First thing I agreed with from these guys:

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ok, in case you missed it this is a religious board. "Pursuit of happiness" is not in the Bible anywhere. If I am wrong I will leave this site forever, but I of course am not. The issue is not secular, the issue IS religious. It is wrong to act on homosexual urges. Bogey is right. They shouldn't be looked down upon as human beings, but that doesn't mean that we should condone gay sex.

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Of course you can form a thought on your own, but it is a meaningless thought that has no backup or support.

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The Bible is not proof of anything. Therefore, you cannot use it as "backup or support."

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Newsflash: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is in the Bible. And, since you are so keen on following the Bible, why don't you go follow the Golden Rule and then come back here and try debating with us for a change?

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If I were doing something sinful, I would love to have someone tell me it was wrong. If you were never taught anything, how would you know what is right and what is wrong? We are here to teach.

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*This post has proudly been deemed racism free by the Honorable Coalition of Bushsupporter, Marine16, notsojoey, and FreeMarketLover and their endless pursuit to cast out the bigotry that has infiltrated youthNOISE.*

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Racism free. Yet again, how does race have to do with homosexuality? Prejudice may be the word you carelessly missed.

And, also yet again, not everyone here follows the same religion THEREFORE, we must step out of that box of BS and into laws that we all must follow, and that are written in our Constitution. (in America)

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ok, in case you missed it this is a religious board. "Pursuit of happiness" is not in the Bible anywhere.

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Newsflash: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is in the Bible. And, since you are so keen on following the Bible, why don't you go follow the Golden Rule and then come back here and try debating with us for a change?

ok, in case you missed it this is a religious board. "Pursuit of happiness" is not in the Bible anywhere. If I am wrong I will leave this site forever, but I of course am not. The issue is not secular, the issue IS religious. It is wrong to act on homosexual urges. Bogey is right. They shouldn't be looked down upon as human beings, but that doesn't mean that we should condone gay sex.


"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

*This post has proudly been deemed racism free by the Honorable Coalition of Bushsupporter, Marine16, notsojoey, and FreeMarketLover and their endless pursuit to cast out the bigotry that has infiltrated youthNOISE.*

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I don't think that gays should be hated or mistreated or discriminated - that would be just as sinful. It's just that by using reason and God's revelation we can deduce that homosexual activity is sinful.

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Homosexual activity is sinful, but being gay is not.. so, it's all right for me to love a girl, but I can't ask her out, even if she too is gay? Stepping out of the religion block, whatever happened to pursuit of happiness? Does my asking a girl out somehow limit your happiness or freedom? Does it limit hers?
Let's get in this from another perspective; if I were straight and I asked a guy out, does that action somehow limit your happiness or freedom? Does it limit his?

Take what you will from that, but logic deems that the answer to each of those questions was "no".

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my faith is too strong to be affected by someone being gay near me.

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I don't think that gays should be hated or mistreated or discriminated - that would be just as sinful. It's just that by using reason and God's revelation we can deduce that homosexual activity is sinful. It is not a social acceptance, but a religious belief. But, it's true that the problem of homophobia is there and is wrong. You should not discriminate gays, but you also shouldn't agree and preech that is it fine to be gay.

Of all the sins that exist in ours and every church, wouldnt you rather say stop adulterers or stop people that act with religious pride. other things are killing the ability for christs word to spread and people that single out a single sin because of a social unacceptability rather than faith ensure that non-christians will always see christians as self rightious rather than the loving people that christ asks us to be. my faith is too strong to be affected by someone being gay near me.

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And so what if the Bible thinks that homosexual marriage is wrong? Is it impossible for you to form a thought of your own?

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Opinions are formed by using resources. The Bible and the Church are resources. Thus, they help you form an opinion. What a stupid question. Of course you can form a thought on your own, but it is a meaningless thought that has no backup or support.

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Glad to see a christian actually admit that the bible is contradictory.

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Duh.... the Bible is contradictory. You didn't think that we are supposed to read it literally did you? I mean it contadicits itself in the first to chapters of Genesis. It has two different creation stories to start it off. Any simple minded person would realize that it is contradicitory and all Catholics do. Obviously, this is not the way to read it. In order to correctly understand the Bible, one must read it contexually - that is consider the history, the sources, the time when it was written, the different forms of writing, what the author message was, etc. You are foolish to think that the Bible is meant to be read literally. It is ALL true, but the meaning is seen by contexual reading.

