quote:

Originally posted by bluedemocrat:
Absolutely not true. McCain has stood by the Bush administration during the course of the war. He has pandered to the Religious Right. Democrats don't like him now and the GOP doesn't trust him to be conservative. Basically, McCain is screwed and this is reflected in the early poll and fundraising numbers.

Which is a shame because he's probably the best candidate to actually run the country. If by "stood by the Bush Administration during the course of the war" you mean "not constantly calling for troop pullouts" then yes. However I think he is one of the only candidates who actually understands what would be needed to win the situation: Persistance and proper application of power. McCain has criticized Bush for not doing enough, and for mismanaging the situation.

The fact that everyone else is running to pull the carpet out from Iraq disturbs me. Makes me worry for the future.

quote:

McCain would be a great candidate to run. He's got good PR and is one of the only Republicans not to be tainted (by Democrats' standards) by the stain of this administration.

Absolutely not true. McCain has stood by the Bush administration during the course of the war. He has pandered to the Religious Right. Democrats don't like him now and the GOP doesn't trust him to be conservative. Basically, McCain is screwed and this is reflected in the early poll and fundraising numbers.

quote:

Originally posted by speed:
They can. Obama is a decent candidate. An african american that prefers focusing on America's lacking social policy is very promising to say the least, whereas McCain, a 70 year old Republican traditionalist is not promising at all when looking at the current situation.

McCain would be a great candidate to run. He's got good PR and is one of the only Republicans not to be tainted (by Democrats' standards) by the stain of this administration.

Obama is a good Senator. He's got great idea, and a refreshingly good head on his shoulders..but his inexperience will be his downfall.

(As for Edwards' experience, by the way, he was a million-dollar trial lawyer, a Senator and a presidental campaign nominee twice. He's new, but not completely. I'm not a huge Edwards fan, I just appreciate him as a politician.)

quote:

I wasn't aware that helping friendly corporations make a lot of money could be considered ideals. Oh yeah, and fuck abortion and homosexuals.

Bush is still an idealist. Spread Democracy everywhere, build a country based on moral values...blah blah. I don't agree (obviously) but Doc's right, he IS an idealist.

quote:

I will admit that I jumped the gun on that one. I was, er, consuming adult beverages when I posted that.

quote:

Why can't the Dems run a decent candidate?

They can. Obama is a decent candidate. An african american that prefers focusing on America's lacking social policy is very promising to say the least, whereas McCain, a 70 year old Republican traditionalist is not promising at all when looking at the current situation.

quote:

Bush, also, is an idealist. His ideals just vary from your own. Think about that.

I wasn't aware that helping friendly corporations make a lot of money could be considered ideals. Oh yeah, and fuck abortion and homosexuals.

quote:

Idealism is, in my opinion, a scourge on our political system. Johnson was an idealist. His "Great Society" failed miserably, and he drove us into Vietnam.

I don't view Johnson as such a huge failure. To me, his Great Society was succesful in many ways. Of course, Vietnam was a disaster.

quote:

Bush, also, is an idealist. His ideals just vary from your own. Think about that.

Yes, his ideals differ from mine, but I cannot remember Bush's idealistic message. There was never a hopeful theme to his campaign. He has a hyper-partisan way of governing. He does not even pretend to try to work with Democrats. Basically, his message is "Don't vote for Democrats. They Heart Terrorists."

quote:

And the hype for Obama is, in my humble opinion, overrated. I think once the campaigne continues his lack of experitise will become apparent and support will fade.

It will fade if Obama lets it. I don't think it's that hard to add substance to his campaign. Apparently, he has health care plan in the works.
Regardless, so much of it is image. Pollsters say that Bush won in '04 because he was the candidate that voters could relate to. Voters neither care nor understand most issues.

quote:

Originally posted by bluedemocrat:
I'm not going to address the full of spending complaint as we differ ideologically on that issue. But idealism? Why is that so bad? Even if he is a just a politician he is inspiring people. People are excited about Obama just as they were excited about Bill Clinton. We don't see that very often in politics.

Idealism is, in my opinion, a scourge on our political system. Johnson was an idealist. His "Great Society" failed miserably, and he drove us into Vietnam. Bush, also, is an idealist. His ideals just vary from your own. Think about that.

And the hype for Obama is, in my humble opinion, overrated. I think once the campaigne continues his lack of experitise will become apparent and support will fade.

quote:

Yeah but Clinton did the same thing and her's was a lot worse.

Yeah but Clinton actually LIVED in the south for a while, ha. We also already know she's a blatant carpetbagger. Obama's supposed to be the honest golden boy.

Not that my vote would go to either of them anyway. Or to Edwards. Why can't the Dems run a decent candidate? Right now I'm just pulling for Guliani. McCain has promise but I'm not sure.

quote:

JFK was medal-winning military man, a member of the House for 4 years and a Senator for 7. Obama's only been in politics for about 10 years.

And what about your man, John Edwards? He served 1 term in the Senate. That's it. He has less political experience than Obama does and Clinton does not have much more.

quote:

His plans are idealistic and full of spending. He's got almost no forgien policy experience, and no real concept of strategic thought.

I'm not going to address the full of spending complaint as we differ ideologically on that issue. But idealism? Why is that so bad? Even if he is a just a politician he is inspiring people. People are excited about Obama just as they were excited about Bill Clinton. We don't see that very often in politics.

And no top candidate has real for. policy experience (except McCain and his campaign is self-destructing as I type). And as I said before, Bush's administration had and has an incredible amount of for. policy experience and look at it now. A complete and utter mess.

quote:

What really sealed it for me was how he suddenly gained a black southern accent when he was campaigning in Alabama. He's just another politician, don't let him fool you.

