I have a little experemint for you to try...
Answer these questions:
1)(If you are a girl) would you consider yourself a feminist?
2) How would you difine feminism?
Now, ask your mom the same questions IN THAT ORDER! What did she say? If she grew up in the 60's or 70's(which is most likely true) she was probobly quick to say that she was NOT a feminist. why? Is feminism a bad thing? after she difined feminism, did she change her mind? maybee. see, feminism had a very negitive connotation in the 60's and 70's because of all the radical movements (Burning bras,anti-men stuff, etc) But now, in 2002, when women are still making 76 cents to every dollar men make, what is Feminism? is it gone? is it a good thing? what are your thoughts?
Cheers,
KC

Equality is a great thing to have, but women and men are not equal. We are not equal mentally emotionally, physically, sexually, etc. It's great to be able to not look down on each other in this world, but we won't be completely equal in this world I think. Also as girls we have to stop dumbing ourselves down in front of guys. We always see that girl that acts so stupid in front of guys so they are not threatened ny her. True feminism is being equal socially, economically, and politically right? Well we can't reach that socially. The others we can strive for, but why should that be a feminist thing? It should be a world thing where everyone wants the same thing. No one should stand back and call people names that may or may not be true. We should want to work together to achieve the same thing instead of calling someone a feminist, because it's going to hurt their feelings or make them look like a man-hating, bra-burning woman.

I have posted this elsewhere, but there are degrees to feminism. It's really just stereotyped to an extreme, just like everything else...

PS - To the original poster (though I doubt they are still around), one CAN be male AND a feminist.

I dont think that women are better than men, they are equal. The whole point of feminism is because you believe in equality. A lot of people sterotype feminists as dykes that hate men, just because you believe in equality doesnt mean that you hate men. Im a feminist and believe me they dont just sit around and bitch about equality

quote:

Originally posted by JoeyDauben:
Well the way you "feminists" go about trying to secure equal benefits/pay/opportunity for women (and men) is completely un-American.

As a private business owner, nobody should be FORCED to hire anyone they don't want to. Call that discrimination, but this country wasn't founded on State-controlled businesses.

And if a woman isn't being paid what she thinks she needs to be paid, she doesn't have to work at that particular place - capitalism is great, because you can pick and choose between a myriad of products, services or jobs.

You're all full of it if you think I'm going to, as a private business owner, pay a secretary the same amount of money for a job an electrical engineer makes.

Besides, why align yourself with the word feminist given its heavily leftist connotations?

You know, the "stereotype" of feminists is Martha Burk and that Communist NOW organization - which is pretty much a bunch of lesbos "demanding" all sorts of inclusion to things.

There are other ways to achieve equality than by doing it with the barrel of a political gun.

Despite being heavily covered with bullshit your post holds a tiny bit of sense; i agree with you in a sense that in a perfect world women wouldn't have to resort to the "politicaly gun" to get equality. But in case you haven't noticed we don't live in a perfect world. I long for the day when people, small business owners included, would gladly hire someone not based on gender but qualifications. But many people DONT do that. Women in many areas in the workforce are automatically looked down on as lesser beings and may be denied promotions based on this. If your mind doesnt work that way then kudos to you but the minds of many do.

And no one expects you to pay your secretary as much as electrical-engineer, but when you have a man and a woman holding the same position and getting substantially different salaries then there is a problem, and believe me it happens.

And lastly, I have big problems with your statement "why align yourself with the word feminist given its heavily leftist connotations?" That, I am sorry to say, is a stupid question. If you go by that, then you must ask questions like "Why call yourself Christian when it holds highly conservative connotations" or even "Why smart when it makes you sound like freaking nerd". If you truly believe in something then you ignore the stereotypes and move on with it.

Okay that was really long I know, but I had to get that all out.

I totally agree with you about abortion being a seperate issue then feminism. The definition of feminism is "1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
2. The movement organized around this belief." No where in there is abortion even mentioned. If you believe in equality, then your a feminist.

I'm a feminist in that I'm in favor of equal rights for women. I'm just really bothered by the type of women (feminazis) who claim that women are superior and deserve better treatement than men.

