quote:

Originally posted by Euterpe:
And again, I'm going to assume you know that Babylonia was NOT near Egypt. Egypt had swampy areas, yes, but Babylonia was near the Euphrates. Stuck between the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean Sea. It was Arabia. Vast desert.

Yeah. I know. It's just...well think about it. You can drain swamps. Happened in the Illinois area a lot. What if it's been drained?

Anyways, you are probably more knowledgable than I in this subject, but I really don't like to think that people are murderers. I don't know why.

quote:

Originally posted by hubbabaloo:
Oh...This is interesting. Doing some research, I've found some people who say it could have been pancreatitis or appendicitis? Anything against those?

Alexander didn't clutch the right areas of his body for it to be appendicitis. Pancreatitis is a good theory, but Alexander did not exhibit the common symptoms of nausea, or vomitting. It also doesn't explain why he thought he was being choked. People like that one because Alexander was an alcoholic, but that disease is highly unlikely.

But none of this malaria accounts for what happened to him. Malaria takes 9-16 days to wear down someone's red blood cell count. Alexander was struck immediately with illness and almost carried out of the banquet.

And again, I'm going to assume you know that Babylonia was NOT near Egypt. Egypt had swampy areas, yes, but Babylonia was near the Euphrates. Stuck between the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean Sea. It was Arabia. Vast desert.

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Originally posted by northstar316:

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Well...seeing as the Hanging Gardens of Babylon have been destroyed, we really only have perceptions of it, right? Who knows what it was like?

well, the ruins, for one, tell us the shape and size.

Well, they give us an idea. But can we really assume that's how it was?

Egypt had problems with malaria, and you must remember that Mesopotamia is much drier today. Kawait and much of southern Iraq didn't exist. If you look on the map of the ancient world, Ur was a seaport, and is now about one hundred miles from the sea. Further north was a lush wetland which is constantly alluded to in temple records, as the Babylonians tried to drain it to create ariable land.

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Well...seeing as the Hanging Gardens of Babylon have been destroyed, we really only have perceptions of it, right? Who knows what it was like?

well, the ruins, for one, tell us the shape and size.

quote:

Originally posted by Euterpe:
Besides, the mosquitoes with carried malaria need dense, tropical climates to exist, not just water. They originate in tropical climates such as India. They simply can't exist in the desert of Babylon, despite its river.

Seeing as people have gotten malaria in the Babylon area...umm yeah.

Oh...This is interesting. Doing some research, I've found some people who say it could have been pancreatitis or appendicitis? Anything against those?

Someone who was joking around slightly, but amusing all the same: "Brain fever/hemorrage...after an Olympian overindulgence of wine...plus he had malaria, and all sorts of ailments/injuries from an admittedly self-imposed hard life of warfare and general mayhem. He had also received wounds from almost every type of weapon available at the time. Not to mention his possible exposure to radiation from UFOs during the seige of Tyre and in India."

Someone else joking around said this: "He is still alive, we must belive in him, he is the GREAT" (At least we would hope that the person's joking around)

Another joking around: "I think at one time, he was just driving his Volvo, smoking some weed in the car, and all of a sudden this cow crosses the road. He had to evade, hit a siderail, drove through a chicken's den and drove against this huge pink dildo that was standing in the middle of the wheat crops. Thank God he was such a small dude, so he managed to crawl ou there, but then he got trampled by ebil Protestant bastards. That's how he was killed...according to my history-book. "

"he was taken a crap and got really constipated and just keeled over "

"alexander best friend died and he went into a state of depression.A medicinal drug back then was poison and he upped this dosage because he wanted to conquer another country "

"He died when a giant lump of Cheese fell on him and he tried to eat his way out, but his stomch became so swollen it burst and he died in agony."

"beaten silly by an old lady with an umbrella."

"I think he stopped breathing or something and this subsequently caused him to die. . . "

Some people have fun with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Euterpe:
Exactly. And the prevalance of such mosquitoes in an enclosed place where he held his last feast? (Possibly the Hanging Gardens of Babylon?) REALLY unlikely.

Well...seeing as the Hanging Gardens of Babylon have been destroyed, we really only have perceptions of it, right? Who knows what it was like?

I agree with you on west nile, typhoid, and bad alcohol. West nile originated in the Rocky Mountains, if I'm not mistaken (which is also a possibility).

It might be that I'm determined to not believe that someone's murdered if there isn't proof. I'm kind of like that. However, I'm still inclined to think malaria.

True, there are people who would have had some pretty compelling motives. However, I don't like to think ill of people. It doesn't seem right. There isn't proof.

(You're right about the Alexandria thing, BTW)

There was no real pnuemonic plague within the band of people Alexander was surrounded with. And he did not have said whopping cough.

Malaria is nearly impossible. After taking a large gulp of mixed (extremely strong) wine, Alexander complained of a gut-wrenching pain in his upper abdomen. This is not a malaria-like thing. The fever would've taken a week to really affect him, not ten days to kill him.

Besides, the mosquitoes with carried malaria need dense, tropical climates to exist, not just water. They originate in tropical climates such as India. They simply can't exist in the desert of Babylon, despite its river.

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And the prevalance of such mosquitoes in an enclosed place where he held his last feast?

