Next time, conflictingzest, read everything instead of the parts you want to read.
I would NOT say it's very moral for rape to be punishable by death in the city if not initially discovered, unpunishable in the country if not initially discovered, and punishable by 50 shekels and having the MARRY the woman you just RAPED.
However, you MUST support this and believe it should be instituted as law if you support biblical laws about homosexuality and believe they should be instituted as law.
If you don't, you have 0 logic, 0 consistency, and 0 case.
Of course, you already have 0 brains, so it kinda fits.
quote:What the hell is up with the long posts, make your point and leave.
Oops, I'm sorry! I forgot; you have the attention span of a dying gnat.
quote:How do I know its the truth, because. Just accept what I say.
Gee, if that's not convincing, I don't know what is. How about some proof for a change, honey?
quote:Also, who here is gay? If you answer no, then why do you take up for these sinenrs?
I "take up" for these "sinenrs" because they are human beings who deserve their rights as much as anyone else.
Bucketnuts
quote:"friend"? Tally is a pimp. I have a freakin girlfriend from 3 years! Damn, you don't posses logic.
Because we all know that being a "friend" is the same thing of being a "pimp." At least I can spell "possess" correctly and do not have to swear to get my point across. Also, having a girlfriend for "3 years" is no big deal, nor does it prove a thing. You are 15 years old, which means you were dating her when you were 12. Big accomplisment there. </sarcasm>
quote:Oxymoron.
Mmm... not really. Contrary to your belief, it is possible for someone to believe in the Christian idols without actually having a Christian affiliation.
quote:What reliable source did that come from?
Wow, I thought I made that clear that it was my observation based on my experience, hence the "I based my statement on my experience" and "it is an observation I have made." I guess you must be pretty dumb.
quote:It's both. You brought it up. And the bible is accurate. Explain the bible code. That's only in the Torah books anyway.
*Sighs* So dumb it almost hurts...
quote:We get close enough.
But it's not perfect, hence, it is not completely accurate.
quote:Again, not homophobic. I do have a violent past, but it's behind me. I only fight when I have no other option.
Right. You're not homophobic, that is why you made a gay-hating board. You are past your violence, but you will still beat the crap out of someone if they make you angry for whatever reason.
quote:Some laws were written for that culture.
And, because they were written for that culture, would it not make sense to either discard those laws or update them for our new culture? Any logical person would respond with a "yes."
Zesty
quote:Because that was just funny. He didn't even bother reading the Topic or the first post.
First off, it was me. I thought you said you could read. Second off, "he"'s a she. Third, we are not debating the BIBLE here, we are debating homosexuality. Well, at least we were until you Bible-thumpers brought it in. Besides, he just gave it the title he did in order to get attention. He is not a true Christian in any aspects (I can tell you that if he talked to anyone from a different religion, I would be ashamed to have to admit that I ever was a Christian because of Bucketnuts).
quote:So basically we should be allowed to use the bible because religion is part of this debate. It actually is about our religion. It's like saying prove 2+2=4 without using math or that you should prove evolution without using animals.
*Sighs again* In a debate that is not completely religious (or has completely Christian participants), you cannot use religious sources at all because not all of us are Christian. Saying "because the Bible said so!" is not proof at all because, like I said before, not all of us depend on the Bible as much as you do.
quote:How have i been impolite? when was i aggresive? I know i'm assertive with my beliefs and i am a faithful christian, but i am pretty sure i haven't been aggressive.
Whatever. Just to let you know, having good people skills is a thing you need in real life.
quote:that's a moral law from Leviticus.
If you are going to believe one part of Leviticus, you have to believe it all. Do you think you are going to hell if you touch a pig, have interaction with menstruating women, or for shaving? You cannot pick and choose which laws you are going to abide by. I think my mom's magnet applies here: "The 10 Commandments are NOT multiple choice." - God.
quote:I can definitley see soem moral law there? can you?
He was not asking you if you saw that moral laws in there, because any idiot can see them. He was asking you if you think something written for the time that it was written in should still be abided by today.
His point in asking you this was to show how ridiculous it is to follow ancient rules for things that happen differently now.
