Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
Registered: June 21, 2004
Posts: 7
|
lately there's been a lot of talk about gay rights. thankfully. but i'm concerned with how we often talk about equality/justice for lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender folks as if it only benefits this group. homophobia - institutionalized or not - hurts and limits everybody. lots of people - gay and straight alike - live in fear...fear of honestly expressing themselves and acting outside rigid gender/sexual roles and fear of developing close, meaningful relationships with people of the same sex (and being labeled 'gay' and consequently suffering stigma, harassment and discrimination). homophobia oppresses and limits everybody -- it's everybody's issue.
live now.
|
Registered: December 14, 2006
Posts: 119
|
quote: Originally posted by Saturnmoth007:
whether homophobia is right or wrong (on a personal level) you cant stand here and tell me that a person should not be allowed to think it, especially if you are trying to force everyone to believe that homosexuality is a normal part of life. Perhaps not everyone thinks your way just as not everyone thinks in a homophobic way. You are contradicting yourself. homophobia is not some physical villainous force; perhaps it is the result of miseducation, religious values, stupiditiy, supreme intelligence maybe... but the fact is you have no more right to tell a homophobic person to give up everything that they believe in and accept homosexuality. If you do that, you are no different than those you oppose.
Hell Yeah! |
Registered: June 14, 2006
Posts: 956
|
I'm not saying that you have to become a member of PFLAG. Just don't say that gay people can't have the exact same rights as a straight person, stop commiting hate crimes, and stop trying to make it so that gay people don't excist
Y to the V to the licious ... YVlicious....
|
Registered: May 03, 2005
Posts: 258
|
whether homophobia is right or wrong (on a personal level) you cant stand here and tell me that a person should not be allowed to think it, especially if you are trying to force everyone to believe that homosexuality is a normal part of life. Perhaps not everyone thinks your way just as not everyone thinks in a homophobic way. You are contradicting yourself. homophobia is not some physical villainous force; perhaps it is the result of miseducation, religious values, stupiditiy, supreme intelligence maybe... but the fact is you have no more right to tell a homophobic person to give up everything that they believe in and accept homosexuality. If you do that, you are no different than those you oppose. and just to let you know, im fine with homosexuality, gay marriage, whatever. But I do not like those who try to impose their beliefs on everyone else's conscious (not to say that you are doing so)
"No, this trick won't work...How on earth are you ever going to explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love?" - Albert Einstein
|
Registered: December 03, 2006
Posts: 48
|
But what does equality/ justice mean ?? that they are allowed public displayes of afection ?? That they are allowed adoption?? Allowed invitro and all that it includes ?? Allowed in the Army , sports ?? I have absolutely no problem accepting any kind of relationships barring ...uh ...animals .......its just that -it will always BE an issue . people are not suddenly going to accept and be completely fine with it . And honestly the question is not about two people in love with each other irrespective of sex but everything else that acceptance will include .
To save the environment , plant a bush back in Texas.
|
Registered: June 14, 2006
Posts: 956
|
quote: Originally posted by Trisscar:
The funny thing is Homosexuality has been around since ancient times.
Back in the day in roman times it was normal for man to have a male partner before getting married (I was told this by my teacher, it could be wrong).
Yep. Your right. The Greecians were more prominently accepting of homosexuality, but your right.
Y to the V to the licious ... YVlicious....
|
Registered: April 24, 2005
Posts: 872
|
quote: So are you saying that gay people shouldn't be open about their relationships? And that gay public display of affection should not happen? I'm just trying to understand what you are saying?
yeah thats about it, no over the top public displays of affection, there was a very openly gay guy in my highschool/college and he found great pleasure in expressing every tiny detail of his life-style. However i don't like over the top personal displays of affection from straight couples either to be honest.