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Can you prove that the Bible is wrong? I think that God created the world and the universe. Is that so wrong?

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Yes, because you can't use God if you want an argument to be real and legit. I may believe in unicorns, but that doesn't mean I can throw them into an argument to prove that homosexual marriage is right.

And so what if the Bible thinks that homosexual marriage is wrong? Is it impossible for you to form a thought of your own?

"You all have to admit that we could use with a few more of these decent Christians."
Yep.

-rito

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Korith wasn't so bad...

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Ok, so the only decent Christian we have had around here lately was Korith. You all have to admit that we could use with a few more of these decent Christians.

"We haven't seen one of those around here since... I don't remember when."
Korith wasn't so bad...

-rito

flames, Earthgoddess sums up my thoughts exactly.

As an odd little note to flames: Thank you for being such a nice and respectful Christian. We haven't seen one of those around here since... I don't remember when. ^__^

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Say my best friend decided that for kicks she was going to rob a store. Would I think that robbing the store was wrong to do? Of course!

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There is a difference between robbing a store and a same sex relationship. If your friend robbed a store, the store would lose money, the store owner would be in emotional distress, the store owner would have to work extra hours to replace the money lost, which could affect family life. A same sex relationship is a loving relationship between two people who may be hated or even killed for being who they are.

Robbery causes harm, homosexuals are usually recieving it.

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but it would be contrary to the example Jesus gave us.

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Glad to see a christian actually admit that the bible is contradictory.

You are 100 percent correct Earthgoddess. In the Bible, Jesus does say to love thy neighbor.

Matthew 19:19 says, "love your neighbor as yourself."
John 13:34 says, "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
John 15:17 says, "This is my command: Love each other."
Romans 13:9 says again, "Love you neighbor as yourself."

The above are just a few of the many times Jesus commands us to love others. However, just because I love someone does not mean that I am not allowed to disagree with something that they do. Here is a hypothetical example of loving while disagreeing or disliking an action: Say my best friend decided that for kicks she was going to rob a store. Would I think that robbing the store was wrong to do? Of course! Would I say that she should receive consequences for her actions? Absolutley! But would I love her any less, reject her, or disown her? Certainly not! Just as I believe that robbing or stealing is wrong, I also believe that homosexuality is wrong. However, I do not hate people who are homosexuals. I have friends that are homosexuals and I still love them though I do not like what they do.

In my previous post I pointed out that in 1 Corinithians(a part of the New Testament not the Old Testament by the way) it says that adulterers, homosexuals, drunkards, etc. will not inherit the kingdom of heaven unless that person believes in Jesus Christ and repents(turns and goes in the other direction) for what he or she has done. However, the Bible does not only condemn those who have committed the above acts. 1 John 3:14-15 it says, "We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him." The death being referred to is hell and life refers to heaven. So, if I were not to love others, including homosexuals, I could not call myself a Christian because I would be condemned for not loving them. In fact, my not loving them would be the same as if I had murdered them myself. Now, you may try to argue with me about the Bible saying that "no murderer has eternal life in him" (him refers to Jesus Christ) means that God will not forgive a person of the sin of murder. However, I submit to you that murdering is the same as any of the other above mentioned wrongs of adultery or sexual immorality in that a person can be forgiven for doing them. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins." So, if a person who has committed a sin, such a murder or homosexuality, admits that what he or she has done is wrong, God will be just and forgive that person.

There is a parallel that can be drawn between homosexuality and adultery within the Bible from 1 Corinthians. My view on whether or not someone should be killed for the sin of homosexuality is derived from the example Jesus gives in regards to a woman who had committed adultery, found in John 8:1-11. Basically, this passage tells of how Jesus was in the temple when the Pharisees brought before him a woman who had committed adultery and asked him what they should do with her. The Pharisees were testing Jesus with this question because they knew he taught that people should love one another and yet he was a Jew who was supposed to be bound by the Jewish laws of the Old Testament, which said that the woman should be killed for her adultery. Jesus answered by saying, "‘If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.'" Stoning, or throwing stones at a person until he or she is dead, was the method used for killing people convicted of the crime of adultery during Jesus' time. So, by telling the Pharisees to throw a stone only if they themselves have never sinned, Jesus was saying that only someone who hasn't sinned should kill the woman. The Pharisees left and Jesus asked the woman, "Has no one condemned you?" She responded, "No, sir." Most importantly though is what Jesus says after that; he says, "Then neither do I condemn you. Go now and leave your life of sin." Thus, Jesus said your sins are forgiven, but go and do not commit this sin anymore. The same laws that would have sentenced this woman to death for her adultery would have sentenced her to death if she had instead committed the sin of homosexuality. However, Jesus forgave her of her sin of adultery, but commanded her to go out and not commit the sin any longer. So, it is my conclusion that people, such as Earthgoddess' best friend and his boyfriend, should not be killed for being homosexuals because not only is it not showing love towards them to kill them, but it would be contrary to the example Jesus gave us.

