Being gay isn't the only component to a person. It's only part of it. I personally would hate it if I was simply identified as "straight." There is so much more to a person than their sexual orientation. I also don't believe homsexuality is a choice. No one wakes up one day and says, "Hey, I think I'm gonna be gay today!" Who does that about being heterosexual anyway? Who you're attrated to is not a choice. It's just something that happens within that you can't control. I think 10% of the population is straight. And another 10% is gay. The rest of us (That's 80%) are in that fuzzy gray area. A friend of mine once said, "I'm straight so far, but who's to say I won't fall in love with a woman next month?" I think that's true. You could think you're heterosexual, but someday you could meet someone of the same sex and realize that you're attracted to them. Life is a great big surprise, and if anyone thinks they have all the answers, I'd bet that they're wrong. Btw, I just had to brag a little: I live in Vermont, we have civil unions, and I think it's grand.
quote:There WERE homosexuals in Biblical times; I have not disputed that.
(the word 'Sodomy' comes from Sodom, a Biblical city known for homosexual activity)
I'm not talking about Sodom. Obviosuly that's the "bad" part of it. But David was considered the only "true" king, and yet his relastionship with Jonathan wasn't innocent.
quote:I'm not "homophobic" either. I do have a friend that is gay; I don't hang out with him and he knows how I feel about it, but I am not a homophobe.
He's your friend but you don't hang out with him? do you even say hello to him in school when people won't see you together?
quote:I just don't like the fact that same-sex unions can be recognized, gays are allowed to adopt, and gays can be eligible for money for being fired or not hired based on their sexual orientation.
Because obviously homosexuals are rapists and crappy parents, and no straight people would abuse their children.
quote:That's not being homophobic.
no, not at all.
quote:And the friends who consider themselves Christians while at the same time believing in evolution are NOT Christians - according to the Bible.
According to the way you interpet the bible.
quote:If God had planned for evolution, He would have told us.
Maybe he did and you didn't listen right? Or maybe it slipped his mind.
quote:And I DO believe homosexuals can be changed from their ways; I met a guy at the Billy Graham crusade three weeks ago who told me his entire testimony of how God got to him one night!
That person was either in denial, or was never really gay.
quote:There are ways to break away from sin, including homosexuality.
Like forcing yourself to marry someone you're not attracted to. Fun.
quote:As far as the whole thing about Ruth and Naomi goes, I'm not going to comment on that because, like many of you, you don't know much about it
Really? I don't? Funny, because I thought I studied it at school, and I don't seem to recall flunking.
so we went from homosexuality to discussing God. okay question- if Jesus Christ was just some guy from 2000 years ago who lived, died and did all that, then why are we discussing him wif such passion today??? tell me that!
Cos it strikes ppl in their heart, and they feel the need to deny God and Jesus Christ. every single eprson in this earth feels the need to worship someone. this is why we worship football stars anmd rock singers.
Simply, we are trying to deny God cos He wants to make us live by His standards- which today are seen as too hard, we give up simply cos Hisd way is moral!
So accept that if we are still discussing Him 2000 years later, still trying to create and deny His existance, there must be something within your soul which tells you the truth, He is alive!
As for homosexuality- it is considered a sin, and it is a moral chice ppl make to be that way.
There WERE homosexuals in Biblical times; I have not disputed that.
(the word 'Sodomy' comes from Sodom, a Biblical city known for homosexual activity)
I'm not "homophobic" either. I do have a friend that is gay; I don't hang out with him and he knows how I feel about it, but I am not a homophobe.
I just don't like the fact that same-sex unions can be recognized, gays are allowed to adopt, and gays can be eligible for money for being fired or not hired based on their sexual orientation.
That's not being homophobic.
And the friends who consider themselves Christians while at the same time believing in evolution are NOT Christians - according to the Bible.
If God had planned for evolution, He would have told us.
And I DO believe homosexuals can be changed from their ways; I met a guy at the Billy Graham crusade three weeks ago who told me his entire testimony of how God got to him one night!
There are ways to break away from sin, including homosexuality.
As far as the whole thing about Ruth and Naomi goes, I'm not going to comment on that because, like many of you, you don't know much about it.
It amazes me that everybody knows everything; if they knew anything at all like they claim, they would know there is a GOD and that that GOD forgives, loves and comforts us!
quote:Okay, so then what am I supposed to believe? The Bible states those things, and I believe them.
I'm not going to tell you what to believe. Obviously, I can't force you to believe anything. But there are tons of choices in what to believe. You can believe that there were gay people in the bible, or you can chose not to believe it. (But really, how much does David love Jonathan more than women? i mean, he killed a girl's husband because he lusted after her. Obviously he loved women. He had 1,000 according to the bible. and ten the "friendship" and "loyality" between Ruth and Naomi. It's said to be the most romantic book in the bible. But between who?). You can believe that homosexuality is a sexual oriention and that it can't be helped. That there's nothing wrong with it. That the bible was written thousands of years ago and not every fact in it is correct (sperm is a terrible thing to waste? Because it RUNS OUT? And you're supposed to ignore a woman on her period?).
quote:If I don't believe those things, I'm no longer a Christian.
