Why are we talking about abortion in a topic on marriage? Someone always brings up homosexuality and abortion in different boards. I find that interesting.
quote: Jamaica. You said that you are a Bible-reading, God-fearing Christian right? Well, if so i have some news for you. This lifestyle isn't new. If you read the old testament it mentions this lifestyle. This lifestyle has been around for hundreds of years. It is nothing new.
So??? are you just willing to repeat history and not look forward to something nice in the future? I think that the most common problem with people and with youth these days is that they tend to look and repeat the past instead of making a difference for the future. If the past you have are bad memories, or bad events, why do you go back to it???? I think thats why many people end up getting confused with what they really want because they always look at the past and forget what is really most important, which is the future generation.
quote: If you didn't, but rather condone abortion, you would simply be saying that your life isn't worth living because of an accident of your birth.
No. If you are the child of rape and you support woman's choice, you are saying, you support woman's right to choose even if it means you wouldn't be born. It doesn't say that your life is not worth living, but you realize your mother's life is important aswell.
Hmm, I can't tell if you are trying to equate the mother's life with the child's in this instance (I'm presuming that you are). I do agree that each life has equal value, but in the circumstance of abortion the cessation of life is a certainty for the child but less of a certainty for the mother (taking into consideration that some but not all may choose to committ suicide). Therefore you would be trading the certainty of death for the child with the possibility of death for the mother. The mother's life is important, as is the hypothetical child's, and I don't think that such a child would support abortion if only because of a possibility of a mother taking her life (I use the case of suicide because it is usually the extremity of depression and those who do not committ suicide obviously do not consider their life ruined beyond the point of retribution). Of course maybe I am interpreting you wrong and have gone off on a completely unrelated (or at the very least incoherent) tangent. If such is the case I apologize.
It's times like this that make you sad you're alive/Standing with a fool's fixed grin/Don't pretend you can't see me cry/It's not like I have crocodile skin
quote:Originally posted by CelticNewAger: PLease, that site is VERY biased. I ahve been affected by rape, and I was going to commit suicide if I kept that baby.
Agreed, a site entitled "righttolife" would necessarily be biased toward a pro-life stance, but again, I could not find statistics which would prove or disprove my theory on the possible shift of perception on the abortion issue if one was the child of a rapist. I do not think that the story provided by the site is complete fiction though so at present that is the only evidence I have to generate any sort of conclusion, meager though it is. Please don't view by as a stubborn traditionalist pro-lifer who just spouts off Biblical justification for things (not that there's anything wrong with that of course other than an inflated sense of moral superiority) I am merely trying to approach the issue from the most logical viewpoint I can. Granted, situations involving abortion are usually emotionally trying, such as in your case, and therefore all of my theories are simply speculation. If I arrive at a pro-life stance in all cases, I might abandon my ideals if I was raped. I withhold judgment in such an instance. All that I mean to suggest is that there is a possibility for the polarization of the perspectives of rape victims and the children of rape victims on this issue.
It's times like this that make you sad you're alive/Standing with a fool's fixed grin/Don't pretend you can't see me cry/It's not like I have crocodile skin
quote:Originally posted by Aguagon: When you get right down to it, aside from a number of government benefits that gays and lesbians are heroically showing they can live without, marriage is as artificial as plastic.
Maybe the way it is done today, but back in the days of acient Israel, what two people would do for marriage is sign a few documents, be marked with a symbol of the family bieng married into, (this was only a minor part of marriage, and probably not even considered getting married) and then the two would go into a tent together to get married.
I wish our system of marriage was a bit more pragmatic than just a mere ceremony. we need a system shows that sex is serious, and not to be taken lightly, and that reinforces monogomy(SP?).
"End Overpopulation! Support Socialized Medicine" - protestwarrior.com
quote: If you didn't, but rather condone abortion, you would simply be saying that your life isn't worth living because of an accident of your birth.
No. If you are the child of rape and you support woman's choice, you are saying, you support woman's right to choose even if it means you wouldn't be born. It doesn't say that your life is not worth living, but you realize your mother's life is important aswell.
"You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore
jamaica: "still it WAS a child..." when you abort it is NOT a child..
about marriage...I haven't thought about the subject that much but here goes... I have no idea if I'll ever marry and if I do as sad as this may sound to you it will probably be because of the benefits you get from marriage, not because it means "commitment, faithfulness and responsibility", I think you can have that without being married... I do plan on having kids and a "lifetime partner"(well if I can find someone that can stand me for that long!!)some day but marriage is certainly not in my plan, and as I've said before the only reason would be because of the benefits...well that's all for now...
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. - E.B.White
quote: Maybe the pro-lifers wish you were the child of a rapist.
Why would prolifers want someone to be the child of a rapist?
Because just like you are presuming that one's prolife stance would be dramatically altered if one were raped, I am likewise suggesting that if one were the child of a rape victim one would be more inclined toward a prolife outlook. If you didn't, but rather condone abortion, you would simply be saying that your life isn't worth living because of an accident of your birth. I cannot find a statistic over the suicide rates among children of rape victims (which would impact my conclusions about this as if it were over fifty percent I would acquiesce) but I am at least founded in my assertion by this site http://www.righttoliferoch.org/nforgotten.htm I am not presuming that I would have the strength to follow through with such a doctrine when I believe that only someone who has personally been affected by a rape can know the phsychological and emotional pain involved. But in this I include both the mother (or would-be-mother) and the child. Not sure if my ideas are expressed clearly. Let me know if they aren't. Or if you have the statistics I couldn't find.
