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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5770
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quote: WAYNESVILLE, N.C. May 7, 2005 — Some in Pastor Chan Chandler's flock wish he had a little less zeal for the GOP. Members of the small East Waynesville Baptist Church say Chandler led an effort to kick out congregants who didn't support President Bush. Nine members were voted out at a Monday church meeting in this mountain town, about 120 miles west of Charlotte.
"He's the kind of pastor who says do it my way or get out," said Selma Morris, the former church treasurer. "He's real negative all the time."
Chandler didn't return a message left by The Associated Press at his home Friday, and several calls to the church went unanswered. He told WLOS-TV in Asheville that the actions were not politically motivated.The station also reported that 40 others in the 400-member congregation resigned in protest after Monday's vote.
During the presidential election last year, Chandler told the congregation that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry should either leave the church or repent, said former member Lorene Sutton.
Some church members left after Chandler made his ultimatum in October, Morris said.
George Bullard, associate executive director-treasurer for Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, told the Asheville Citizen-Times that a pastor has every right to disallow memberships if a church's bylaws allow for the pastor to establish criteria for membership.
"Membership is a local church issue," he said. "It is not something the state convention would enter into."
He added that the nine members were not legally terminated because Monday's meeting was supposed to be a deacons meeting, not a business meeting. They have a lawyer looking into the situation, he said.
The head of the North Carolina Democratic Party sharply criticized the pastor Friday, saying Chandler jeopardized his church's tax-free status by openly supporting a candidate for president.
"If these reports are true, this minister is not only acting extremely inappropriately by injecting partisan politics into a house of worship, but he is also potentially breaking the law," Chairman Jerry Meek said. Doris Wilson, one of Chandler's neighbors and a member of First Baptist Church in Waynesville, said God doesn't play partisan politics.
"I hate to see the church suffer like that," she said. "God doesn't care whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. It just hurts to see that going on."
Source: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=737124
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5770
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quote: Only the legislative branch cane make laws, not churches.
But you said "A private organization can have any rules it wants." Suppose they make a rule that they must kill a Democrats. Is that okay? quote: I mean celtic, said all christians are conservative?
Celtic said that, not me. I don't think all christians are conservative. Worth on YN is a christain, but not a conservative. http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=123922,00.html According to this IRS article: "Under the law, organizations described in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code that are exempt from federal income tax are prohibited from directly or indirectly participating or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of, or in opposition to, any candidate for public office. Charities, educational institutions and religious organizations, including churches, are among those that are tax-exempt under this code section. " I hope this clears a few things up.
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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quote: I imagine you are the type of teenage waste of oxygen that sees a guy he considers unworthy and coughs, mutters "loser", and coughs
How would you know who Redjill is? She wasn't around when you started posting as Celtic? quote: Wait, so if a church decided to make a law to kill Democrats than that would okay?
Only the legislative branch cane make laws, not churches. quote: IRS rules prevent clear-cut politicking by tax-exempt groups
No, they prevent nonprofits, get it straight. It has beend one in the past and nothing has ever happened, why should it change now? quote: The IRS did. A church in my town got in trouble for telling the congregation to vote for Kerry.
Wait a minute, I thought Redjill, I mean celtic, said all christians are conservative? Go ahead and provide me a ink to ana rticle that proves what you are claiming.
Marine 16 - the man, the myth, the legend
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Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 9501
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quote: Redjill, I mean Celtic.
I imagine you are the type of teenage waste of oxygen that sees a guy he considers unworthy and coughs, mutters "loser", and coughs And since you have no good reply to me, I'll go down to your pathetic level. Poopie-head!
"Regardless, I have always, and will always, succeed."
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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5770
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quote: A private organization can have any rules it wants. Otgherwise there would be a violation of the first emmendment.
Wait, so if a church decided to make a law to kill Democrats than that would okay? quote: Not allowing a nonprofit to back a political candidate or enforce political ideology is against the first ammendment.
