"pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. it is a sexual obsession (in my book)."
but that begs the question? what is the difference between a sexual preferecne (or orientation as you wrote it) and a sexual obsession?
"i'm not anti-christian, or a bigot. so you cant say that for me! "
Yeah, you have been the most tolerant of my view points out of all of debating enemies.
"there are four religons (including christianity) that have GLBT members. not all religons are as bigoted and closed minded as christianity."
I'm sorry i said that the thread is filled with anti-Christian bigots. Let's both try to avoid labeling for the sake of insulting one another.
Judism, Islam, Catholism, and Chistianity makes up a community across the world and definantly in the US are larger than the homosexual community and all have teaching aginst homosexuality, which makes one who is riased with the idea of homosexuality being normal resistant to thier religion.
"we can learn from the animals as they can learn from us,"
I'm gonna doubt that as I have never seen a city created by any animal.
Give me an example of animals learning from us
---
"Animals (besides humans) do not have matrimonial ceremonies. They don't get married."
So obviously we can't look to them for an example of marriage, and that is my point.
"Yes, walk up to a dolphin and it that its lifestyle is immoral. Good luck with that, you homophobe."
That's different because animals are not moral creatures
"Having sex with more than one partner at a time is called an orgy. In a lifespan, having more than one partner is natural (hence boyfriends/girlfriends)."
but having more than one sexual partner is contrary to the idea of saving youself for a mate and remaining loyal to your spouse in marriage.
"Thus, both homosexuals and heterosexuals should have equal rights, even when it comes to marriage."
They don't provide equal benifits to our socitey (ie can never bring children into the population)and therefore our government has no reason to promote it.
"No. If anything, being raised in a homosexual household makes you more tolerant and understanding of people who are ostracized by people like you."
my idea is not otrization, it merely the government not promoting homosexual behavior.
"Proverbs: 11:17: "The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh.""
I'm not being unmerciful, I'm being ungraceful. There is a difference. mercy means not giving some one something (bad) they don't deserve, grace is giving someone something (good) the they don't deserve.
---
"So, do you hate the Jews as well?"
Why would I? how did you imply that?
"So? Going to Church is considered moral, but no animals go to Church, therefore it is unnatural. By your logic, if going to Church is unnatural, then it is immoral. See how your logic does not work?"
That's your logic. one can never expect animals to make moral descision because they are not moral. Marriage (ie the topic) is a moral choice, and there for we cannot derive a sense of morality from that which is amoral. ---
quote:But within marriage (ie the topic) people are only supposed to have sex with thier mate. You have failed to provide an example of monogomus homosexual animals, which is what marriage is: a monogomous relationship.
Many humans have multiple sex partners during their lifetime (woah, heterosexual people too!) and never get married. Marriage is not a requirement before you can have sex.
quote:But not nessicarily decent.
So? Going to Church is considered moral, but no animals go to Church, therefore it is unnatural. By your logic, if going to Church is unnatural, then it is immoral. See how your logic does not work?
quote:Mormanism a nothing but a cult sprouted by one man, and it sees Jesus as powerful as the Devil, and should not even be considered a part of chistianity.
So, do you hate the Jews as well?
quote:Yes, but being raised in a homosexual household makes you resitent to Christian doctrine, just like bieng a Christian makes you risistant to homosexuality. You really can't say that they are more open minded.
Wow, the ignorance... it burns. Gem said the point I would have made here quite nicely.
quote: But within marriage (ie the topic) people are only supposed to have sex with thier mate. You have failed to provide an example of monogomus homosexual animals, which is what marriage is: a monogomous relationship.
Animals (besides humans) do not have matrimonial ceremonies. They don't get married. I assumed that was a given, but apparently not. Marriage is not the topic here; homosexuality is. Are you even on the right thread? Animals mate with different partners all of the time. Animals are not strictly heterosexual or homosexual, so among the natural word, there exist no such thing as a monogamous relationship. Also, you don't seem to grasp the concept that, simply because one is homosexual, they are polygamists. How do you come to such an ill-informed conclusion?
quote: But not nessicarily decent.
Yes, walk up to a dolphin and it that its lifestyle is immoral. Good luck with that, you homophobe.
quote: what I meant was having sex with more than one partner (not nessicarrily at one time).
Having sex with more than one partner at a time is called an orgy. In a lifespan, having more than one partner is natural (hence boyfriends/girlfriends). Both homosexuals and heterosexuals have sex with more than one partner. What is your point?
quote: since you were using animals to potray a sexuality as decent, and good enough to be promote to the satus of having marriage set up for it
I used animals to show that homosexuality is natural. Therefore, human homosexuality is natural, as well. Thus, both homosexuals and heterosexuals should have equal rights, even when it comes to marriage.
quote: if would take that logic though which would be to justify marriage between more than two people because the apes and the dolfins have multiple sex partners, just like you pointed out how the beast of the field have same-sex partners to justify same-sex marriage.