'it's better to have your ministers inside the tent pissing out than outside, pissing in'
|
Registered: October 22, 2006
Posts: 2535
|
The funny thing is Homosexuality has been around since ancient times. Back in the day in roman times it was normal for man to have a male partner before getting married (I was told this by my teacher, it could be wrong). But whether that statement is true or not, Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years regardless, its not like its a "new" thing - it just was never talked about because it was concidered a "sin". Infact until just recently (within the last 20 years) Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness in Canada. I mean, no wonder people didn't come out and tell the world. But now that its becoming more accepted by society we're starting to see all these "issues" with people who refuse to see homosexuals as other people who should have the same rights as the next person. So think about it. This issue isn't new, it just hasn't been addressed until recently.
J'irai bien.
|
Registered: June 14, 2006
Posts: 956
|
quote: i don't mind gays, just as long as they respect there are others who would take offence at their actions and do not act with upmost indecency when in the company of others, who would not like to know about their sexual preferences. It should be entirely private and i believe campness, as it has come to be known (norton, clarey - to those in the UK!) is a disgusting attention grabbing phenomena which is better off out of public attention.
So are you saying that gay people shouldn't be open about their relationships? And that gay public display of affection should not happen? I'm just trying to understand what you are saying?
Y to the V to the licious ... YVlicious....
|
Registered: April 24, 2005
Posts: 872
|
quote: phobia = an intense and irrational dislike/fear of something usually non-threatening
Examples: spiders, close spaces, or mice
Just because I don't like going up the ladder doesn't mean I am acrophobic.
In a similar manner, just because I believe homophobia is not natural (or at least is not supported by evolution theory) does not make me a homophobe.
Homosexuality can easily be considered one of those behaviors that evolution "weeds out" because it does not further the species. Remember that the "circle of life" idea claims species are regulated by outside factors (food, predators) and not by inward factors except in removing the inefficient parts.
I don't see evolution as an omnipotent thing, and therefore I think homosexuality could be called natural in that sense, but I don't think it is an improvement over heterosexuality by any possible meaning of the word.
first off when you mentioned going up the ladder i thought it was a crude metaphor :-P on the matter of evolution and homosexuality, i remember reading some time ago that the genetic fault which causes the issue is also responsible for increasing the fertility of the female, a possible explanation. quote: There is a church in Dallas that accepts any/everybody. Gay, straight, old, young, every reace. I sit back and think, isn't this what Christianity should be? ISn't this what Jesus taught us? That God loves ALL of us? No matter who you are or who you love?
As for hiding behing "Well, The Bible says..." Well. The fact is that the Bible has been worng and used to defend wrong doings. Hitler justified his arguments with the Bible, as did segregationists, pro-slavists, and people against womens rights.
and what is the solution? to live by inherant moral beliefs derided from yourself and not from those professed by god or his followers - morality does not stem from religion, it is benign, those which seek moral direction from a church are weak or brainwashed. Believe in god, or don't, just do not try to force the word of god as some sort of dominant moral idea. Also jesus didn't really teach anything, he just acted out his life and then people read into those actions....he didn't actually do a lot, except witchcraft. Anyway my views on homophobia...i don't mind gays, just as long as they respect there are others who would take offence at their actions and do not act with upmost indecency when in the company of others, who would not like to know about their sexual preferences. It should be entirely private and i believe campness, as it has come to be known (norton, clarey - to those in the UK!) is a disgusting attention grabbing phenomena which is better off out of public attention.
'it's better to have your ministers inside the tent pissing out than outside, pissing in'
|
Registered: December 01, 2006
Posts: 3
|
quote: Originally posted by amnestynow: quote: Originally posted by GenuineEssence28:
Look....I do not agree with homosexuality. I am not afriad of anyone who says that they are gay or a lesbian. I will treat them nicely and walk in love. I will live as example to show them. But I will not agree. Why?
Because it is written in that age old book (yes the B-I-B-L-E), which many people mock and ridicule today, that God created male for female. This is no joke people!!! I will be blunt with it. I don't need big words or terminology. God made us a certain way. He made man and women differently. He said that women were made as a help meet unto men. No man can ever satisfy another man the way a woman can because they WERE NOT MADE TO.