It's times like this that make you sad you're alive/Standing with a fool's fixed grin/Don't pretend you can't see me cry/It's not like I have crocodile skin
quote:In fact, I wish you were raped right now, in the worse possible way. That seems to be the only way you'll ever understand.
Amen to that.
EarthGoddess, you and your post just summed up the feelings of myself and almost everyone else on every abortion board ever made on this site towards her. And every other "pro-lifer" like her.
Maybe the pro-lifers wish you were the child of a rapist. (No animosity meant, just some perspective. I like to find the inversion of things...)
It's times like this that make you sad you're alive/Standing with a fool's fixed grin/Don't pretend you can't see me cry/It's not like I have crocodile skin
quote:In fact, I wish you were raped right now, in the worse possible way. That seems to be the only way you'll ever understand.
Amen to that.
EarthGoddess, you and your post just summed up the feelings of myself and almost everyone else on every abortion board ever made on this site towards her. And every other "pro-lifer" like her.
"If voting could really change things, it would be illegal." & "A conservative is a person who lives in a past that never existed. "
THATS JUST A PATHETIC EXCUSE.. In AFRICA, many teens have babies long before they reach 15.... and they never put it up for abortion.. Rather, they just have it and take care of it coz children are part of the world.
Africa? You're using Africa as an example? Where the poverty level is, I believe, one of the highest if not THE highest in the world, and is the leader in AIDS. That's not a very good example, because bringing children into this world at 15 with AIDS and living an impoverished life is ridiculous. However, you can't blame 'em because the resources and knowledge of safe sex is nearly non-existent. THAT is why kids at 15 keep their children. They don't have a choice.
And as for the rest of your post, which I won't copy again...
What the hell did that have to do with marriage? Nothing. It was a painfully ill-written piece of garbage that made this entire board stink. Celtic's right -- mind your own business. And have a little class.
Ahem. As for marriage, I don't know if I am or will ever be really capable of it. I've still got a lot of life, so as I get older, I might consider it more seriously. I doubt it very much, though. If I did, it would be simple and as non-denominational as I could make it. But this committ-o-phobe doubts marriage a lot.
quote: Just by having that kid of yours in abortion long ago proves you dont love a child... Even if it was the product of your rape, still it WAS a child...
Dammit jamaica. I tried to help you, yet you obviously refused to listen. What would you do if you were brutally raped at a young age, realized you were pregnant, had no way to take care of that child, was scared to tell your family or friends? If you actually went through Celtic's situation you may understand where she's coming from. In fact, I wish you were raped right now, in the worse possible way. That seems to be the only way you'll ever understand.
Celtic has already went through enough in her life. She doesn't need you to make it any worse. So please stop being such an evil ignorant b**** towards her. Stop judging her for something that happened a long time ago that can't be changed. Stop belittling my religion. And stop being such an idiot. You are the lowest form of Christian. And quite possibly, the lowest form of human excrement, although that would be an insult to fecal matter. You're a complete waste of precious oxygen. You don't know how to be humane or helpful, so please stop trying. If you think I'm being bad, well I can definetly get worse. At least I'm not blaming someone for something they have no control over. A**hole. I hope your gentials rot.
My reasons for desiring marriage are admittedly purely religious and purely selfish. Marriage is a sacred institution in my religion, therefore I choose marriage. That does not mean everyone has to. My reasons also have to do with my affinity for traditionalism (I know, conformist). Also, marriage (theoretically) is meant as a binding union, a genuine commitment that (is meant) to guarantee unity through thick and thin. Perhaps I want this security in my life. I must admit that I fear being alone when I am old and think that a family is a way to ensure against such an eventuality. But I would never presume to force my traditionalist view on this matter on someone else. People can achieve everything that marriage achieves without all the hassle. I suppose its just the ceremony which means something, it is an outward expression of internal intentions. Of course, in our modern society, where multiple divorces and casual sex are so predominant, I don't think that many marriages fulfill their purpose (other than of course from the economic perspective).
It's times like this that make you sad you're alive/Standing with a fool's fixed grin/Don't pretend you can't see me cry/It's not like I have crocodile skin
quote: You??? get married??? You dont even like children!!!!!!!!
Right. Because the only point of marriage is children. It isn't love or commitment, it's the production of non-b@stard children.
quote: SOME people LONG for babies and they would try to find means of getting one even if its just an adopted child.
Yet there's thousands of babies waiting to be adopted in China, Bangladesh, Korea, Russia, across Africa, and so on. Why don't they take those ones?
quote: Just because you still have many egg cells to spare doesnt mean you can just kill one baby when the time isnt right.
Actually, most women only have seventy to eighty eggs that will fertilize, which really isn't a lot. But you'd know that from nursing school, wouldn't you?
What makes getting married so important in the first place? It's not like you're really making a lifetime commitment, b/c divorce is lways an option, just like breaking up is always an option for couples. But if your married you have to deal with paperwork just to dump someone.
People say getting married is a special moment in their lives, but I kind of think that the little unplanned moments are more special than some big rehearsed moment. I mean it would be fun to get all dressed up and say "I love you" in front of everyone, but I don't think it's that important.
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