I doubt that he would feast, or spend any amount of time, in a closed room. Buildings of the Middle East, especially during this period, were often colonaded and faced an interior court. The entire theory of building was either to:
1.) Allow maximum flow of air by opening as much space to the winds as possible (most often used in public rooms)
2.) chill rooms using up to ten foot-thick walls, mainly used in private living quarters and palace architecture.
If he was feasting in a peristyled courtyard, it is quite possible, and you have to remember that, in the ancient world, especially in Mesopotamia, people would sleep on the roofs of their houses.

And what about pnuemmonic plague? It is caused by a bacteria that enters the lungs, which causes a high fever and a whooping cough. It is a rather quick death, and you can die of it from two weeks to (more usually) one day of catching the disease.

Exactly. And the prevalance of such mosquitoes in an enclosed place where he held his last feast? (Possibly the Hanging Gardens of Babylon?) REALLY unlikely.

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Alexander's time there is well-documented, and he had no signs or symptoms of malaria. A disease such as that can only stay dormant for 10 months, not two years (which is the span of time between his leaving India and dying in Babylon.)

Babylon is a city on a branch of one of the greatest rivers of antiquity. Malaria was always a problem in Babylon and Egypt. Tough he, like everyone else, would most likely have slept with a covering over his bed to stop misquitos from getting in, and closed his doors and windows at night to keep out the "bad air" (mal-aria)

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high ranking officer Seleucus

I could DEFINATELY see that. He killed his way into the throne of Persia, which later took his name.

Alexander was entombed in Alexandria, but died (of malaria, if you buy into the 'fever' theory) in Babylon.

There are so many theories it's almost impossible to count. Malaria, typhoid fever, intenstinal bug, West Nile virus, pnuemonia, alcohol poisoning, poisoned by Ptolemy, Roxanne, Cassander, Medius, Antipater, Seleucas, Barsine, Meleager, Perdiccas, Strateira, or his brother, Arriadaeus.

I truly believe Alexander was murdered. Here's why: Malaria is a disease carried and contracted by and from mosquitoes. Though Alexander did spend time in India, where this disease can be spread...Alexander's time there is well-documented, and he had no signs or symptoms of malaria. A disease such as that can only stay dormant for 10 months, not two years (which is the span of time between his leaving India and dying in Babylon.)

Typhoid fever - Um, no. Typhoid does not strike one person - it strikes everyone. Had Alexander contracted it, others would have, too.

Alcohol Poisoning - Again, nope. Alexander had almost immediate and intense pain RIGHT after drinking. Alcohol poisoning kills AFTER the alcohol leaves the body, 6-24 hours later. Also, Alexander was left in conscious, writhing pain -- not the comatose-like stupor alcohol poisoning makes. In addition, alcohol poisoning = vomitting. Alexander did not exhibit any signs of nausea, nor vomitting, according to the historical accounts of his death. Which were, obviously, well-documented.

West Nile Virus - Nope. A great theory, but a virus like that is relatively new, and could not have been so feral as to kill a (relatively) healthy 33-year old in ten days, nevermind become affective in one hour, 2,000 years ago.

That leaves us with one option: Intentional Murder. I doubt Ptolemy, as he would have no reason to kill Alexander. Alexander trusted him and would've kept him as king of Egypt. Roxanne I doubt VERY much. One, she adored Alexander despite his polygamy. Two, she stayed with Olympias after Alexander's death and the three (Olympias, Roxanne, and Roxanne and Alexander's child) were hiding. Olympias was probably VERY aware of her son's death, and would have never hid with Roxanne had she thought the woman had any hand in his death.

Personally, I'd go with the concubine Strateira, the second-in-command officer Perdiccas, high ranking officer Seleucus, or Antipater/his son Cassander.

Okay personally, I think Alexander is very fascinating, though I find him a disgusting man. I think he was a conqueror and a menace. Howerver, I think the two often go hand in hand.

I know this is really boring sounding, and not to be Johnny Raincloud, however, I think he died of a plain, boring old fever. And no, that isn't just so I can avoid thinking about it. In all honesty, I think he just caught a fever and died. Boring...yeah. I know.

I bought my dad a book on Alexander the Great for Christmas (my dad seriously has the largest historical library on the face of this earth...my family has a huge library in general) anyways, I think I'll steal it from him and read it.

Just a little thing...my history text book said that he died in Alexandria...okay, I'll have to go check that out farther.

No that clears it up very well.

She was messed in the head. She just wasn't evil. Fact is, all authors of the ancient world were men. Because of this, any woman who exhibited power and intelligence were portrayed as "evil." She was intelligent (many times ruling as regent when Philip was away at war) but she was, howsever, manipulative.

She was a follower of Dionysus, a cult seemed barbaric by the Greeks. She did in fact sleep with snakes in her bed, which further estranged herself from Philip, and Alexander for that matter.

Another strike against her is that everyone thinks she orchestrated Philip's assassination. I honestly don't think she did. I think it was just conveient. If she did, she's a freakin' genius because there was no way to prove it. (The most erroneous part of Alexander was having Alexander and Olympias present at Philip's assassination. Olympias wasn't in the country, and Alexander ..may have been there but did not run to his father's aid.)

She did have many people murdered. Those families were actually the ones who killed her because Cassander's soldiers refused to kill such an awe-inspiring and graceful mother of such a powerful king. She also murdered Philip's second wife and his son after Philip's death. So, she might've been crazy...but she was wicked smart.

If you have specific questions, just ask.

I want know more about Olympias she's always been portrayed as a evil and very messed in the head woman

...is awesome. Has been my hero since I was eight. I believe I am him reincarnated (Wishful thinking...)