Apes and dolphins can be homosexual and bisexual. This means that they have sex with same-sexed partners. This does not mean that they have sex with multiple animals, even if that be the case. Heterosexuals sleep with multiple partners as well as homosexuals. You have failed to establish a credible argument to support yourself. Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality; therefore both types of individuals should have the same rights. Understand?
quote: Mormanism a nothing but a cult sprouted by one man, and it sees Jesus as powerful as the Devil, and should not even be considered a part of chistianity.
Mormons hold a strong belief in Jesus, hence their alternate name of "Jesus Christ's Latter-Day Saints." They are Christian, and it really doesn't matter what you think, because they follow the teachings of the Bible (just like Baptists, Methodists, etc.) with their own interpretations.
quote: Yes, but being raised in a homosexual household makes you resitent to Christian doctrine, just like bieng a Christian makes you risistant to homosexuality. You really can't say that they are more open minded.
No. If anything, being raised in a homosexual household makes you more tolerant and understanding of people who are ostracized by people like you. And since you want to bring Christian morality into the picture, here's something to reflect on:
Proverbs: 11:17: "The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh."
quote: I am so tired i'll just respond to this one thing
oh, and i was so ready to fight! what a dissapointment...
quote: I mean to point out that pedophillia is another sexual orientation.
let me list for you the sexual orientations out there.
lesbian gay straight bi
thats it
just those four
transgender is not a sexual orientation. it is sexual identity.
pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. it is a sexual obsession (in my book).
i was very very offended when you put them in the same category. dont do it again. they dont belong anywhere near each other. i dont even want to hear the word again, not that you would care.
I am so tired i'll just respond to this one thing.
"dont go there. it is not. you dont want to get me mad. i cant do anything to you, but people in my immediate vicinity could be in danger. i am deeply offended by this comment. it is not. and you know it."
I'm not talking about in terms of morality.
I mean to point out that pedophillia is another sexual orientation.
quote: Sorry I didn't respond to your staments, depressedwavemaster, but i am a wee bit out numbered.
ive been in that situation on this site. you'll survive.
quote: I know, but you have to be way more polygamous than a homosexual to have the same chances at getting an STD
no, you just have to have sex with the right (wrong?) people. STDs travel fast. homo or hetero related.
quote: I'm talking about sanation, for example, the Euros don't tend to shower as often.
of course you are
quote: Okay maybe it is more like pedophilia
dont go there. it is not. you dont want to get me mad. i cant do anything to you, but people in my immediate vicinity could be in danger. i am deeply offended by this comment. it is not. and you know it.
quote: because this website is filled with anti-Christian bigots.
i'm not anti-christian, or a bigot. so you cant say that for me!
quote: But besides that, just because it appears in nature doesn't justify it.
why not? humans are part of nature, the human animal is part of nature. science has proven it.
quote: It's not nessecarrily open-minded because thier family structre will make the child closed to the idea of Christianity (and damn near every other religion) because its family structure is fundementally opposed to it.
no. youre wrong. my father knew a gay man. and guess what? he was christian. he was christian. not opposed to it at all. i have a gay friend. he's buddhist. i have a trans friend and she's neopagan (not to mention me). i have a bi friend and she's satanic. there are four religons (including christianity) that have GLBT members. not all religons are as bigoted and closed minded as christianity.
quote: Polygamy is found in nature do you support polygamous marriages
there are different lifestyles in nature (you should take the class animal behavior if your local college or h-school has it. it could help your ignorance a bit) polygamous societies. solitairy societies and complex societies. (i think there was one more... damn, final in two days and i cant remember it!) back to the point... our society is complex. it is not in our nature to be polygamous.
quote: Incest is done by animals.
true you are, but once they reach sexual maturity is is taboo. marriage between siblings is dangerous to the infant's health. mutations can occur. i dont think you can say that homosexuality is dangerous to the infant's health, can you?
quote: Do we really want to take lessons on sex from lower life forms?
animals are not lower than us. we are all connected, spirit, nature and humanity. we are all one. we can learn from the animals as they can learn from us, and as we all can learn from spirit and as spirit can learn from us. it is a circle, an ever going circle. the great thing about such a circle is that not one is above the other. we are all equal. do you really think you are that much better than everyone else?
"If you think that people only have sex because they love the person they're being sexually active with, then you are sorely mistaken. People enjoy the act of sex, hence the popularity of prostitution, pornography, etc. People enjoy the act of sex, and many times love is not even remotely considered a factor. Fornication prospers.."