According to who? I know a couple of people who consider themselves Christians but aren't homophobic/belive in evolultion/don't believe every word in the bible.
quote:Okay, you're right, I'm not an expert in Wiccan or other religious beliefs, but I do know enough about them to know that they aren't the true way to eternal life - I know this by first-hand experience.
Err... you know this, how exactly? You have an eternal life?
Joey, you said that Becca is correct that only Christians can be right. But Becca is not a Christian, therefore she is wrong, therefore she is right.
When you say that "only Christians are right" do you mean that about everything? What should we do with all the non-Christians if everything they say is wrong? They're quite a pain to have in this world, I'd say. Put them in Hell where they belong.
No wait, it would get kinda crouded, seeing as there are over 4 billion of them.
STOP OFFENDING THE MAJORITY OF ALL PEOPLE ON EARTH!
"You seem to believe thst only Christians can Possibly be right."
That is exactly what I'm saying.
So what's your point?
"Just because your bible says Witchcraft is punishable by death, Homosexuality is wrong, and All gods besides yours are wrong, that is not a valid reason to believe those things."
Okay, so then what am I supposed to believe? The Bible states those things, and I believe them.
If I don't believe those things, I'm no longer a Christian.
Just like if you (you know more than me, so correct me) didn't follow what the "rede" was, you wouldn't be a Wiccan anymore?
Anyway, do you get what I'm saying though?
See, the Bible is clear about certain things. We can't have people being "offended" and then have them turn around and distort the original meaning so it fits their viewpoint (i.e., homosexual pastors, same-sex unions, prayer to Mary, saints)
Sooo if it can't be valid to believe them, then I can't be a Christian.
Okay, you're right, I'm not an expert in Wiccan or other religious beliefs, but I do know enough about them to know that they aren't the true way to eternal life - I know this by first-hand experience.
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." [King James Version]
Modern translation:
"Do not allow a woman who practices witchcraft to live."
The message was translated - not taken away or added.
First of all, Not all witches are female. There are male witches, as the only name for a witch is 'Witch' The word Warlock? that is someone who twists the wiccan rede to his own will, basically the opposite of a Wiccan/Witch. Kinda like those 'Muslim' Terrorists you seem so uninformed about. A Sorceress and a Witch are two very different things. A witch/Wiccan is a follower of a religious belief. I am a witch. I do not know any sorceresses, and i actually don't believe there are any modern sorceresses.
Just because your bible says Witchcraft is punishable by death, Homosexuality is wrong, and All gods besides yours are wrong, that is not a valid reason to believe those things. I mean, that would be like running around killing adults who are eating Trix cereal for breakfast while screaming "Trix are for Kids!!" Just because the box says so.
Also, you completely missed the point about 'Poisoner' and "Witch'. A 'poisoner' is, obviously, a person who poisons people, most likely to try and murder them. A WITCH does no such thing. A witch is what i am, I follow the rede,(I've told u about my religion before, you know what i believe)and NEVER conciously hurt anyone.
You have your stories crossed.
And did I meantion that in Wicca it's considered wrong and unfair to tell others things like
quote: Rather, "We're going to pray for you because what you are doing is a sin in God's eyes."
Basically, saying that 'if you don't believe in My god, and follow MY rules, you are going to go to Hell'
THAT is a translation, Case. In. Point.
quote: Other religious faiths are sins (idol worshipping) and yes, the Bible, in the OLD Testament, stated punishment as stoning and death and the like.
Hmm... I wonder what other religions have to say about yours. I would be most interested in hearing how a Muslim, Buddhist, Jew, or a follower of any other religion would take that quote. I bet they would be pretty insulted by that remark, saying yours is the only true god. But then again, i bet they feel the same way about their own beliefs and THEIR holy book. Now, would you mind proving them wrong as well? I at least do not say you will go to some sort of hell for not thinking the same way as me. I only want you to see the errors in your beliefs so that you will understand you cannot disregard other's beliefs. I think that ANY of the religions on this earth could possibly be correct, and i think that the diversity of them all is wonderful. But you don't seem to think that.
You seem to believe thst only Christians can Possibly be right.
Now, i have the feeling you will counter this with one of your oh-so-eloquent remarks about Christianity being so widespread, so of course it must be true.
Well, i have two arguments to counter that as well. 1. Think for a second about how Christianity became so popular, hmm? People decided that only they were right, and decided to wage war on those different than them. Crusades would be an example of that. You know, those people fighting people in 'The name of God' and what not. So, these people win the wars and convert the residents of that particular Area into Christians, because they are OBVIOUSLY the only valid religon.
