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Thats why I don't support mandatory voting.

Congrats, niether does anybody else.

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I already said that you cannot adequately discuss policy in 20 second snippets.

So explain his lack of policy in debates.

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Originally posted by FreeMarketLover:
I already said that you cannot adequately discuss policy in 20 second snippets. People forming opinions on policy from those sound bites are going to form misguided ones.

While I agree with this, Obama's vaugeness goes beyond just 20 second snippets.

His website is only *slightly* more detailed than his speeches. And I've listened to a few of his speeches in entirity, and they're just a bunch of "insprirational fluff".

I mean, for example, even on his website his plan for immigration reform doesn't go much beyond "We'll secure the border, reform the beraucracy, and provide 'hope for families'". Light on substance.

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By this logic about 95% of the voting population are idiots.

Not 95% but, yeah many to most are idiots. Thats why I don't support mandatory voting.

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I guess things like having a job that takes up time so you can't sift trough oodles of information

In Rome, one of the reasons only the patricians were afforded political rights was that it was thought only people with the kind of time their class had to devote to the polis could fulfill the responsibility of political activity. That was shown to be untrue in modern republics because people have been willing to make time for the democratic imperative to be thorough and well educated.

I already said that you cannot adequately discuss policy in 20 second snippets. People forming opinions on policy from those sound bites are going to form misguided ones.

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If you are such a lazy voter that you haven't read your candidates policy provisions, than you are an idiot.

Ha. This is absurd to the point where I am attempted to not even respond. By this logic about 95% of the voting population are idiots. Yeah, I guess things like having a job that takes up time so you can't sift trough oodles of information to determine what a candidate stands for makes you an idiot. Give me a break.

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By Hillary talking policy rather than talking about the moral foundation of her leadership, she is assuming (correctly) a laziness among her supporters. Issues cannot be adequately discussed in twenty second sound bites, only convoluted.

Oh yeah, because there is a lot of substance to what politicians put on their campaign web pages. Obama does not talk about his policies because he fears can not stack up to Hillary Clinton, pure and simple. Its a legitimate strategy as he calls the voters attention to things other than his policies. He is not doing it because he is morally superior to other candidates. He is doing it because it presents him with the best chance to win. I hope you haven't put much stock in the idea that Obama isn't discussing policy because he is too intellectual to discuss it on television.

I am shocked an intelectual like yourself has fallen for such a common political "trick".

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you haven't read your candidates policy provisions

He's not my candidate.

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I don't even know what he stands for and niether do any of his supporters it seems

If you are such a lazy voter that you haven't read your candidates policy provisions, than you are an idiot. By Hillary talking policy rather than talking about the moral foundation of her leadership, she is assuming (correctly) a laziness among her supporters. Issues cannot be adequately discussed in twenty second sound bites, only convoluted.

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I still think I'm going to vote Libertarian, though.

Have fun throwing your vote away.

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I find him increadibly naive. He's not the next JFK, he's the next Jimmy Carter. And forgien policy challanges, as well as our growing national debt, are going to slap him in the face if he ever gets elected.

Absolutely right. I don't even know what he stands for and niether do any of his supporters it seems. "Hope and change" do fix problems. Policy does. I don't just want a leader with rhetoric, I want a fixer with real solutions and policy opinions. Three years in the senate doesn't qualify you for much.

Everytime I hear this guy speak my teeth set on edge. Barack spends most of his time talking about inspriational fluff rather than hard facts or concepts.

I find him increadibly naive. He's not the next JFK, he's the next Jimmy Carter. And forgien policy challanges, as well as our growing national debt, are going to slap him in the face if he ever gets elected.

Hands down Barack Obama for '08. He understands what the country is going through right now and has great ideas on how to fix it. I've been watching the debates and get enthused to hear him talk about the policies he has and what he wants to do with the presidency. Imagine...President Barack Obama & Vice-President Hillary Clinton. It's amazing how far our country has come in such a short amount of time.

I'm not even going to get into McCain or Romney because frankly, neither of them stand a chance against a victor from the Democratic party. It's inevitable that the Democrats will take the presidency. Now it's only a matter of whether it's Clinton or Obama.

Basically it's like a choice between the Dean of your school or the new Arts professor.

The Dean has the most experience. The Dean's been in the game for a long time, and she feels like she knows how to remedy situations. But because of this, the Dean's also jaded. She'll remedy situations the only way she knows how. She won't listen to other opinions. It's her way or the highway. After all, she's got the most experience. She knows what she's doing. Spending too much time in the game also means that she's jaded--she already has an outlook that has been built upon over time by years of service. She can't find it in herself to execute change because the very foundation she stands upon is constancy, routine and rigidity.
The Dean doe sher job not because she loves it. She doesn't do it because she cares. She does it because it's all she knows. She can't do anything else.

