I just want to see what people feel about this.
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I'm saying the theory, kill one to save many is the same idea. You're just acting stupid.

How does a stem cell eat another stem cell in hopes of saving the other stem cells? And what would come along that would harm a stem cell that might run away after the eating? Diseases and infections won't, they don't care if a stem cell eats another stem cell.

Hold on a second, I think your argument is flawed... Maybe, just maaaybe...

Well no, Hubb. You're wrong and your friend is too for agreeing. The embryos used were never going to become people.

I found a wonderous connection to stem cell. I was talking to one of my friends who's afraid of rodents, so I was telling her about rodents, wondering if perhaps her learning about their ways and stuff would help her fears go away. So I got my hamster out of her cage, and held her while my friend petted her, and told her about hamsters. I told her that a mother hamster if you snuck up on her too fast or scared her, the mother hamster would eat one or two of her babies in an attempt to make the predator think her a vicious beast and go away. She would kill a baby or two in hopes to protect the other six or so.

When my friend said that this was barbaric and disgusting, I said, "Yes it is. But the hamsters an animal...If you really think about it, it's the same idea as stem cell."

My friend agreed, even though she is VERY pro-stem cell.

Stem cells are wonderful little things.
While I don't agree with starting an embryo just to take its stem cells, I do support taking the stem cells from the placenta after birth. I didn't read far enough back to see if this has been mentioned before, but it's becoming a more available practice, to take the stem cells from a placenta and save them, kinda like "spare parts" for the child. (Or anyone else probably if the parents want to let others use them).

I took a genetics class spring semester, and apparently stem cells are actually kinda temperamental... Prof. said that it's pretty easy to convince a stem cell to develop into a liver cell, while neural tissue "takes a lot of convincing". I think that's interesting.

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thats alomost a dictatorship celtic ignore the masses because "I" who ever I is knows best for them.

But, isn't that kind of what the President does anyways? Bush thinks abortion is wrong, so he can try and make it illegal.

I'm not saying WE have a dictatorship, by ANY means, but in the end, SOMEONE always has power over the many. In a sense.

I love Oscar Wilde, Brehon, and I also think that politicians are liars. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. No exceptions. However, God is not a liar.

Another great phrase fom Oscar Wilde to throw in into the last 4 or 5 posts:

You know that you are right when you disagree with 70% of the British Public.

A great saying that I heard once:

A politician will always tell you what he thinks you want to hear.

Well, I'm sorry Celtic, but that's the way our government's set up. I think our government's messed up right now, because judicial branches are getting way too much power. But that's life. C'est la vive. *shrug*

thats alomost a dictatorship celtic ignore the masses because "I" who ever I is knows best for them. the thing about a free society is people has the right to choose their destiny even of we belive thats the wrong choice the oyjer half of that is having to live with the consequences of their choices.

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But that's not what I'm saying. I don't think it'd be right, but that's the way true democracy works.

So acknowledge the majority even when whatever the idea is stand entirely wrong and useless for humanity in general? I mean, an extreme example, but if a Hitler-like President came to the US, and people supported him, why let him there? He's nothing but worse than any weapon of mass destruction. While I agree that a majority should win, I can't agree on putting that to an extreme.

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Originally posted by NickJ:

quote:

Besides, you are mistaken. I'm not for the majority always. I'm just saying what the majority wants will be. Not that what the majority wants is right and is what I want.

Well, thanks for understanding that the majority is not always the one that you can agree with. I'm glad that the Church of LDS is not totally against abortion, because most Christians/churches are...

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But that's not what I'm saying. I don't think it'd be right, but that's the way true democracy works.

But, we're not a true democracy... we are a true republic. In order for us to be a true democracy, every citizen would be a so called 'senator' having a vote and a voice on legal papers...which i'm not saying is good or bad, just defining it... we have representatives to take care of that business for us...thus, a republic...

Yes, we are a republic, but we have democratic aspects. A true democracy I personally think would be absolute chaos.