IRS rules prevent clear-cut politicking by tax-exempt groups. The church is tax-exempt and therefore the rule applies. quote: No one has ever said, who has a sane mind, that politiccs can not be a part of a church.
The IRS did. A church in my town got in trouble for telling the congregation to vote for Kerry.
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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quote: They don't have an opinion. God gave them an opinion.
Thanks for proving my point Redjill, I mean Celtic. The rest of your post was senseless rabble, but I guess it was fun to look at.
Marine 16 - the man, the myth, the legend
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Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 9501
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quote: A private organization can have any rules it wants. Otgherwise there would be a violation of the first emmendment.
Do you know anything of Gorean followers? I really think you'd re-evaluate what you just said if you knew of them. quote: Chruches are not machines, they are organisms that host breathing humans
"Religions are the cradles of despotism" - Marquis de Sade. Can not, wrong. Cannot. They don't have an opinion. God gave them an opinion.
"Regardless, I have always, and will always, succeed."
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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quote: It violates the church's agreement with the IRS. The IRS gives the church tax breaks assuming that it doesn't preach politics or exclude based on politics.
Its not an agreement with the IRS, its the right of non-profit organizations. Nonprofits back political people all the time - the Christian Coalition backed Reagan and the NAACP backed Kerry. Non of these non profits have been forced to pay taxes. Not allowing a nonprofit to back a political candidate or enforce political ideology is against the first ammendment. quote: Politics should simple not be a part of a church
But politics is part of a church. Look at how decisions are made in a church that do not apply to Church doctrine. Your arguement needs to be reversed and changed completley. There is no place for religous endorsement in the American government. No one has ever said, who has a sane mind, that politiccs can not be a part of a church. quote: Religious rules, not political rules
A private organization can have any rules it wants. Otgherwise there would be a violation of the first emmendment. To believe religious institutions must be completley isolated from the rest of society is absurd. They play a pivotal role in every community. Chruches are not machines, they are organisms that host breathing humans. These people have opinions and endorse them, we can not expect them to do otherwise.
Marine 16 - the man, the myth, the legend
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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5770
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quote: churchs should be able to chose members who best suit it.
It violates the church's agreement with the IRS. The IRS gives the church tax breaks assuming that it doesn't preach politics or exclude based on politics. quote: Members are escpected to follow a set of rules.
Religious rules, not political rules. Politics should simple not be a part of a church. Pastors should preach religion, not politics.
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
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Well, you know, in my church homosexuals have to seek help, otherwise they can't go in our temples, just as adulterers, murderers, theifs, and such have to repent before they can enter the temple. Yes, it's wrong to say, "If you don't vote for so and so, you're excommunicated" but it's perfectly fine for them to have views.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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Churchs are private organizations. They chose their own members. Members are escpected to follow a set of rules. Not only should you be able to chose a church that best suits you, churchs should be able to chose members who best suit it. Sounds to me like they had every right in the worl to kick them out.
Marine 16 - the man, the myth, the legend
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Registered: April 15, 2005
Posts: 224
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Thanks blue...I just want to let you know sometimes I dont specifically personally agree or dissagree with certain topics, but know some stuff about them, or the other side of them. I'm for gay-rights and equal marriage rights for homosexuals, but in the posts i posted I told everyone kind of the other side to it, because I am informed on it...thats just an example. So in this I just wanted to challenge you with the otherside. I understand your view point...personally i think you should be able to personally chose a church that you feel best suits you. I don't think it was right what happend in this church, but at the same time can sympathize with their side of it. Baptists are really strict on having the congragation as a whole, have core central beliefs...that's why I understand what they mean. I don't agree with it though, unless they acted out or dissrespected these Baptists community or did somethign wrong I dont think they should have just been excommunicated like that. But they will find a church that suits them and congragation a bit more open minded and supportive and I just wish them the best of luck on finding it. Wanting to be religious or spiritual with the support of church is obviously important to these people, so i can only say that I hope the best for them.