(Sorry Smurf if that isn't what you meant, but I'm pretty sure it is.)
quote: Because many of us may have friends or famliy that are gay. They are not evil monsters hiding under your bed so they can eat your feet at night. They are just regular people with regular ho-hum lives.
I don't.
quote: I'll accept what you say when you start doing some actual research. Find a gay person and talk to them for 5 minutes.
And then...
quote: I dont know how you can believe a book that has instructions on how to sell your daughter and buy slaves. It also makes women look like garbage. The bible puts women down so much it kinda makes me think the people who wrote it like men a little tooo much.
Some laws were written for that culture.
quote: So basically we should be allowed to use the bible because religion is part of this debate. It actually is about our religion. It's like saying prove 2+2=4 without using math or that you should prove evolution without using animals.
Thank you.
quote: I happen to like Zombie Jesus quite a bit...
Well comrade let's take those verses within context. In the beginn ing of that chapter they speak of disputes and taking them to judges. It also speaks of non-moral laws, "4 Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." These are not moral laws or married couple. What about other parts of the chater? such as "13 Do not have two differing weights in your bag-one heavy, one light" so really if you lok at the whole chapter you see these are not moral laws.
quote: 22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death-the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you. 25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, 27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her. 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [3] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
So here it's saying that you shouldn't have sex before marriage (agreed upon in christianity today), says that you should die if you rape someone and that the girl has not sinned by being raped, and stands by it's law of not having sex before marriage. I can definitley see soem moral law there? can you?
quote: Also, who here is gay? If you answer no, then why do you take up for these sinenrs?
Because many of us may have friends or famliy that are gay. They are not evil monsters hiding under your bed so they can eat your feet at night. They are just regular people with regular ho-hum lives.
quote: How do I know its the truth, because. Just accept what I say.
I'll accept what you say when you start doing some actual research. Find a gay person and talk to them for 5 minutes.
Conflictingzest, you say that your anti-homosexuality is moral law from the Bible...but...
25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
25:6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
25:7 And if the man like not to take his brother's wife, then let his brother's wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband's brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband's brother.
25:8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;
25:9 Then shall his brother's wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother's house.
is also moral law from Deuteronomy, and
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.
22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Tell me if you think both of these moral laws should be followed? If you don't how the hell do you sleep at night?
I dont know how you can believe a book that has instructions on how to sell your daughter and buy slaves. It also makes women look like garbage. The bible puts women down so much it kinda makes me think the people who wrote it like men a little tooo much.
ComradeSmurf, i have no idea what you were talking about in your last post.
i wann know who said this:
quote: This is an anti-gay board, not a Bible board. Now get back on topic, or is that too hard for you?
Korith, I had no problem with you until you tried to prove that the Bible is accurate. I really do not mind if you guys want to believe in the Bible; that's great, go for it, if that is what you are into. Just do not bring something that not everyone believes in into a debate. You would not appreciate it if another religious person was like, "but being a homosexual is ok by my religious book, so you are obviously wrong!"
I do not believe in the Bible because I just do not think that anyone should follow a book that is two thousand years old because it may or may not be accurate. I think we should all be living in peace, but the Bible sends a violent message in several of its stories (like stoning the adulterous women), though I do agree with its Golden Rule.
I think the Bible was fine for its time period, because that was when it was written. Culture has changed drastically and things that were ok then are not ok now. Just like the things we do now would not have been ok back then. Do you catch my drift?
I do not want to argue with you anymore about the Bible, Korith. Let's just agree to disagree and keep it out of this debate.
Because that was just funny. He didn't even bother reading the Topic or the first post. I quote:
quote: My Methodist brothers and sisters: Please help us stop gays in our church!
quote: Our Book of Discipiline says that gays and the Church are not compatible. But there are some gay pastors in our church making an uprising and threatining to tear us apart. Please tell your pastor to stop this before our church splits! We don't need gays in our Church! Or in any other church!