But within marriage (ie the topic) people are only supposed to have sex with thier mate. You have failed to provide an example of monogomus homosexual animals, which is what marriage is: a monogomous relationship.
"Homosexuality is found in nature, thus it is natural."
But not nessicarily decent.
"I'm dumbfounded on why you could not comprehend that. Baboons have sex with the same gender, as well as dolphins, meaning they are homosexual/bisexual. Having sex with the same gender is different from polygamy, which is simply having more than one mate at a time. How the hell you bind homosexuality with polygamy is ridiculous. "
what I meant was having sex with more than one partner (not nessicarrily at one time). since you were using animals to potray a sexuality as decent, and good enough to be promote to the satus of having marriage set up for it, if would take that logic though which would be to justify marriage between more than two people because the apes and the dolfins have multiple sex partners, just like you pointed out how the beast of the field have same-sex partners to justify same-sex marriage.
"FYI: Mormons (who are Christian) practiced polygamy before it was made illegal. Rah rah, Jesus! Don't bother pulling that religion card on us when you're backed into a corner; it's quite pathetic."
Mormanism a nothing but a cult sprouted by one man, and it sees Jesus as powerful as the Devil, and should not even be considered a part of chistianity.
---
" Being a homosexual does not automatically make you anti-Christian. The reverse is also true: being a straight boy does not make you a real Christian. "
Yes, but being raised in a homosexual household makes you resitent to Christian doctrine, just like bieng a Christian makes you risistant to homosexuality. You really can't say that they are more open minded.
---
" Now it is very near impossible to shun a child completely from Christianity. It's one of the biggest religions in the world, and it's everywhere. "
quote: Were is your dencency? were not suposed have sex for pleasure soley, but rather love is to play a big reason for it.
If you think that people only have sex because they love the person they're being sexually active with, then you are sorely mistaken. People enjoy the act of sex, hence the popularity of prostitution, pornography, etc. People enjoy the act of sex, and many times love is not even remotely considered a factor. Fornication prospers..
quote: But besides that, just because it appears in nature doesn't justify it. For example dolphins are obviously polygamous (I mean if it has sex for pleasure) do you support polygamous marriage?
Homosexuality is found in nature, thus it is natural. I'm dumbfounded on why you could not comprehend that. Baboons have sex with the same gender, as well as dolphins, meaning they are homosexual/bisexual. Having sex with the same gender is different from polygamy, which is simply having more than one mate at a time. How the hell you bind homosexuality with polygamy is ridiculous.
FYI: Mormons (who are Christian) practiced polygamy before it was made illegal. Rah rah, Jesus! Don't bother pulling that religion card on us when you're backed into a corner; it's quite pathetic.
quote:because this website is filled with anti-Christian bigots.
No, because this website is filled with people who can think for themselves and do not depend on an ancient book written by wrinkly, old, prejudiced men who thought they were inspired by God.
Do not twist Christianity to justify your hateful views. Christianity's main message is to love everyone, whether you like what they do or not. You may not like the homosexual lifestyle, but by speaking out with your unsupported claims and your pathetic insults, you are not helping spread the Christian message you claim to adhere to.
quote:Well it did show you how the expriment was done.
It is an experiment made by a site of doubtful reputation. I would not use any of its results as "proof."
quote:It's not nessecarrily open-minded because thier family structre will make the child closed to the idea of Christianity (and damn near every other religion) because its family structure is fundementally opposed to it.
Being a homosexual does not automatically make you anti-Christian. The reverse is also true: being a straight boy does not make you a real Christian.
Get over yourself and find some decent information before you try to tell us that we are the ones who are wrong.
quote: Incest is done by animals. do you support marriages between relatives? but also there this other quetion: Do we really want to take lessons on sex from lower life forms?
Well, "lesser" animals don't really see it as 'family' and 'relitives'. It's more of 'pack' or 'herd'. Your comparision is more of saying if someone in this town had sex with another person in the same town, is incest. It doens't work the same with "lesser" animals.
Lower life forms, eh? However, animals (unlike humans) never resort to killing their own kind out of spite. For ranking reasons, ill health, etc. But an animal will not sit down and think, "Hey, I don't like him. I'm gonna go kill him." Humans, on positively countless occasions will do just that.
"Well rito, gemini, and xia, he didn't respond to us; he got rocked and he knows it, congrats to all of us for our hard work." If only we were so fortunate.
"It's not nessecarrily open-minded because thier family structre will make the child closed to the idea of Christianity (and damn near every other religion) because its family structure is fundementally opposed to it." Now it is very near impossible to shun a child completely from Christianity. It's one of the biggest religions in the world, and it's everywhere.
because this website is filled with anti-Christian bigots.
