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Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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I once had someone tell me, without even knowing me, that my gender-identity was a mistake, a fluke, a mere flaw of unbalanced hormones. I knew they were wrong, but how could I tell them that through my whole life of being raised female, I had felt wrong? I would like to introduce to you a different though similar story. This is the story of a young intersex man, raised female. I'm quoting an editor's summary from his biography, As Nature Made Him. I haven't read it, but I've skanned it, and I highly suggest it a book for everyone to read.

quote:
In As Nature Made Him, author John Colapinto offers a powerful true story that may shake beliefs you take for granted -- not least that doctors can be trusted to work in their patients' best interests. In lucid, impassioned prose, Colapinto, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, traces the life of David Thiessen, a boy sex-changed to female during infancy as part of a cruel experiment. In 1965, David (then named Bruce) was one of a pair of male twins. After a catastrophic circumcision accident, Bruce's penis was destroyed, while his brother Brian remained intact. Devastated, the twins' parents turned for help to Dr. John Money, a world-famous Johns Hopkins psychologist. They were searching for a solution. Instead, they found themselves pawns in a test designed to confirm Money's pet theory -- that gender is a purely social phenomenon, a matter of nurture, not nature.

Indeed, for 20 years, the doctor touted the success of the so-called "John/Joan" case. The surgically created girl, he claimed, had grown up contentedly feminine, in contrast to her rough-and-tumble brother. She fulfilled numerous stereotypes: shy, neat, and pretty, she loved babies and cooking. Most importantly, she considered herself a girl and seemed female to others. Gender, Money announced, was malleable. This finding was hugely influential, seized upon by everyone from feminist academics to pediatricians. And Money, already extremely powerful, rose to the top of his field, wielding enormous influence over surgeons and psychologists alike.

The real story did not emerge until many years later. For in fact, "Brenda" (the name the infant was given after surgery) had never felt female -- and was not perceived as a girl by others. Tormented by her peers, she was nicknamed "cavewoman" and sneered at for her mannish gait. She regularly got into brawls and was failing academically. Even the few bonds the unhappy child formed with tomboys were fragile, since she was perceived not as a tough girl but as a boy in a dress. In her teens, Brenda became suicidally depressed. She refused to go back to see Dr. Money, with whom she'd had annual visits until the age of 14. And she began to dress as a boy. Finally, her parents broke down and told her the truth. "More than anything else," David recalls of this revelation. "I was relieved. Suddenly it all made sense why I felt the way I did."

"Brenda" reverted to male. He had surgery to create a cosmetic penis and therapy to deal with his rage and depression. He changed his name to David, a reference, in part, to the biblical figure who slew a giant. Eventually, he married a loving woman with three children by other fathers. But all the while, the scientific theory supposedly based on his experience continued to guide medical protocols. Money claimed that the family had been "lost to follow-up" -- despite the fact that they never moved or changed their phone number. The case had special influence on the treatment of intersexed (that is, hermaphroditic) infants, who were increasingly "normalized" to female, despite evidence that, like Thiessen, many such children feel traumatized by the surgery and grow up to reject their gender. Finally, in 1996, biologist Milton Diamond, a longtime professional enemy of Money, tracked Thiessen down and revealed the truth to his colleagues, setting off a bomb that effectively destroyed Money's reputation.

Despite its wrenching subject matter, As Nature Made Him is an inspiring read. Colapinto has done a thorough job researching not only Thiessen's medical treatment but the social context in which it took place. And as with the best journalistic nonfiction, the author uses vivid and suspenseful storytelling to make complex ideas accessible. Colapinto builds an especially strong case against Dr. Money -- revealing horrific details about the doctor's treatment of the twins, to whom he showed pornography and even pressured to act out sexual acts, all in an attempt to "cement" their gender identities. Most of all, though, this is the story of one person: David Thiessen. With compassion and insight, Colapinto illuminates the courage of a remarkable individual who triumphed over the miserable treatment he received to become -- in the most literal sense -- a self-made man.