So basically we should be allowed to use the bible because religion is part of this debate. It actually is about our religion. It's like saying prove 2+2=4 without using math or that you should prove evolution without using animals.
quote: No one is trying to "walk all over you" on this board. That is what this board is doing to gays. And, if you do not want to give everyone the impression that you hate gays, I suggest being more polite and less agressive about your views.
How have i been impolite? when was i aggresive? I know i'm assertive with my beliefs and i am a faithful christian, but i am pretty sure i haven't been aggressive.
quote: Being a homosexual is not one of the moral laws though (if you are talking in the 10 Commandments way). Or, if it is, could you please tell me where so I could go find it?
quote: 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Korith, what gives you the right to determine what parts of the Bible are to be taken literally and what parts are not to be taken literally? I happen to like Zombie Jesus quite a bit...
quote:How do I know its the truth, because. Just accept what I say.
quote: I'm not accusing you of being homophobic. It's Bucketnuts and his "friend" Tallywacker that are the really big homophobes here who I was referring to. If I sounded like I was accusing you before, I'm sorry. And yes, I do know what you mean by it being an uphill fight. Just look at what's been going on on this board.
"friend"? Tally is a pimp. I have a freakin girlfriend from 3 years! Damn, you don't posses logic.
quote: I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus, but I really do not care what the Church thinks or what it does, as long as it stays out of my private life and business.
Oxymoron.
quote: I'm not Homophobic!
Ditto. I'm just against the gay thing.
quote: Well, I based my statement on my experience. 9 out of 10 really religious I know are bigoted. Hence, most religious people are bigoted. What I said is not a bigoted statement; it is an observation I have made.
What reliable source did that come from?
quote: This is an anti-gay board, not a Bible board. Now get back on topic, or is that too hard for you?
Korith, I had no problem with you until you tried to prove that the Bible is accurate. I really do not mind if you guys want to believe in the Bible; that's great, go for it, if that is what you are into. Just do not bring something that not everyone believes in into a debate. You would not appreciate it if another religious person was like, "but being a homosexual is ok by my religious book, so you are obviously wrong!"
I do not believe in the Bible because I just do not think that anyone should follow a book that is two thousand years old because it may or may not be accurate. I think we should all be living in peace, but the Bible sends a violent message in several of its stories (like stoning the adulterous women), though I do agree with its Golden Rule.
I think the Bible was fine for its time period, because that was when it was written. Culture has changed drastically and things that were ok then are not ok now. Just like the things we do now would not have been ok back then. Do you catch my drift?
I do not want to argue with you anymore about the Bible, Korith. Let's just agree to disagree and keep it out of this debate.
It's both. You brought it up. And the bible is accurate. Explain the bible code. That's only in the Torah books anyway.
quote: I never said we couldn't translate languages, moron. I said that we cannot translate directly. There's these things... they're called idiomatic expressions. My French teacher is always pointing them out and then telling us what it is sort of like in English. They never translate directly, and they only sound good and make sense in French.
For example: avoir faim - that directly means "to have hungry." Its closest English equivalent that makes sense is "to be hungry." If you did "to be hungry" directly into French it would be "etre faim" but that is inaccurate. That is why direct translation is not possible a lot of the time.
Not to mention that there are normal expressions and verbs that do not mean the exact same thing in English. Like, there are 2 different verbs in French for "to know" but one is to know facts, and another to know people, but in English we only use 1. There is tons of stuff like that which could screw up translation.
We get close enough.
quote: 1) Religious people are almost always bigoted. You, Bucketnuts, Tallywhacker, etc, are just a few examples. 2) Being gay does not = being anti-religious. It means you are hated by religious people, such as yourselves. 3) There are bigoted Christians. Again, look at you three for example.
Not a bigot.
quote: Whatever. You have already proved to us that you a homophobic moron. Only now you have shown us that you are violent as well. Just stop trying to defend yourself; it is making you look even worse.
Again, not homophobic. I do have a violent past, but it's behind me. I only fight when I have no other option.
quote: Why would you want to blow up the moon? Once it's gone the ocean tides will increase and we'll all drown.