Abortion should be a seperate issue from feminism, too. Feminism is about women having rights equal to men. And I highly doubt that any men are seeking the right to an abortion.

Reasonable people would agree that women deserve equal pay, but they are just turned off by the feminazis which have sadly become the face of the feminist movement.

I think more women would be reticent to associating themselves with the feminist movement if it didn't tie itself to the pro-choicers so closely. It's too bad because women get paid less to do the same job and that is 100% USDA certified Horseshit. But the completely unrelated issue of abortion is to important to the people who run NOW for them to see that they don't represent most women. If they truly want a feminist revolution, drop the abortion. I would join it.

I hope so. They're name reminds me of that song by Evergreen Terrance.

Wow. Your name says quite bit. Do you plan on sticking around? You sound like a good newbie.

I get really angry when people throw around terms like "Feminazi" and call all feminists man-hating lesbians. I'm a feminist, and I certainly don't hate men, nor do I think women should be superior to men, the point is equality. Think about it this way; do you think women should have the same rights as men and get the same amount of money? If you said yes then you are a feminist. And I think guys can be feminists too, if they support equal rights for women then definitely.

quote:

Originally posted by JoeyDauben:
Well the way you "feminists" go about trying to secure equal benefits/pay/opportunity for women (and men) is completely un-American.

As a private business owner, nobody should be FORCED to hire anyone they don't want to. Call that discrimination, but this country wasn't founded on State-controlled businesses.

And if a woman isn't being paid what she thinks she needs to be paid, she doesn't have to work at that particular place - capitalism is great, because you can pick and choose between a myriad of products, services or jobs.

You're all full of it if you think I'm going to, as a private business owner, pay a secretary the same amount of money for a job an electrical engineer makes.

Besides, why align yourself with the word feminist given its heavily leftist connotations?

You know, the "stereotype" of feminists is Martha Burk and that Communist NOW organization - which is pretty much a bunch of lesbos "demanding" all sorts of inclusion to things.

There are other ways to achieve equality than by doing it with the barrel of a political gun.

What your saying is total bull!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Choral:
I agree with the glass cieling theory and that catcalls are just proof that women are still being valued far too much simply for their bodies, but as a feminist we have far bigger issues to worry about.

First, way to go newb in bringing back a good debate thread. Kudos.

quote:

What about women in other countries? America may be pretty close to equal, but what about the 10 year old girl that right now is having her clitoris removed with a dirty knife to promote fidelity? And what about the 16 year old wife to a dead man jumping into a raging inferno so as not to burden her family, or suffering the death of her firstborn for her refusal? And the woman being legally raped right now by her husband because it is her duty to provide sex, what of her?

Unfortunately, there's not enough women in politics in the US. If there were, I can almost guarantee women's rights in foreign countries would be greater.

Also, I firmly believe that while we face a national crisis (in Hurricane Katrina) and the war overseas, attention can be turned to countries that are nearer to those oppressed areas. The burden should not fall on us solely.

quote:

There is not equality in the United States. Women still get payed 76 cents to every dollar and are not allowed to hold combat positions or be drafted.

Women in the military is restricted, yes, but not without good reason. To be perfectly frank, men are more expendable, and therefore can be put in Special Ops positions where they're more likely to be captured and tortured and such. As for the draft, if it's reinstated, it will allow women to be drafted.

As for the pay gap, we've come a long way, baby. Only 24 more cents to go. But, more women sacrifice money and career for families, and that's why it's at a standstill. Personally, I'd rather take the 24 cent deficit and be able to have a flexible schedule to be with my family. But that's just me.

quote:

But I think that until our sisters across the globe can only complain that they are being oppressed the same way we are, we need to stop worrying so much about our own lacking in Women's rights and start combating theirs.

We can't stop combating ours. We need to fight both. But to do so, these women in other countries need to speak out. Silently suffering and expecting foreign help gets you nowhere. It's not impossible, it's just difficult. But nothing worth fighting for is easy.

Would I define myself as a feminist? Yes. And I'd say we sure as hell still need them.