I mean, it is pretty obvious. But the world is turning further and further away from how God made it to be. It is like a KEY and a LOCK. God made it obvious, didn't he? Two keys can not go together and neither can two locks. When a man and man get together or when a woman and a woman get together, guess what, NOTHING HAPPENS!!!! The whole purpose of sex is to make a child. Which the world has totally turned away from. The bible says to save sex for the marriage bed. But the point is, you can't make a child with two men or two women.
No I am not prejudice. No I am not afraid. I am strong in Jesus name and that is why I have the courage to write this. In the word of God it says that when two women or two men come together, they worketh that which is unseemly. Unseemly!!!!!!! What does that mean??? It means improper, unnatural, insuitable. Why would you do something that is unnatural?????
Trust me if you are gay or you believe that it is okay to be gay, and you would like to comment on my opinion go ahead. You can not hurt my feelings. God is the one who is watching you. He wants us all, EVERYONE, to follow him and his word. But it is our choice to do so or not. One day each of us will stand in judgement. I guarentee it. I hope you guys will follow God and be able to say on that day of judgement, innocent.
Yes, but he created people, and, personally, I believe that people are born gay or straight. And the chuch says that people can be born gay.So, it isn't a far stretch that God made people gay. Now, if all of this is true, then how can being gay be wrong? Do you think that these people are somehow any less right in their convictions than you are? And how can you say that any sexuality is in anyway preferred by God? God created love, and when 'you' are in love you don't love their sexuality you love the person. And since when has love been all about sex? If you are really going to go by the church, then you need to consider that God created sex for after 'love' --true? So then, sex has nothing to do with falling in love according to the church. So you can't judge a persons ability or inability to love by their ability/inability to have sex. And you can't sa y that you will 'walk with someone in love' if you are so fervently against their very core views. How can you disagree with homophobia in one sentence and slam homosexuals in three proceeding paragraphs...that is unseemly
the first quote has nothing to do with wat the church has to say about anyting, it has everything to do with wat thee BIble says. Christians shouldn't base their opinions off of church doctrine, but instead the Bible. Church Doctrine has been proven wrong many times...for example the Catholic Church was questioned by Martin Luther for their teachings because at that time they wern't living and teaching according to what the Bible said. So just because a church says something doesnt make it true. The truth lies in the Bible. And people can be wrong. And i get the impression that u think a christian can't be genuinely nice and care for a homosexual because he believes it's wrong...however thats not true at all. I can;t explain it at this point but I care for every gay person that I kno, very much so actually, but I still agree with the fact that it's wrong. |
Registered: December 01, 2006
Posts: 3
|
quote: Originally posted by affanculo:
There is a church in Dallas that accepts any/everybody. Gay, straight, old, young, every reace. I sit back and think, isn't this what Christianity should be? ISn't this what Jesus taught us? That God loves ALL of us? No matter who you are or who you love?
As for hiding behing "Well, The Bible says..." Well. The fact is that the Bible has been worng and used to defend wrong doings. Hitler justified his arguments with the Bible, as did segregationists, pro-slavists, and people against womens rights.
i agree with ur first paragraph...christians should love ppl no matter how they choose to live...but as i was thinking about it, i honestly got really confused with how we as christians should speak the truth... and not appear to be judging at the same time. u kno??? i was wondering if u had an idea...also how do u back up the statement that the bible has been wrong??? c/b please |
Registered: June 14, 2006
Posts: 956
|
There is a church in Dallas that accepts any/everybody. Gay, straight, old, young, every reace. I sit back and think, isn't this what Christianity should be? ISn't this what Jesus taught us? That God loves ALL of us? No matter who you are or who you love? As for hiding behing "Well, The Bible says..." Well. The fact is that the Bible has been worng and used to defend wrong doings. Hitler justified his arguments with the Bible, as did segregationists, pro-slavists, and people against womens rights.
Y to the V to the licious ... YVlicious....
|
Registered: June 02, 2004
Posts: 8352
|
Back in the '60's, before a strong gay rights movement started, there were many churches of some denominations that accepted homosexuality.
Live and Let Live. Love and Let Love.
|
Registered: October 05, 2006
Posts: 26
|
quote: Originally posted by GenuineEssence28:
Look....I do not agree with homosexuality. I am not afriad of anyone who says that they are gay or a lesbian. I will treat them nicely and walk in love. I will live as example to show them. But I will not agree. Why?