On the other hand, the new arts professor is a rookie. He's got experience, but only a little. He's new, so we're a little wary of him. But because he's new, he also deserves the benefit of the doubt. He has ideas, and he has a new outlook. He hasn't been in the university for a long time, but he brings a different point of view. He sees problems that veterans don't see and can find solutions that veterans won't dare to implement because they don't want to stray from the norm. The Arts professor is jeered by the veterans because it seems he's idealistic and unrealistic. They say he should be ashamed of giving his students false hope. But what's wrong with hope? Hope is what the students need. They need someone who will be scared with them, and tell them that we will stand together and face whatever obstacle is going to come. The students don't need someone who will tell them to keep their mouths shut and leave the work to the adults.

Some analogies I can find: from the movie Election by Alexander Payne: Hillary Clinton is Tracy Flick and Barack Obama is Paul Metzler. If you're thinking Harry Potter, Obama is Harry and Clinton is Hermione.

So I'm for Obama. Because although Hermione has good intentions, a track record that's to die for and she's book-smart, Harry has a good heart, a fresh outlook, and he's street-smart.

I'm finding it's a toss-up for me between Barrack Obama and Ron Paul.

I never expected to like Ron Paul when I heard he was a Republican, but he's a lot more liberal than I thought he would be.

9/11 was six freakin' years ago. Giuliani needs to realize that no one cares that he was mayor of New York when it happened. What kind of qualification is that anyways?

I still think I'm going to vote Libertarian, though.

I'd vote for Hillary. Simply because I don't feel like Obama has enough experience. Sure, Hillary's a cold biatch, and Obama seems like a great guy. But, if I'm not mistaken, a lot of people voted for Bush because he was a guy that people could "have a beer with." And look how that turned out.

I don't buy into the image bull. And I don't buy into the whole "idealistic" message either. I like to be realistic, and that's why I'd vote for Hillary.

And there's no way a Clinton/Obama ticket or an Obama/Clinton ticket will exist.

And Giulani? Seriously?? This is him:

Q: What's your health care plan?
A: September 11!
Q: What do you plan to do about troops in Iraq?
A: September 11!
Q: What did you do last Sunday?
A: September 11!

I'm with President Carter when I say that I [I]really[/] don't want him to be our next President.

I love Obama but I do see some flaws in him. He doesn't seem to have a strong enough personality to be our president. He would need a lot of help which is why I wish him and Hilary were on the same team. I think together they could really change America. He comes off as a little inexperienced at times and I'm afraid that this will prove detrimental to him if he were to enter office at a time where so much is going on in this country. But i would be really happy if he won.

Found this topic about late. Anyway,

I love Obama, personally. He focuses a lot on the people of the United States. I know that foreign affairs are a big deal, but it's not as if we don't exist, you know?

I don't get why everyone is like, "WOAH A BLACK GUY". I mean, he's just a politician. I'm not surprised. Racism is still alive and, unfortunately, well. But we are a progressive nation.

Obama is great because it's not like he's the lesser of two evils. He's a good candidate. My only issue with him is that he promised civil unions and not same sex marriage. That's a whole nother story though.

One more thing, a bit off topic. I don't get why some people treat JFK like a god. He wasn't that bad a guy, but he almost started a NUCLEAR WAR over Communism. Communism sounds scarier than it is. It's just another form of government. Damn.

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Do you think it is the right time for a black president?

Lol, isn't that what this whole thing is about? Vote for him to show how chaste and non-racist you are? Vote for him on the virtue that he is black?
But BTW, Obama is not black. He is mullato.

"Nowadays people begin
by sneering at family life and family institutions and next they'll
throw everything overboard and have intermarriage between black
and white." Tom, in "The Great Gatsby".

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Originally posted by bluedemocrat:
Absolutely not true. McCain has stood by the Bush administration during the course of the war. He has pandered to the Religious Right.

Lol, I stand corrected. I completely forgot about that whole "I could walk through Baghdad!" bullcrap he pulled recently. I still like McCain, and I don't know why.

I wish Wesley Clark would run.

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Originally posted by bluedemocrat:

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The fact that everyone else is running to pull the carpet out from Iraq disturbs me. Makes me worry for the future.

I don't want to get into it here, but it makes me think of Vietnam.

No I see why you can see that. There's many differences between Vietnam and Iraq, but a pullout from the middle east would have similar reprocussions to a pullout from Vietnam. 'Nam was an extremely turbulent time for the US, and the aftermath caused wounds that are still healing today. It irrevocably damaged our national identity. We can't allow Iraq to do that again, moreso than it already has.

It's my opinion that it's worth another 3,000 lives and a couple hundred billion to prevent us from failing in Iraq. If we give up Iraq we give up our global leadership. McCain realizes that. Obama, I don't know if he doesn't realize it, doesn't believe it, or doesn't care.

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The fact that everyone else is running to pull the carpet out from Iraq disturbs me. Makes me worry for the future.

I don't want to get into it here, but it makes me think of Vietnam.