So tell me what you think. Is gender mutable? Or is it fixed. Does it have anything to do with your sex, or how you were raised? If you were born in the wrong body, do you think you could cope? Live as the wrong sex? In general, I just want to hear your opinions.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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It doesn't work like that. Not only do we not have the technology for transsexuals or intersex people but a surgical operation like that would not be supported by doctors or insurance. It just isn't.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of SLASHIROTH
Registered: October 22, 2007
Posts: 346
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lets see they could have just had surgery to put his daymn penis back on in the first place instead of torturing him for 20 years


"so inToxicated, so sedated"
Picture of Ikki14Reed
Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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Gender, being socially constructed, is not fixed. It changes with the times, and for those born one way, but know they are another, it can be mutable.


Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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Bump. Eek


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of Jaymeister
Registered: February 12, 2007
Posts: 66
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quote:
Originally posted by LoveTheRainbow:
I like you.


I try LMAO Big Grin


Quand il vient au mariage, je choisis le choix.
Picture of LoveTheRainbow
Registered: October 28, 2005
Posts: 5354
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I like you.


draft beer not soldiers...
Picture of Jaymeister
Registered: February 12, 2007
Posts: 66
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quote:
Originally posted by finn620:
No. I think my life is utterly without purpose, as well as everything else in the universe. At least, without a priori purpose. If I want goals and a niche in my community, I can create those.
The good thing about this (not necessarily the soul part, but what stems from the belief)is that it gives you complete and utter control over your life; no more God crutch to lean on.


Quand il vient au mariage, je choisis le choix.
Picture of finn620
Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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My pleasure.


L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
Picture of YouthVoice
Registered: January 16, 2003
Posts: 12687
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I see. Thanks for responding to my question.


"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Picture of finn620
Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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No. I think my life is utterly without purpose, as well as everything else in the universe. At least, without a priori purpose. If I want goals and a niche in my community, I can create those.


L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
Picture of YouthVoice
Registered: January 16, 2003
Posts: 12687
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quote:
But I think this goes beyond not believing in souls. I think a lot of people still think they are something more than just a blob of soma. I don't.


So, seeing as you don't believe in souls Finn. Do you think that there is a purpose to your life? I don't mean to pick on you. Just that that statement made me curious.


"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Picture of finn620
Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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I wouldn't expect anyone who spends a lot of time thinking to be able to explain this sort of thing. I shall remain forever incredulous.

Not that I don't revel in incredulity.

But I think this goes beyond not believing in souls. I think a lot of people still think they are something more than just a blob of soma. I don't.


L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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I know some transsexuals who don't believe in souls. That's not their logic. But I wouldn't know how to explain it. I don't even know how to explain mine. Smile


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of finn620
Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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I just realized at 1AM last night what my thing was.

I cannot fathom being a man stuck in a woman's body because I don't believe in souls. Therefore, I believe you simply are your body and nothing else. So, for me, this is like thinking Sally Jane really thinks she's Mary Ann the letter carrier, so she changes her name and career.

So there. That's just how my logic circuits fire.


L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
Picture of clpo13
Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6054
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quote:
If you were born in the wrong body, do you think you could cope?


I agree with finn. I can't even imagine this because every time I try, I just end up imagining myself as a woman in a woman's body. It's just not possible for me to envision a man in a woman's body because that's something completely foreign to me. I've always been happy in my body. I'm a man, clear and simple.

Of course, I also find it kind of pointless to imagine a situation like that. It's purely hypothetical and even if I could imagine it, I don't think it would help me empathize with intersex people. It would be like asking me to feel black. I just...can't.

In response to the topic as a whole, I really have no opinion on the whole gender thing. I know exactly what gender I am, so it's hard for me to empathize with other people who are confused about what gender, if any, they are.


The more you know, the less you don't know.
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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Ah, logic. Well I can't help you there, I'm afraid. You can't really employ logic when imagining that, or imagining at all, really.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of finn620
Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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quote:
Finn, that's what that book is all about. And if you can't fathom it, you must have a poor imagination. Though I find empathy too easy.


I mean I cannot fathom exactly what being "trapped" in the "wrong" body feels like thought/logic-wise.

Actually, there are a lot of things I cannot fathom without having an existential breakdown.


L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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Finn, that's what that book is all about. And if you can't fathom it, you must have a poor imagination. Frown Though I find empathy too easy.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of finn620
Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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"Born in the wrong body" makes little sense to me. Of course many of us cannot fathom being trapped in the body of a member of the opposite sex. We're used to what we have.

But as I said, it's too subjective to say anything on the subject. It would be interesting to see how much of gender identity is shaped by illogical social constraints and if gender identity would exist at all in a more sexually equal society.


L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
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