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Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
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quote: Originally posted by liberalhugger:
Hail thy great Hubbabaloo! For she is the Prophet come again!!! Let it be known throughout the land that she converses with the esteemed holy spirit and truly knows the will of God. Glory be! Forgive us sinners, for we oppose thee holiness out of our shameful ignorance...
Your religion is mythology. I don't have a problem with mythology untill it interferes with reality, thank you. If you believed that you conversed with Santa Clause, you'd be shackled in the loony bin. But no-oo, this God is perfectly rational.
A thought: What if (since God created people and their brains) he infact gave them the power to utilize science and create progress? As a pacifist, which is more important, saving the lives of those who already exist, or the lives of fetuses who would be discarded anyway?
I understand your probem with funding governmental policies that you do not support. Me too. But since we do not have a privatized system, you're going to have to accept it.
However,I don't quite understand why you have no problem with private groups conducting stem cell research, but draw the line at tax funded opperations. By this logic, one could support abbortion in general and be against federally funded clinics. So out of curriosity- where do you fall on the abortion issue?
How do you even oppose stem-cell research notinvolving embreyos?
While I am pro stem-cell, I also think that some serious ethical boundaries need to be constructed. It isn't so hard to imagine a world of clones and modified human beings and there is no forseeable positive result of that.
I don't have the right to stop people from funding something that they don't believe to be murder, even if I do believe it to be so. However, I do have the right to say that I don't want anything that I do to take part in it. If it doesn't involve embryos, I'm all for it. I'm for science. I'm for medical advancement. I'm not a monster. But I see using aborted embryos as murder. Besides, do you know how long this is going to take? How do you know you have all the embryos you need? You can create a privitized system. We're not babies. We can do things for ourselves. The government doesn't need to help you tie your shoes.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
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Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
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Actually, I'd just been taking a break. Since you've just confirmed that you want me to get upset, I'm not going to. If the embryos unfertilized, how can it be rich and contain life? Just a question. That doesn't make any sense to me. As I said, I'm fine with you people wanting to do the research, but you know, there were people that said the Anglican Church wouldn't be able to live if they government didn't support it, and guess what, it did.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
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Registered: May 27, 2005
Posts: 218
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Voice- your very welcome. And guys, I think we ran Hubbabaloo off. Which is a pitty because I really was looking forward to hearing her comebacks to my post and some of these others. Damn, this always happens...
"I am my brain's publisher." -Philippe Stark
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Registered: July 07, 2004
Posts: 457
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quote: The loss of a few? Don't stem cells come from aborted fetuses, which are already dead? You can't lose somethign that's already dead. You would just be wasting it more.
Stem cells also come from umbilical cords, but doesn't matter, can't do research with those either.
NO! The eggs used for stem cell research are largely taken from UNFERTALIZED eggs. It's practically like a fertilizing center, for people with having trouble with pregnancy! Anyways, stem cell research, the cells used for it, NEVER would have been able to create life. EVER. NEVER EVER NEVER EVER. liberalhugger:THANK YOU! If we are so advanced, it is for a reason. It's like people saying "We shouldn't eat meat" when the only reason we EVOLVED was because of meat! If God gave us big brains (supposing there's a God for those of you who don't agree) than He obviously intended for us to USE them, as in TO SAVE LIVES.
Member of the NDLC*, est. 2005 (National Democratic-Liberal Coalition)
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Registered: May 29, 2005
Posts: 216
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The loss of a few? Don't stem cells come from aborted fetuses, which are already dead? You can't lose somethign that's already dead. You would just be wasting it more. Stem cells also come from umbilical cords, but doesn't matter, can't do research with those either.
...
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6058
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I don't really understand the opposition to stem cell research. I mean, it has the potential to save many lives, and you're whining about the possible loss of a few? A very wise man once said "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: May 27, 2005
Posts: 218
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Hail thy great Hubbabaloo! For she is the Prophet come again!!! Let it be known throughout the land that she converses with the esteemed holy spirit and truly knows the will of God. Glory be! Forgive us sinners, for we oppose thee holiness out of our shameful ignorance... Your religion is mythology. I don't have a problem with mythology untill it interferes with reality, thank you. If you believed that you conversed with Santa Clause, you'd be shackled in the loony bin. But no-oo, this God is perfectly rational. A thought: What if (since God created people and their brains) he infact gave them the power to utilize science and create progress? As a pacifist, which is more important, saving the lives of those who already exist, or the lives of fetuses who would be discarded anyway? I understand your probem with funding governmental policies that you do not support. Me too. But since we do not have a privatized system, you're going to have to accept it. However,I don't quite understand why you have no problem with private groups conducting stem cell research, but draw the line at tax funded opperations. By this logic, one could support abbortion in general and be against federally funded clinics. So out of curriosity- where do you fall on the abortion issue? How do you even oppose stem-cell research notinvolving embreyos? While I am pro stem-cell, I also think that some serious ethical boundaries need to be constructed. It isn't so hard to imagine a world of clones and modified human beings and there is no forseeable positive result of that.
"I am my brain's publisher." -Philippe Stark
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Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 9501
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quote: I think that we should look for it, but this isn't it. God will let us know when we have found it, and this isn't it.
What if God doesn't exist? You can't possibly rely on an idea.
"Regardless, I have always, and will always, succeed."