Because it is written in that age old book (yes the B-I-B-L-E), which many people mock and ridicule today, that God created male for female. This is no joke people!!! I will be blunt with it. I don't need big words or terminology. God made us a certain way. He made man and women differently. He said that women were made as a help meet unto men. No man can ever satisfy another man the way a woman can because they WERE NOT MADE TO.
I mean, it is pretty obvious. But the world is turning further and further away from how God made it to be. It is like a KEY and a LOCK. God made it obvious, didn't he? Two keys can not go together and neither can two locks. When a man and man get together or when a woman and a woman get together, guess what, NOTHING HAPPENS!!!! The whole purpose of sex is to make a child. Which the world has totally turned away from. The bible says to save sex for the marriage bed. But the point is, you can't make a child with two men or two women.
No I am not prejudice. No I am not afraid. I am strong in Jesus name and that is why I have the courage to write this. In the word of God it says that when two women or two men come together, they worketh that which is unseemly. Unseemly!!!!!!! What does that mean??? It means improper, unnatural, insuitable. Why would you do something that is unnatural?????
Trust me if you are gay or you believe that it is okay to be gay, and you would like to comment on my opinion go ahead. You can not hurt my feelings. God is the one who is watching you. He wants us all, EVERYONE, to follow him and his word. But it is our choice to do so or not. One day each of us will stand in judgement. I guarentee it. I hope you guys will follow God and be able to say on that day of judgement, innocent.
Yes, but he created people, and, personally, I believe that people are born gay or straight. And the chuch says that people can be born gay.So, it isn't a far stretch that God made people gay. Now, if all of this is true, then how can being gay be wrong? Do you think that these people are somehow any less right in their convictions than you are? And how can you say that any sexuality is in anyway preferred by God? God created love, and when 'you' are in love you don't love their sexuality you love the person. And since when has love been all about sex? If you are really going to go by the church, then you need to consider that God created sex for after 'love' --true? So then, sex has nothing to do with falling in love according to the church. So you can't judge a persons ability or inability to love by their ability/inability to have sex. And you can't sa y that you will 'walk with someone in love' if you are so fervently against their very core views. How can you disagree with homophobia in one sentence and slam homosexuals in three proceeding paragraphs...that is unseemly |
Registered: April 03, 2005
Posts: 113
|
quote: Homophobia is also the dislike of gay people.
phobia = an intense and irrational dislike/fear of something usually non-threatening Examples: spiders, close spaces, or mice Just because I don't like going up the ladder doesn't mean I am acrophobic. In a similar manner, just because I believe homophobia is not natural (or at least is not supported by evolution theory) does not make me a homophobe. Homosexuality can easily be considered one of those behaviors that evolution "weeds out" because it does not further the species. Remember that the "circle of life" idea claims species are regulated by outside factors (food, predators) and not by inward factors except in removing the inefficient parts. I don't see evolution as an omnipotent thing, and therefore I think homosexuality could be called natural in that sense, but I don't think it is an improvement over heterosexuality by any possible meaning of the word.
Nose-On! Spray directly up your nose! (May cause blindness, hives, or immediate death. Do not take if...)
|
Registered: June 02, 2004
Posts: 8352
|
I'm serious. Okay, maybe I'm not, my cousin married a nice guy from the South, and he doesn't speak with a drawl or belong to the KKK and he obviously didn't marry within the family, so they can't ALL be horrible people.......
Live and Let Live. Love and Let Love.
|
Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6049
|
Heh, nice freedom. Albino, one piece of advice: act like an idiot, get treated like one.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
|
Registered: June 02, 2004
Posts: 8352
|
quote: haha all gay ppl should be shot cmon there gay
the south will rise again
haha all southern ppl should be shot cmon there southern the gays will rise again
Live and Let Live. Love and Let Love.
|
Registered: October 28, 2005
Posts: 5354
|
I hope you are not serious.
draft beer not soldiers...
|
|