I agree with the glass cieling theory and that catcalls are just proof that women are still being valued far too much simply for their bodies, but as a feminist we have far bigger issues to worry about.

What about women in other countries? America may be pretty close to equal, but what about the 10 year old girl that right now is having her clitoris removed with a dirty knife to promote fidelity? And what about the 16 year old wife to a dead man jumping into a raging inferno so as not to burden her family, or suffering the death of her firstborn for her refusal? And the woman being legally raped right now by her husband because it is her duty to provide sex, what of her?

Have we forgotten our sisters in third world countries? When did feminism become limited to the United States?

There is not equality in the United States. Women still get payed 76 cents to every dollar and are not allowed to hold combat positions or be drafted. But I think that until our sisters across the globe can only complain that they are being oppressed the same way we are, we need to stop worrying so much about our own lacking in Women's rights and start combating theirs.

Well the way you "feminists" go about trying to secure equal benefits/pay/opportunity for women (and men) is completely un-American.

As a private business owner, nobody should be FORCED to hire anyone they don't want to. Call that discrimination, but this country wasn't founded on State-controlled businesses.

And if a woman isn't being paid what she thinks she needs to be paid, she doesn't have to work at that particular place - capitalism is great, because you can pick and choose between a myriad of products, services or jobs.

You're all full of it if you think I'm going to, as a private business owner, pay a secretary the same amount of money for a job an electrical engineer makes.

Besides, why align yourself with the word feminist given its heavily leftist connotations?

You know, the "stereotype" of feminists is Martha Burk and that Communist NOW organization - which is pretty much a bunch of lesbos "demanding" all sorts of inclusion to things.

There are other ways to achieve equality than by doing it with the barrel of a political gun.

Whoever said it, women and men are not pretty much equal now. We get 75% of a guys paycheck (which is better then 60% but still) I'm not 3/4 a person. Also, women usually have to pay a few thousand more for a car then a man. I'm so sorry but when I have to purchase bras and pads I want my money. But we are more equal. According to my dictionary a femenist is someone who wants equal rights for men and women. But then again for rape it also says only women are raped (it's a little old). I would still consider myself one. B/c if someone says femenists are bit**Y well that would be an opinion so hmmmm..... SMILE BRIGHTLY
-Danielle

I am not a feminist, I am not anti-feminist...I believe that people should been seen as individuals. Not male or female, just human. I believe in equality...I don't think it's fair that men still make more money than women, I don't think it's right that women aren't required to sign up for selective service. There are injustices on both sides of the fence.

i am a feminist
it means equal rights for men and women

ppl have misconceptions about this. it is not a bunch of lesbians sitting on their duffs and trying to dominate men, sorry. i don't like the idea of affirmative action, but it is nessisary in some bussinesses because, dispite what some of you seem to think, women are not given equal oportuity in all feilds. even in acting the women are paid less for the same job, and thats a fact. i wish ppl would just give everyone the same oportunity but not go out of their way to make sure they have equal numbers... some jobs are simply better suited for men, navy seals are mostly men, women are allowed to be seals but less women are fitted for the intense training. women often make better doctors/ nurses/ surgeons because of maternal instincts to care and they are used to dealing with blood. not to say men cant be doctors, my doctor, dentist, dentist assistant, orthadontist, crown-maker dude are all male and good at what they do. damn GOOD!

1)(If you are a girl) would you consider yourself a feminist? I'm not a girl, but i would consider myself to be a feminist because i think men and women should be equal in all ways.

2) How would you difine feminism? I would define feminism as a rejection of old stereotypes about women, and quest for equality

im proud to say i am a feminist. say what you will about women being lazy... i am not. i work hard in school and i volunteer more than a lot of people i know. i dont have a job because people will not hire a 14 year old girl. at least not where i live. is it really that wrong to have strong feelings about your gender? men have dominated the world all throughout history. if we didnt have feminists... women would not be able to vote or drive. Men can work hard and earn a higher position much easier then a woman, as well as a bigger and heftier paycheck. Equal rights still do not exist after all these years. Shouldn't we get past this, "One is superior' bull and settle on housework not just being women's work. i think we should.