The above are my answers to some of the questions people have raised to me. I have a busy schedule and am working on answering other questions as I have the time. That is not to say that I have all the answers, because I certainly do not. But I will do my best. And thanks to those of you who are seriously considering what I have to say and raising objections; this, after all, would not be a very good discussion if people didn't do both.

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"An atheist is someone without any invisible means of support." Ever think about that?

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Atheist believe in the power of themselves and their own actions, and the consequences of those actions.

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I limit my beliefs to what I believe in.

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"I" automatically limits it to you alone, therefore, it is not a base for argument.

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Can you prove that the Bible is wrong? I think that God created the world and the universe. Is that so wrong?

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More so, can you prove that the bible is right? No. The Case for Christ brings up many, many supporting details, but you must also look at the refuting evidence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in one passage in the bible, it is stated that the sun stopped in the sky. If the sun stopped in the sky, it means the earth stopped spinning.

"Earth is rotating at a speed of about 1100 miles per hour. If our planet suddenly stopped rotating, the atmosphere would still be in motion at that speed. The atmosphere would be moving so fast it would literally sweep the land masses clear of anything not anchored to bedrock, this would mean rocks, soil, trees, buildings, people and animals. All would be swept up into the atmosphere. "

According to another source, "the atmosphere would float away and we would cook and suffocate at the same time".

I'm still standing. I can't see any huge stones up in the sky. No trees either. No skeletons. No crispy bits floating off into space.

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You base your beliefs on nothing.

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A really bad generalization there. Who says we base our beliefs on nothing? I believe in gods, just not this One Almighty God. I have my own proof. You have yours.

Bettyboop

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I am sorry I don't know this Xia. Sounds like they could be a real entertaining person if they didn't wast my time. I am going because you people are a waste of time. Nothing more to be said. I gave two days warning. Now you may all cheer that I am gone.

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Do you guys notice how these people who know they are wrong point fingers at the people who are right, saying that we are the ones doing something, when in reality they are the hypocritcal, sanctimonious morons doing it? But you know, whatever.

I am almost sad; I thought all the homophobes knew who I was. *shakes head* Oh well. He/she/it will learn eventually.

JanosNoob

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I'm going off to college next year, and I'm graduating in the top 20 of my class, I've won multiple academic awards, been asked to go to Cambridge this summer, and other additional places.

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Do not even start with the "I am smart" line. You will get so flamed that your High School diploma will catch fire and burn down your house. Just a friendly warning for your future reference.

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You base your beliefs on nothing.

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"evolutionists" base their "beliefs" on observations and fact, not some "holy" book that was written over 2000 years ago. Why is their approach so ludicrous? Theirs is the one that makes the most sense.

flames

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However, Christianity goes beyond the Old Testament to the New Testament and the person of Jesus Christ.

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You just hit the nail on the head. See, no one really has a problem with Christianity or people believing in it. The problem is that most of these "Christians" on these boards pick and choose what they believe.

If you read the last however many pages of this thread, you will see that the only quotes the "Christians" are using to back up their homophobic claims are from the OT.

See, these "Christians" are quoting Leviticus, but they do not follow the other 600 laws in it. Not to mention that they totally disregard the new laws in the NT, such as "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." You cannot honestly say that you love your gay neighbor when you tell him that he is going to Hell for something he cannot help.

Well, I hope that makes sense to you. I think Iceland and Earthgoddess explained the whole thing better than I did. I am not expecting you to refute anything I have said, I am just trying to explain to you why we have a problem when "Christians" say that homosexuality is wrong using the idea "because the Bible says so."