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Registered: October 06, 2004
Posts: 3372
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quote: First of all, can't you get stem cells from your own bone marrow sometimes.
they are different kinds. Marow stem cells can turn into nerve, blood, and bone cells. Stem cells from a fetus in the days after fertalization can turn into any part of the human body.
O of where dost thou hail, Celephanil, Celephanil? Why dost thou wander in Tengelwar great, why on the sea do you sail?
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Registered: June 23, 2004
Posts: 771
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I personally feel that it should be allowed. It has the potential to save so many lives and cure so many diseases. And I keep reading that if they don't do research on the cells, they have to throw them away because they were frozen and beyond use to anyone else...but I'm not sure..
"I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure." -Clarence Darrow
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Registered: May 22, 2005
Posts: 114
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First of all, can't you get stem cells from your own bone marrow sometimes. Second of all, how is it like cloning? It's quite specifically growing cells for something, not copying the DNA (which *gasp! is exactly what happens in identical twins.) And thirdly: quote: Well I ask you, is it the number of cells or the shape/appearance of those cells that makes us human? that answer is NO to both. we are humans because of the DNA we conain.
Wait so my hair that falls off and contains my DNA is a human? And so are sperm and eggs? What about stillborns? They deserve a chance to live!
-Kim
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Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
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By our goverment's glitches, that would have to do, though it isn't entirely justice. However, justice cannot not always be measured. However, what would happen if they had a national vote? Just out of curiousity.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
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Registered: November 29, 2003
Posts: 1911
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I was just making a point. Stem cell research SHOULD be funded by the government because there is all kinds of governmental interest. Lets just says these things could help people with certain conditions. This means that not only are those people helped, but less money is spent on other government-funded programs having to do with recovery and patient care. I have a question for you though. San Francisco, near where I live, was just made basically the Stem Cell Research capital of the world. Most people here are for stem cell research, so they really don't have any opposition to funding it with their tax dollars. What do you think about that?
"If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated," p.60, "1984," by George Orwell
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Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
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Follow- up: I am a pacifist. Saying that them funding the Iraq war and stuff doesn't really have the desired effect on me, being a pacifist. The most "pacifistic" in my family (my twenty-year-old sister and I are probably tied, she might have me beat, but I don't know).
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
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Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
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There shouldn't be what you're thinking of as a government. The government doesn't need all these programs. The thing about the War in Iraq is this. People--American citizens-- can fund abstinence education and stem cell. It would be illegal for a private organization to fund the War in Iraq. So it's different for that. The government doesn't have to do everything in this country you know. If you want your stem cell, stop spending so much money in campaigning and start spending it in stem cell.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
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Registered: November 29, 2003
Posts: 1911
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Hubb- why should the War in Iraq, or abstinence education, or anything else such as that be funded with my potential tax dollars? I disagree with them. Where do we draw the line? The government is politics. Politics are controversal. If we didn't fund controversal things, despite dissent by people like you, there would be no point to a government at all.
"If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated," p.60, "1984," by George Orwell
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Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
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quote: Originally posted by bluedemocrat:
WTF hubbabaloo you totally ignored my post. So here it is again:
Here's an idea. Super religious people, why don't you ignore stem cell research. When you children have Tay-Sachs syndrome and you grandfather has ALS, you can just watch them die slowly and painfully. No one is forcing you to take advantage of stem cell treatment.
Not everyone is religious and believes the same thing as you. You shouldn't try to hold back scientists. Many people who don't have your beliefs would and will benefit from stem cell research. People who use stem treatment will know the "risk" of going to hell. But it would be their choice.
hubbabaloo, this is mainly directed at you. Not everyone has your beliefs, so stop trying to impose them on us.
I'm sorry, but I didn't see your post. I have loved ones with diseases that would allegedly be cured by stem-cell, too. I feel really bad, but I'd feel worse if stem cell was being funded by the money that I will make when I'm a legal adult. I'm not trying to impose my beliefs on you. As I've said, go ahead and fund your stem cell. I'm not stopping. Just not on tax dollars. Not everyone has your beliefs either. Not everyone believes that life is yours to be, and that God doesn't care what we do.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
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Registered: March 10, 2005
Posts: 745
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(and as a neutral on this) I'm not going to get into a battle with yall on this, but why most people disagree with stem cell research is that it opens a can or worms of cloning and things of that sort. A lot of people arent so cold-hearted that they dont want to find cures for diseases, but that they dont want to start cloning babies.
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." - James Madison
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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5770
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WTF hubbabaloo you totally ignored my post. So here it is again: Here's an idea. Super religious people, why don't you ignore stem cell research. When you children have Tay-Sachs syndrome and you grandfather has ALS, you can just watch them die slowly and painfully. No one is forcing you to take advantage of stem cell treatment. Not everyone is religious and believes the same thing as you. You shouldn't try to hold back scientists. Many people who don't have your beliefs would and will benefit from stem cell research. People who use stem treatment will know the "risk" of going to hell. But it would be their choice. hubbabaloo, this is mainly directed at you. Not everyone has your beliefs, so stop trying to impose them on us.
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
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quote: Originally posted by northstar316:
too bad most of the rich are republicans.
There are tons of rich democrats and rich republicans. quote:
this is coming from a medical expert, right?
No, this is coming from spiritual confirmation.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
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