"Che cosa facciamo nella vita, echos nel eternity."
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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5770
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quote: Read more than one source
This story was featured in a variety of newspapers too. quote: read quotes from the Pastor and members of the community.
In all the articles that I read, the pastor declined to comment. The news story that I saw featured a Republican member of the church expressing his outrage over the situation. quote: They didn't fit, it's not your choice and its not your religion, so obviously you do not understand.
The pastor should not choose who attends his church. Who cares about their beliefs? Unless, these people vandalized the church or commited some other sort of crime, they should not be denied the right to worship. You are right, though, I will never understand the Baptist religion or this particular church. quote: And this whole time I wasn't even saying it was right, I was just showing you the other side, and giving some information on the Baptists believes.
Damn, I just read this part of your post. Okay, well thanks for showing me the other side of this issue. Please don't think that I was attacking you this whole time. Just out of curiosity, though, what do you really think? I promise that I won't argue with you any more about this issue.
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: April 15, 2005
Posts: 224
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quote: That is not what the story said. How do you know?
Read more than one source, think rationally, the Baptist community did not decide one day non-Bush supporters should be excommunicated from their church. Read more than one article, read quotes from the Pastor and members of the community. Yur being close minded, not everything directly relates back to politics Blue, read about Baptists and then read about the people who were pushed out of the church. They didn't fit, it's not your choice and its not your religion, so obviously you do not understand. I dont fully understand either, but being that I grew up in Catholic School till 7th grade, and being that Baptist religion is a form of Christianity derived mostly from Roman Catholalism(sp) haha that word looks halarious...anyways I have more of an understanding of where there comming from. And this whole time I wasn't even saying it was right, I was just showing you the other side, and giving some information on the Baptists believes. Personally it doesn't make me go "OH MY GOD" but I understand both sides and can sympathize with both as well.
"Che cosa facciamo nella vita, echos nel eternity."
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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5770
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quote: IT WASN'T ABOUT NOT SUPPORTING BUSH.
That is not what the story said. How do you know?
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: April 15, 2005
Posts: 224
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quote: Marine, did you even read my post. For all we know these people were anti-abortion. They could have voted for Kerry because they disaproved of how Bush handled the war in Iraq. The point is we don't know if they had the Baptist ideals
Yes I read your post, jeez. and I chose not to respond because IT WASN'T ABOUT NOT SUPPORTING BUSH. Sorry but that's not what it was about. And it doesnt matter if they could have been anti-abortion, obviously as a whole this baptist community felt that their views and beliefs clashed with theres. They did not wake up one day and say "let's get rid of the Dems!!!", seriously get over it, if that's what you think it was about then you obviously too did not read about it. Let's just stop this, and seriously blue just get over it, because your not part of their community, and you obviously do not know anything about the Baptist religion so lets just leave it alone.
"Che cosa facciamo nella vita, echos nel eternity."
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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5770
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Marine, did you even read my post. For all we know these people were anti-abortion. They could have voted for Kerry because they disaproved of how Bush handled the war in Iraq. The point is we don't know if they had the Baptist ideals.
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: April 15, 2005
Posts: 224
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quote: This further proves my belief that the conservative right has taken over religion. Religion used to be uber-liberal, but not any more. Now you can get excommunicated for voting the wrong way. Wow. And here I thought you religious types were kind and forgiving. Oh wait, I'm thinking of Buddhists.
They were not excommunicated for their support of a candidate, stop saying that, read about it and learn more. Their beliefs clashed with what the Baptists truley stand for. And if you read my origional post on this, with some good information on the Baptist religions you would maybe get a better understanding on the situation.
"Che cosa facciamo nella vita, echos nel eternity."
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Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 9501
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Yeah, 'cause you know tai-chi is actually some sort of self-defense thing, only done slowly.
"Regardless, I have always, and will always, succeed."
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6049
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Fast-forward tai-chi...hehe, I'm gonna have to remember that. But yeah, I suppose everyone naturally is like that. Oh well.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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