The moon was possibly created from extra gas and dust floating around the earth. No, the moon did not create the universe. The moon is not "God", it is one Goddess (Luna, Diana, Isis, whatever you want to call her) out of 10 other Gods and Goddesses I believe in, the moon is just more important to me.
Screaming point right there. Why would we want to blow it up anyway? But God initated the big bang.
What the hell is up with the long posts, make your point and leave.
Gays are sinning because of their lifestyle, don't argue that with any ****, it's the truth. How do I know its the truth, because. Just accept what I say.
Also, who here is gay? If you answer no, then why do you take up for these sinenrs?
quote:Idioms where not translated, for the fact that they can easily be mistranslated, the Bible is full of Hebrew words that are ambiguous in meaning, so they where left in Hebrew.
Ok, thank you. That was much better to read.
quote:Ok well most Non-Christians I have met are Bigots. However neither statement is right [yours or mine] they are merely subjective conclusions, and close minded one's at that. If I only knew 1 black person, and he was a gang member, would it be fine for me to assume all blacks are gang members? No. So you know some bigoted people, these people are not the census of ALL Christian [religious] people. For you to assume so, is bigoted, whether you like it or not.
*Shrugs* I do not judge people by their religion, skin color, gender, etc. I judge them by who they are and all I have found is that religious people (the ones who are really into it; not quite fanatics, but well on their way to it) are very bigoted. *Shudders* I really dislike sanctimonious people.
I am not being bigoted if I say what I said; it is just my opinion, and my opinion is subject to change because I have not set it in stone. If you want me to change my opinion, all you have to do is be a nice, respectful person who listens to what others tell you and accept who people are, even if it goes against what you believe.
quote:I'm not Homophobic! Ask DWM. I've lobbied for, debated, alienated myself from the majority of my friends, out lashed against, and condemned for my stance on gay rights. I'm not proud that there are people whom I associate myself with, who are flamboyant bigots, but they are still nonetheless my people. I am trying, I really am, but I suppose you know as much as I do, how steep this uphill fight is.
I'm not accusing you of being homophobic. It's Bucketnuts and his "friend" Tallywacker that are the really big homophobes here who I was referring to. If I sounded like I was accusing you before, I'm sorry. And yes, I do know what you mean by it being an uphill fight. Just look at what's been going on on this board.
quote:You obviously haven't read the material I posted about the accuracy of the Bible. I used proven historical fact to prove the Bible, I wouldn't believe in the Bible if I though it was wrong.
I did read what you wrote, but I am not going to believe in the Bible. My mom has been trying to convince me for years. Like I told you before, I am not really a Christian. I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus, but I really do not care what the Church thinks or what it does, as long as it stays out of my private life and business.
I will try to be the best person I can be, but I do not think I can be the best person I can be if I follow the rules laid down by the Church. Frankly, I do not agree with some of the Church's rules, and I am not going to be a non-practicing Catholic nor am I going to try to fight the Church about it; I would rather have no association at all and just be known as a theist.
quote:Well you don't want to here my explanation about this, because it wouldn't be on the topic. But.. "Let you who have not sinned, cast the first stone." -Jesus pretty much sums up why we don't stone people anymore.
And let me tell you, I am very happy about that. Violence doesn't solve anything; it usually just makes it worse. >__<
See? Isn't this better? I'd much rather talk to you than argue with you.
Is God not being able to defeat iron chariots an idiom? What about possesing a donkey and talking to someone? Is John eating a book and getting a stomach ache an idiom? What about God dropping in for lunch with Abraham? Idioms? Idiocy?
quote: I could not understand a word you just said. Could you please rewrite that, if you feel the need to clarify?
Idioms where not translated, for the fact that they can easily be mistranslated, the Bible is full of Hebrew words that are ambiguous in meaning, so they where left in Hebrew.
quote: Well, I based my statement on my experience. 9 out of 10 really religious I know are bigoted. Hence, most religious people are bigoted. What I said is not a bigoted statement; it is an observation I have made.