I think you'll find that the LDS Church (Mormons) are a lot different than many Churches. Don't think that we're absolutely for abortion though. Notice, it's conditional, that quote. Which is, by the way, from a book that states the Mormon doctrine on a lot of things, "True to the Faith," in case you need reference.

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Besides, you are mistaken. I'm not for the majority always. I'm just saying what the majority wants will be. Not that what the majority wants is right and is what I want.

Well, thanks for understanding that the majority is not always the one that you can agree with. I'm glad that the Church of LDS is not totally against abortion, because most Christians/churches are...

quote:

But that's not what I'm saying. I don't think it'd be right, but that's the way true democracy works.

But, we're not a true democracy... we are a true republic. In order for us to be a true democracy, every citizen would be a so called 'senator' having a vote and a voice on legal papers...which i'm not saying is good or bad, just defining it... we have representatives to take care of that business for us...thus, a republic...

quote:

Originally posted by NickJ:
I'm going to use an argument I used on another thread dealing with majority...

quote:

If 95% of the country believe something, it doesn't matter why they think that, it just matters that the people have decided. That's the constitution.

The Washington Post and ABC news in January did a survey and reported that roughly 60% of Americans were in favor of Abortion. The exacts are 57% of those surveyed said that abortion should be legal in all or most cases, and 54% said that they agreed with the Supreme court decision of Roe vs. Wade... There are more specific stats that I could give you, but I don't want to turn this into another abortion debate. What I am pointing out is that you are obviously for abortion because the majority in America is for abortion, and you are for the majority.
Think of the "=" signs as the world 'like'

So: You=Majority,
Majority=Abortion,
Majority=Abortion

Therefore:
You=Abortion

I'm not looking to outlaw abortiong, NickJ. I'd personally never have an abortion, but being a religious person, I'll go with my religion, and let me tell you the LDS Church (Mormon)'s official stance on abortion.

"...Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when the pregnancy is a resuly of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

Besides, you are mistaken. I'm not for the majority always. I'm just saying what the majority wants will be. Not that what the majority wants is right and is what I want.

quote:

Originally posted by yogore:

quote:

No. If the US believed in going to Africa and bombing it, it wouldn't be right, but I'm sorry. That's the way our constitution is set up...so tough luck.

But a common arguemnt is that what ever the majority thinks should be accepted as right.

But that's not what I'm saying. I don't think it'd be right, but that's the way true democracy works.

quote:

Originally posted by liberalhugger:
Well Hub, you said that the entire reason why you were against embryonic stem cell research was that it would increase abortions. Now you know that it won't for many reasons.

That said, are you pro stem cell all the way now?

And in deciding on IVF, it's purpose is to create life so you should be happy there...

I'm not sure. Thinking of the embryos as people (as I do), I just can't think of building new parts and such out of other people...it just seems barbaric to me. I see that you guys don't see the embryos as people, and I'm not condemning you for that, I just can't convert you to my religion over the internet, and thus, I cannot convert you to my view.

IFV, I think I'm with it's conditional.

I'm going to use an argument I used on another thread dealing with majority...

quote:

If 95% of the country believe something, it doesn't matter why they think that, it just matters that the people have decided. That's the constitution.

The Washington Post and ABC news in January did a survey and reported that roughly 60% of Americans were in favor of Abortion. The exacts are 57% of those surveyed said that abortion should be legal in all or most cases, and 54% said that they agreed with the Supreme court decision of Roe vs. Wade... There are more specific stats that I could give you, but I don't want to turn this into another abortion debate. What I am pointing out is that you are obviously for abortion because the majority in America is for abortion, and you are for the majority.
Think of the "=" signs as the world 'like'

So: You=Majority,
Majority=Abortion,
Majority=Abortion

Therefore:
You=Abortion

quote:

No. If the US believed in going to Africa and bombing it, it wouldn't be right, but I'm sorry. That's the way our constitution is set up...so tough luck.

But a common arguemnt is that what ever the majority thinks should be accepted as right.