Yeah but Clinton did the same thing and her's was a lot worse.

quote:

Originally posted by bluedemocrat:
What about JFK? What about RFK (if he hadn't been assasinated)?

JFK was medal-winning military man, a member of the House for 4 years and a Senator for 7. Obama's only been in politics for about 10 years.

quote:

There is little difference between Obama, Edwards, and Clinton. Neither Clinton nor Obama is "extreme".

Socially, there is a huge extreme. Obama = young, wet-behind-the-ears mixed-race Senator with big dreams and good intentions. Clinton = seasoned, older, white liberal Democrat from upper-middle-class family. Edwards = downhome, not too young, not as experienced everyman candidate with comfortable values.

That's all I meant.

Obama just isn't experienced enough, period. If I was Obama, I would've just been extremely flattered that the Democrats wanted me to run for the candidacy, but I would have waited until 2012 (if the Democrats fail to grab this election) or 2016 to run. I would've put the party before myself and thrown my weight behind someone else. For now.

Blue:
I will admit that I jumped the gun on that one. I was, er, consuming adult beverages when I posted that. He's not exactly a rich boy.

However, he's still high on flash and low on substance. His plans are idealistic and full of spending. He's got almost no forgien policy experience, and no real concept of strategic thought.

What really sealed it for me was how he suddenly gained a black southern accent when he was campaigning in Alabama. He's just another politician, don't let him fool you.

quote:

Obama is too young and inexperienced to be the Democratic nominee. You don't replace a two-term Republican with a new one-term Senator.

What about JFK? What about RFK (if he hadn't been assasinated)? I think you're underestimating Obama. Bush's administration is extremely experienced and yet it is one of the worst in the history of the United States. People want a fresh face and an anti-establishment candidate is very appealing.

quote:

Her biggest opponent is Edwards. He's the comfortable candidate between the two extremes.

There is little difference between Obama, Edwards, and Clinton. Neither Clinton nor Obama is "extreme".

quote:

Something a rich-boy who was born in Hawaii fundamentally lacks. Come on now. Obama isn't from Illinois, he's from Hawaii. His parents were essentially rich. He never had a day of need in his life.

Not quite. His dad lived in Kenya and was not around to support the family. His grandparents (with whom he lived) were not wealthy. His mom was frequently unemployed. I believe he was on financial aid at his fancy prep-school. Obama has lived in Indonesia. He worked with poor people in Chicago. I think he has seen and experienced a bit more than Clinton and Edwards.

quote:

Originally posted by Liang:
I don't really care who it is. However, the next president better not lead us to another war because numerous of people have passed away already. Also the next president better do something with global warming too.

How about free cookies for everyone too?

I don't really care who it is. However, the next president better not lead us to another war because numerous of people have passed away already. Also the next president better do something with global warming too.

Obama is too young and inexperienced to be the Democratic nominee. You don't replace a two-term Republican with a new one-term Senator.

Clinton has a very good chance, but clpo's right. Her biggest opponent is Edwards. He's the comfortable candidate between the two extremes.

It seems to me that John Edwards is gaining ground on both Clinton and Obama. If things keep going as they are now, he'll be top pick for the Democrats. I'd vote for him over either of the other two.

quote:

Originally posted by Shade:
What's his platform?

More government handouts and the usual "I am not your common pandering politician!" line.

Seriously, the only thing that dude will give us is some seriously naive policy. God help us if he's elected.

quote:

To be President, it takes more than medals, speeches, money, and experience--it takes a deep understanding of the average American and the issues we face in our daily lives

Something a rich-boy who was born in Hawaii fundamentally lacks. Come on now. Obama isn't from Illinois, he's from Hawaii. His parents were essentially rich. He never had a day of need in his life.

What's his platform?

Way to make it a non issue Einstein. What a hippocrit.

Obama is one of my favorite candidates for presidency. I have yet to see who else is running, and their views but right now I can honestly say that if Obama runs he will most likely get my vote. I really like the way he thinks and his ideas. I have yet to read his book though, that reminds me that I wanted to get it.

"This is an opportunity for a new generation of leaders to step forward to remake America, combining the great traditions and values we share with a bold, hopeful vision of tomorrow," Sen. Dick Durbin said in a written statement.

Sen. Barack Obama has decided to join the race for the presidency in 2008. I believe he is the best choice for America to create a new generation of leaders and ideals that gets us away from the politics of today where only the rich and privelaged have a voice.

Some poeple say he is inexperienced because he hasn't been in Washington DC for 20 years, but I say that's what makes Obama the best choice! He isn't a product of all the corruption and bickering that today's so called leaders are and have been a part of for decades.

Obama is truly the Presidential choice away from the establishment and he has the smarts, the ideas, and charisma to bring America out of this rut domestically and globally. No more Hillary or Edwards or McCain or Guiliani--all those people care about are their own agendas and they have no care of what the American people want and need--which is a VOICE in the political process.

To be President, it takes more than medals, speeches, money, and experience--it takes a deep understanding of the average American and the issues we face in our daily lives and how we can come together, no matter our race, creed, or income-to make this nation what it should be--which is a new and shining hope for our generation and our future kids.

So I ask you to do your research, learn about Sen. Obama, and make your choice and start fighting for what you believe in, because if you don't, no one else will!

Peace,

Josh M

I'd love Obama if he didn't support a bunch of socialist policies and basically support all the things that keep me away from the Democratic party.

I'm crossing my fingers that Guiliani runs. McCain isn't so bad but I think that having someone outside of the Washington circle get in there will be a HUGE boon to the nation.