Ok well most Non-Christians I have met are Bigots. However neither statement is right [yours or mine] they are merely subjective conclusions, and close minded one's at that. If I only knew 1 black person, and he was a gang member, would it be fine for me to assume all blacks are gang members? No. So you know some bigoted people, these people are not the census of ALL Christian [religious] people. For you to assume so, is bigoted, whether you like it or not.
quote: Right. I am bigoted just because you cannot change my mind about homosexuality or my religious beliefs, because you guys have shown me absolutely no evidence that could change my mind in either case.
And no, "Because the Bible says so" does not justify homophobia. And no, "It is accurate!" does not prove that the Bible is accurate.
I'm not Homophobic! Ask DWM. I've lobbied for, debated, alienated myself from the majority of my friends, out lashed against, and condemned for my stance on gay rights. I'm not proud that there are people whom I associate myself with, who are flamboyant bigots, but they are still nonetheless my people. I am trying, I really am, but I suppose you know as much as I do, how steep this uphill fight is.
You obviously haven't read the material I posted about the accuracy of the Bible. I used proven historical fact to prove the Bible, I wouldn't believe in the Bible if I though it was wrong.
quote: I think we should all be living in peace, but the Bible sends a violent message in several of its stories (like stoning the adulterous women), though I do agree with its Golden Rule.
Well you don't want to here my explanation about this, because it wouldn't be on the topic. But.. "Let you who have not sinned, cast the first stone." -Jesus pretty much sums up why we don't stone people anymore.
quote:The Majority of the Idioms int he Bible where not attempted to translate, for the reason of possibly mistranslating. They where not translated Into idioms either. Also, I doubt even if they where, it would make a signifigant difference.
I could not understand a word you just said. Could you please rewrite that, if you feel the need to clarify?
quote:This just goes to prove your Bigoty and ignorance. If I said, "Pagans are almost always fat, reject lesbains." You would explode. What you said is not different.
Well, I based my statement on my experience. 9 out of 10 really religious I know are bigoted. Hence, most religious people are bigoted. What I said is not a bigoted statement; it is an observation I have made.
quote:Neither does being religious mean anti-honosexual.
First case, it's "anti-homosexual." Second, it usually does.
quote:As well as bigoted non-Christians as you have proven.
Right. I am bigoted just because you cannot change my mind about homosexuality or my religious beliefs, because you guys have shown me absolutely no evidence that could change my mind in either case.
And no, "Because the Bible says so" does not justify homophobia. And no, "It is accurate!" does not prove that the Bible is accurate.
quote:Fling them at me sweetheart.
This is an anti-gay board, not a Bible board. Now get back on topic, or is that too hard for you?
Korith, I had no problem with you until you tried to prove that the Bible is accurate. I really do not mind if you guys want to believe in the Bible; that's great, go for it, if that is what you are into. Just do not bring something that not everyone believes in into a debate. You would not appreciate it if another religious person was like, "but being a homosexual is ok by my religious book, so you are obviously wrong!"
I do not believe in the Bible because I just do not think that anyone should follow a book that is two thousand years old because it may or may not be accurate. I think we should all be living in peace, but the Bible sends a violent message in several of its stories (like stoning the adulterous women), though I do agree with its Golden Rule.
I think the Bible was fine for its time period, because that was when it was written. Culture has changed drastically and things that were ok then are not ok now. Just like the things we do now would not have been ok back then. Do you catch my drift?
I do not want to argue with you anymore about the Bible, Korith. Let's just agree to disagree and keep it out of this debate.
Zesty
quote:You're whole "were you there?" argument is getting tiresome. We know alot of things without being there. Otherwise all history would be worthless. How do you know the holocost hapened? Or that Hitler was real? You weren't there? How do you know?
She does have a point. You weren't there two thousand years ago when Jesus was performing miracles. We do know that Jesus was a real person, because several old documents say so, but when it comes to religion, anything can happen.
Um, maybe we know about Hitler because we have millions of people who said it happened, and it got recorded at the time?
quote:I have never said or done anything in hate to anyone on this board. I have not hated homosexuals i am actually rather accepting but when their beliefs conflict with my beliefs, i'm not gonna let them walk all over me.