---
" Quick point of reference: Humans are animals. Also, dolphins are similar to humans in that they have sex for pleasure (and not simply for reproductive purposes) and that they sometimes engage in sexual activities with the same sex. Just thought I'd add that. "
Were is your dencency? were not suposed have sex for pleasure soley, but rather love is to play a big reason for it.
But besides that, just because it appears in nature doesn't justify it. For example dolphins are obviously polygamous (I mean if it has sex for pleasure) do you support polygamous marriage?
---
" You have no evidence proving that it is accurate. A site can be assumed to have inaccurate information until proven otherwise. Find a redoubtable source to back up your claim, and we will look at your "prof." "
Well it did show you how the expriment was done.
" Then it would help if you said so, now wouldn't it? Besides, if making the children more open-minded is harmful, then I think we should hurt more children. "
It's not nessecarrily open-minded because thier family structre will make the child closed to the idea of Christianity (and damn near every other religion) because its family structure is fundementally opposed to it.
---
" Many studies have been done that prove that homosexuality is found in nature. Thus, natural. Homosexuality is uncommon, yes, unnatural, no. "
Polygamy is found in nature do you support polygamous marriages
---
" and dwm is right, homosexuality isn't just found in humans. It's been found in dogs, cats, giraffes, dolphins, sheep... and to think these animals are motivated to do this only by instinct... and instinct is not a selective issue. It's something that you're born with, otherwise, it would be imprinted behavior, and i have never seen a dog watch it's dad screw it's mom up the but so it could learn what to do. "
Incest is done by animals. do you support marriages between relatives? but also there this other quetion: Do we really want to take lessons on sex from lower life forms?
" the same thing could be said of you, so bite your tongue. And be a good christian and be true to what your bible tells you, "let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone.""
This has nothing to do with my sin, but rather the issue is if we want the government to promote homosexuality though giving the homosexual marriage?
Sorry I didn't respond to your staments, depressedwavemaster, but i am a wee bit out numbered.
Here Goes:
" for instance, heterosexuality. there is a phrase i would like you to become familiar with: STD. it doesnt happen just to us GLBT people, you know. (I second what icm said) "
I know, but you have to be way more polygamous than a homosexual to have the same chances at getting an STD
" are you ignoring americans? *shakes head* poor, poor child, in denial. you should really see a shrink for that. "
I'm talking about sanation, for example, the Euros don't tend to shower as often.
" do you know what happens when you live together with someone for more than four days? tensions build. the rope tightens. it all gets bottled up. everyone yells. youre heterosexual. you've yelled. i dont even need to know you to know that. you've probably hit people too, ("domestic abuse"?). your sexual orientation has nothing. i repeat NOTHING to do with whether you're an abusive person or not. "
The Bureau of Justice Statistics (U.S. Department of Justice) reports that married women in traditional (ie nuclear) families experience the lowest rate of violence compared with women in other types of relationships.
(SOURCE: "Violence Between Intimates," Bureau of Justice Statistics Selected Findings, November 1994, p. 2. )
" *laughs* you're saying I'm addicted to girls? what about the guy who spends hours looking at porn? thats addiction. i've never layed my eyes on porn and never will. i'm only addicted to the person i have crush on right now, and that can be said for any heterosexual person. "
"The person in charge of that research used to be at the fore front of the gay rights movement as the guy who removed homosexuality as a mental disease, because he belived that it was unchangable, but has since changed his mind."
Yeah, and the two men who started the ex-gay movement quit it and then married each other. Your point is?
quote: Yeah, but the sexualities of animal are different than that of a human (ie only 'animal' that has sex facing one another)
Quick point of reference: Humans are animals. Also, dolphins are similar to humans in that they have sex for pleasure (and not simply for reproductive purposes) and that they sometimes engage in sexual activities with the same sex. Just thought I'd add that.
Obviously because you have not given icm any "evidence" to counter yet.
quote:More name calling how mature. You have no evidence for this.
You have no evidence proving that it is accurate. A site can be assumed to have inaccurate information until proven otherwise. Find a redoubtable source to back up your claim, and we will look at your "prof."
quote:Homosexuality is unnatural
Many studies have been done that prove that homosexuality is found in nature. Thus, natural. Homosexuality is uncommon, yes, unnatural, no.
quote:This is you true light. This all you are- a bigot. If you had a brain in you, you'd know that that the biggest (people) killers of the centry are all regimes that placed themselves above God, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the list goes on, and that's just for this century. You also have to include Rome, remember how they would sacrifice people to the Gladiators and lions? Remember who stoped it? A Christian (ie Constintine)
I do not know about anyone else, but that paragraph made absoutely no sense.
In either case, I agree with icm. Religion hurts more than it helps.
quote:Yeah, but i'm talking about adoptive children.
Then it would help if you said so, now wouldn't it? Besides, if making the children more open-minded is harmful, then I think we should hurt more children.
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