Not only Chritianity has fought these kinds of Wars. Other religions as well. But it cannot be argured that those kinds of events never took place. Men going into the jungle and converting natives and the like. It. Has. Happened.
2. Ever heard of Nazi Germany? Most of Germany believed Hitler was this great guy, believed that the Jews and ect. were the cause of all their problems. So then a little thing called the Concentration camp was born, where Jews would supposedly be 'punished' for being who they happened to be.
Many people followed hitler, but does this make them right?
'What is popular is not always right, what is right is not always popular'
Well, I never said you should "die" for being involved in Witchcraft. I personally would not kill you or anybody for that matter - and if someone says that, they aren't truly a "Christian."
Other religious faiths are sins (idol worshipping) and yes, the Bible, in the OLD Testament, stated punishment as stoning and death and the like.
True Christians aren't saying "Becca, stop doing that or we'll kill you."
Rather, "We're going to pray for you because what you are doing is a sin in God's eyes."
And as far as the addition/subtraction thing goes, did you not just TRANSLATE those Bible verses?
You know, in high school English, the play Julius Caesar is written in both the old English of the time and in modern English (so people will understand it better).
Did the actual messages change? Or were they TRANSLATED?
Case in point:
"Thou shall not have any other gods before me."
That verse could be translated to:
"You cannot have any other gods."
See, the phrase was TRANSLATED, not actually added or taken away.
The verses you posted were TRANSLATIONS; they still had the same meaning, but were in different forms.
How bout this:
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." [King James Version]
Modern translation:
"Do not allow a woman who practices witchcraft to live."
The message was translated - not taken away or added.
Do you get what I'm saying now?
Addition, subtraction and translation are three totally different things.
So, you're saying if you think someone has 'sinned' you have a valid reason for killing them? Oh, this is rich. Please remind me of the 7 deadly sins so i can tell you which I'm guilty of so that I will receive fair punishment!
quote: My God said anybody who takes away or adds to the original 66 books of the Bible will have a place in Hell.
uh... are you sure about that?
'1604, King James 1 of england, the same guy whose name is on the english translation of the bible, passed his witchcraft act. Under this act, the punishment for using witchcraft became hanging. Previously in England, this crime entailed one year in jail. This act is also associated witches with the devil and made any act of consorting with the devil a crime punishable by death. But James went one step further. He was so terrified of witches that he actually said to have changed the bible. Where the text once read, "Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live," in his translation it says, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." '
~The Complete Idiots Guide To: Wicca and Witchcraft (and might i remind you that there IS a complete idiots guide to Christianity so that is not biased)
Lets see here... My grandfather was a Reverend so he has many versions of the bible lying around the house... Lets see... here in Exodus 22:18, there is a passage that says " Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".
Yet, in another version of the bible: "You shall not permit a sorceress to live" And another: "You shall not permit a female sorceress to live"
Various Biblical translations render this verse as:
American Standard Version "Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live." The Answer: Put to death any woman who does evil magic. Amplified Bible: You shall not allow a woman to live who practices sorcery. Good News Version: Put to death any woman who practices magic. James Moffatt Translation: You shall not allow any sorceress to live. Jerusalem Bible: You shall not allow a sorceress to live. King James Version: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Living Bible: A sorceress shall be put to death. Modern Language Bible: Allow no sorceress to live. New American Bible: You shall not let a sorceress live. New American Standard Bible: You shall not let a sorceress live. New Century Version: Put to death any woman who does evil magic. New International Version: Do not allow a sorceress to live. New Living Translation: A sorceress must not be allowed to live. New Revised Standard Version: You shall not permit a female sorcerer to live. New World Translation: You must not preserve a sorceress alive. The Promise: Contemporary English Version: Death is the punishment for witchcraft. Revised Standard Version: You shall not permit a sorceress to live. Revised English Bible: You must not allow a witch to live.
It seems to me that the action of changing the bible is done all the time.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but you're always saying MY god says this so it must be true. Well, if everything the bible says is true, should you not go out and stab me? I'm witch/wiccan, and so i should die. but OOPS! the bible also says not to kill.
I forgot to add this before my five minutes were up.
I am not a homophobic! I am for gay rights! When I say that being gay is abnormal, I mean that the majority of people aren't gay! Lethandedness is abornal too, but it's still natrual! Being gay is natrual! It's not a choice! I'm sorry if I offended anyone!
Please ignore what I said about Jesus or God, everyone. What I meant by that comment was, does homosexuality hurt anyone? It's just that I figured a lot of people would be writing that homosexuality hurts Jesus's soul, or something like that, so I added the Jesus or God thing. I guess I was a little unclear.
What I want us to be talking about here is, does homosexuality actually hurt any mortals? Or is it a sin just because it is a sin - because God doesn't want you to do it?
so you only think its wrong because your GOD says it is...so you have no say in it?? there is no goood reason why it is wrong besides YOUR GOD says it is....
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