No one is trying to "walk all over you" on this board. That is what this board is doing to gays. And, if you do not want to give everyone the impression that you hate gays, I suggest being more polite and less agressive about your views.
quote:Actually i was offering other reasons that could be why they are homosexual. I made no claim that those were the exact reasons why. How do you know so much about the sub-conscious? And it's different than being hit. I think sexual abuse is different than being hit once.
All forms of abuse are traumatizing. Believe me, I know. I wrote a whole term paper on it. There are a lot of factors with abuse, that is why there are so many different traumatizing results. But becoming gay is not one of them. Usually they shy away from the gender of their abuser, and they may not get over it, but they do not "turn gay" because of it.
quote:Actually you are failing to see the difference between the moral laws (like the ten commandments) and ritualistic laws (like not shaving your beard). When Jesus died he got rid of all the ritualistic laws you needed to follow to be with God. That was symbolised by the ripping of the curtain. He didn't change the moral laws you needed to follow to remain pure.
Being a homosexual is not one of the moral laws though (if you are talking in the 10 Commandments way). Or, if it is, could you please tell me where so I could go find it?
quote:Well the bible (HIS word) says he is like that. I don't believe he would let his word go out if there were any discrepancies between it and him.
Refer to what I said to Bucketnuts about it being His Word.
You're whole "were you there?" argument is getting tiresome. We know alot of things without being there. Otherwise all history would be worthless. How do you know the holocost hapened? Or that Hitler was real? You weren't there? How do you know?
quote: You don't have to follow a religion perfectly to be that religion, if you do, that is bull ****.
So what if Murders HAVE REPENTED! That does NOT BRING BACK THE VICTIM FROM THE DEAD. THAT DOESN'T ERASE THE CRIME. IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY A FAMILIES PAIN AND SORROW
You don't have to be a perfect christian but you should try to be. As well repentance is a big part of christianity, it's not just saying your sorry.
repentance
There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance. (1.) The verb _metamelomai_ is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Matt. 27:3).
(2.) Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with (3) the cognate noun _metanoia_, is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised. Evangelical repentance consists of (1) a true sense of one's own guilt and sinfulness; (2) an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ; (3) an actual hatred of sin (Ps. 119:128; Job 42:5, 6; 2 Cor. 7:10) and turning from it to God; and (4) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way of his commandments. The true penitent is conscious of guilt (Ps. 51:4, 9), of pollution (51:5, 7, 10), and of helplessness (51:11; 109:21, 22). Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps. 51:1; 130:4).
Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
And your right it doesn't change the fact they killed someone but that doesn't stop them from being a christian. We might still see their past sins but God no longer does because they have repente.
Xia
quote: People who are true christians follow God's ultimate wish: Love everyone as you love yourself. I think you, Bucketnuts, and Tallywhacker should try it before claiming to be Christians.
I have never said or done anything in hate to anyone on this board. I have not hated homosexuals i am actually rather accepting but when their beliefs conflict with my beliefs, i'm not gonna let them walk all over me.
quote: You and your Bible-thumping homophobic friends are the ones who know nothing about homosexuality. If you did, you would realize that the sub-conscious thing you tried to say was completely wrong. That's like saying that if someone hit you once then you would start hitting everyone.
Actually i was offering other reasons that could be why they are homosexual. I made no claim that those were the exact reasons why. How do you know so much about the sub-conscious? And it's different than being hit. I think sexual abuse is different than being hit once.
quote: Being gay does not go against any of God's laws. Again, if you are going to believe one part of Leviticus, you have to believe all of it. If you believe in Leviticus, you must believe that having interaction with menstruating women, touching anything pig-related, or shaving will result in you going to hell.
Actually you are failing to see the difference between the moral laws (like the ten commandments) and ritualistic laws (like not shaving your beard). When Jesus died he got rid of all the ritualistic laws you needed to follow to be with God. That was symbolised by the ripping of the curtain. He didn't change the moral laws you needed to follow to remain pure.
quote: Who knows if God does it that way. Do not forget; He has not talked to us since about the time that we killed His Son.
Well the bible (HIS word) says he is like that. I don't believe he would let his word go out if there were any discrepancies between it and him.
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