivolous for a bank to give thousands of people loans and 2nd mortgages to people who have a credit score of 302. It is frivolous to spend money on a war that isn't going to bring any money back to us. It is frivolous to max out a credit card and than use another credit card to pay off the debt. Smart spending includes changing bank infastructure so this will stop. Smart spending is putting money into the mortgage industry so home values will increase. Smart spending is bailing out a company (even though it did give .1 % of the money to the top level employees) that is an international giant because otherwise many countries will be detrimentally affected (lol aig).

We have to spend our money correctly if we want to fix any of this.

Hey at least Obama's ideas are better than McCain's whole "give the money to the top and then it would trickle down." bs.

all of this crap started when the government removed regulations implemented during the great depression. maybe we should have kept those there.

how do you know terrorists aren't diplomatic? oh because that's what you saw on Fox news right?

Maybe if the US didn't treat the rest of the world like its 'underlings' for the past 50 years people would hate us less.

Besides we're the ones with the poor diplomancy.

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we are at war with a country that has no respect for women

What country is that? Iraq? The US is not at war with Iraq. US forces and Iraqi forces are working together. The US is at war with extremists and fundamentalists that were able to gain power during this civil war. As for the respect for women. What backing do you have for that claim? That is completely untrue.

These might be small mistakes your making Hoopdawg, which i dont blame you for, that dont seem like much but they go a long way and they say a lot about the general concepts the majority of US citizens have.

quote:

The rest of the post was some kind of sleep-deprived coma speak where i tried to make a point using a metaphor i didn't believe or even understand.

No problem. Besides i came off a bit aggresively.

"obama is actually considered a very moderate democrat."
By who?!?! Nobody really informed believes this. Lemme clear this up right now: He takes the party line on all his views. Everyone is in cabinet is liberal. Even his faith adviser hates the pope and is for gay marriage. What on earth is remotely conservative about him?

"also, if we want to rebuild the economy (which we unfortunately have to do) we need to spend something."
This is what I was talking about in my other post, you only support this bill because a democrat proposed it. I haven't searched your other posts, but I'm sure you have stated that Bush has ruined this economy (technically congress did, but he pushed for it.). What he did to ruin the economy was needless spending. That is what Obama is doing now. Do you know where the money in Obama's proposal is going? Much of it is pork barreling (look it up if you don't know the definition.) and in government programs (Most of which are not planned on generating jobs. They are there for welfare.) and on research grants (also have no real economic value).

It is true you have to spend some to get economy back on track, however this spending would include giving tax breaks to businesses and investment, this money would allow for more jobs and increase production. Obama has little plans to spend money in this direction.


Now for something you said I found to be interesting:

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I really am ashamed of my fellow Americans. When I go to a foreign country I think I'll lie about my nationality so they won't think I'm some fat, ignorant asshole."

No one is forcing you to stay here.There are hundreds of other countries you could go to if you don't like this one.

"

We need to stop this war. All it's doing is fueling more hatred. If we want to uncover and/or stop terrorist plots we need to practice our diplomatic skillz.[/quote]"
First of all, loved that you spelled skills with a z. Secondly, terrorist don't have a good track record of diplomacy working. It would be a waste of time for me to go through a history lecture (past and recent) of how people/nations who resort to violence take advantage of those who don't fight back.

In short, don't embrace all the ideals the democratic party throws at you. You'll find yourself open to solutions rather than blaming problems.

wow, you live under a rock.

obama is actually considered a very moderate democrat.

also, if we want to rebuild the economy (which we unfortunately have to do) we need to spend something.

why do people hate spending money in order to improve their country? are we so greedy that we care only for ourselves and we completely disregard our fellow countrymen? Whatever happened to promoting the general welfare or providing for ourselves AND our posterity?

Here's what I make of Obama:

I think he's about as liberal as they come. Most of his voters have no idea what he's for except change. I think it's weird how Democrats criticize Bush for making the federal budget go into deficit (as they should) but then they think it's great for Obama to push for plans that further increase government spending.

I also think it's time for us to get off the whole "OMG we have a black president!" thing And move onto his ideas.

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Originally posted by Hoopdawg08:
The war is stupid, and should have ended already, but I believe that while this godforsaken war continues we shouldn't have a president that will evoke no respect from the enemy.

no matter how innocent, persecuted, or gentle that enemy may or may not be.

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Originally posted by SomeGuy:

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'terrorists' are plotting our destruction

What is it with this paranoia? Hoopdawg can u find me evidence and valid basis for that statement?

no... that's why terrorists is in those little quotations, i don't think terrorist exsist in the form the us government forces on us

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Have you not read any of my posts...all i seem to be doing is repeat my posts over and over, and yet nobody seems to want to listen.

honestly, no. i don't like to read what im arguing about before i argue. im more of a 'dash in blindly' type of person.

Look, the whole point of my post is that we are at war with a country that has no respect for women. And, although those rednecks alixx spoke of disrespect, and even hate, Obama we are not fighting them. The war is stupid, and should have ended already, but I believe that while this godforsaken war continues we shouldn't have a president that will evoke no respect from the enemy.

The rest of the post was some kind of sleep-deprived coma speak where i tried to make a point using a metaphor i didn't believe or even understand. Does that make any sense?

btw- it's like 2am so i don't even know if im typing in english. excuse whatever spelling or grammatical or logical mistakes i've made. lqtms

The only reason they hate us so much is because of all the shit we've done to them.

We shot down an Iranian civilian plane, killing 290 people, and when asked for an apology this is what then president Bush Senior said "I will never apoligize for America. I don't care what the evidence is."

Seriously does it come as a surprise that many countries dislike us? Because it really shouldn't be much of a shocker.

lol, someguy, i listen. it's okay.

I really am ashamed of my fellow Americans. When I go to a foreign country I think I'll lie about my nationality so they won't think I'm some fat, ignorant asshole.

We need to stop this war. All it's doing is fueling more hatred. If we want to uncover and/or stop terrorist plots we need to practice our diplomatic skillz.

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'terrorists' are plotting our destruction

What is it with this paranoia? Hoopdawg can u find me evidence and valid basis for that statement?

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they already dislike the way we live, they bombed us for it because we are heretical infidels.

Wrong. They dont dislike the way u live. Do you honestly believe somebody will sacrifice they're life and start a huge organization just because they dislike the way you live. Whats so special about they way u live? Can u please tell me what you believe they dislike about your lifestyle? If you think its democracy than your still wrong becuase they couldnt care less about democracy.

Lets get this straight. Bin Ladin attacked the twin towers not becuase he and his followers didnt like the way u live. Bin ladin, was first created and blindly financed by the US during the end of the cold war. Afterwards, he attacked the twin towers because of the US's unfair, hyprocritical, and unconditional support for Israel. He stated so himself. It does not justify his attacks or his organization. He claimed he was defending the palestinians, but if you ask any palestinian on the street he/she will say that they dont need Osama, that they condemn his monstrous attacks, and that he should find another banner to carry out his acts under.

The point is the US was attacked due to its foreign policy. But the American people were passively brainwashed to believe that they're being attacked just for being free citizens in a democratic all-good country. That is why you come out posting that terrorist want to kill you just for the heck of it, just because your "infidels". Its due to these reasons, this ignorance, that hate for the US is growing.

Have you not read any of my posts...all i seem to be doing is repeat my posts over and over, and yet nobody seems to want to listen.