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Now if the owner of a private company (you know, a company owned by a private business owner and not the government) pays $22/hour for a guy typing at a desk all day, while paying a woman $14/hour for the same thing, then well, that's between you and the boss.

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Why should it be between the woman and the boss?? The boss would always win and the woman would always be oppressed. There would never be equalization and we'd be stuck in the 1950s for the rest of our lives.

There was a statistic in my Gov. class that showed that men still get paid more than women doing the some profession. Assuming that both a man and a woman had the same profession and carried out their tasks equally, shouldn't they get paid the same? I think they should.

"Our little boys and girls are being taught that women should make themselves more sexually accesible, and vulnerable(through the most subtle ways)."

Yeah, so where are the parents who are supposed to instill morals and values in their children and keep them from walking out the front door in skimpy outfits?

Sex appeal is glorified by the media and television and music videos.

Well the media also happens to be a HUGE pro-feminist lobby; how ironic.

The National Organization for Women (NOW) had a beef with the Augusta golf course in Georgia - it's a private, all-male club.

Well, pretty soon after this liberal feminist organization started its rants, the arch-liberal New York Times got in on it, and a HUGE debate erupted in the national media - all because some feminist wench wanted a private club to admit women.

If that's feminism ...the forcing of feminist views and doctrine upon American people and/or private property in the name of "equality", then it's nothing I'll support.

If you want to lobby a corporate boss in getting equal pay for women because men doing the same thing get more money, then that's different.

The feminists just want everyone to bend over and forcefully accept some of their radical views.

Songbird, this response is aimed toward you specifically:

"I think girls should be drafted too. I mean, if we want all the good stuff of being equal, we have to do the bad stuff too. I think that girls should be allowed to do all that they are qualified to do - I mean in the armed forces or whatever - and there shouln't be a limit on what they can do."

Women are allowed in the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines and are allowed to shoot a gun and are allowed to fly fighter planes and fight on the front lines of war. So...???

About the draft thing...you and every other girl out there should be thankful for not having to FORCEFULLY register; the draft is the most horrible, anti-individual measure the U.S. government imposes on us (guys). Who'd want to be TOLD that you MUST go off and fight in a war (assuming the U.S. had another draft)? Maybe you should talk to some Vietnam vets who were 17, 18-years-old when they were TOLD to go off and fight.

That's not equality, Songbird - that is 100 percent coercion.



"I didn't realize that there was so much employment problems. thats really sad."

This is the feminists' strongest argument; does it ever cross your mind, or any other self-labeled "feminists" mind that maybe men get paid more because of the work they do?

So when construction workers are outside building, fixing, mixing and sweating in 100-degree Texas heat while making $22/hour, the broads sitting at a desk, inside a cubicle typing on a computer should get paid the same?

You're full of s h i t if you think that's acceptable.

Now if the owner of a private company (you know, a company owned by a private business owner and not the government) pays $22/hour for a guy typing at a desk all day, while paying a woman $14/hour for the same thing, then well, that's between you and the boss.

Feminists want to get the government to make a law about that kinda thing; feminism, in those views, mirrors that of the Affirmative Action supporters and the gay rights supporters.

It's "discrimination" that as a private business owner, I opt to hire a male instead of a woman who is six months pregnant.

HOW IS THAT DISCRIMINATION?



"And you know the clothes thing? ...but I think that us girls should be able to wear whatever the heck we want to wear man."

Who's stopping you from wearing what you want to wear? Besides your parents of course...??? And maybe a school dress code...?

"...its like the guys have an excuse for drooling all over Christina or whatever - *they're made that way*. Oh, suuuuure. Like they're aren't some girls like that?"

What exactly is your point here? Christina is majorly hot - so what's your point?

"Why can't us girls just wear what we WANT TO WEAR and the stupid guys can stop FRICKIN STARING AND WHISTLING AT ME!"

Ever consider not wearing certain things so that maybe the guys WOULDN'T whistle and stare at you?

Personally, whistling is for fourth and fifth-graders, but if you're a hottie, what's your problem?

If this is feminism, then God help us all.

I have always considered myself a feminist simply because I believe that women are still not considered men's equals. As long as we aren't treated equally, there will be a need for some sort of movement (feminism) to show the world that both genders are equal. There have always been negative views of feminists, and there always will be. It's easy for people to stereotype feminists, when truthfully most people don't know that much about feminism. People judge feminists as man-hating women, but I very seriously doubt that the people saying that have read much feminist literature. Also, one has to realize that all of the people calling themselves feminists have different views of feminism. Some are more radical in their views, while some are content to try to make society change through niceness. Some think that strong women don't need men, while some don't focus on men at all. Feminists are basically a very diverse group of people who may share completely different viewpoints but are united in the idea that both genders deserve equal treatment. My mother considers herself a feminist, and she also did so during the 70s. All of this brings me to my final point: this world needs women who will speak out about problems that most people would otherwise choose to ignore. In some countries it is legal to rape women, female genital mutilation is legal (and widely practiced in some areas). There are still places where women can't vote, hold certain jobs, or even leave their homes unescorted. Some countries allow men to throw acid into the faces of women. We still have this much to change. Feminism exists to promote the equality of women everywhere, and it still has much to accomplish.

I'm a girl. I'm on a coed rugby team. I'm in cadets. Three of my female cousins have signed up for the army. I can bench press 200 kg and I'm not on any steroids. I have been to many protests and have interviewed many girls and women who have joined football and rugby teams with boys and men. Oh, and by the way, It is a proven fact that women have more indurance and lower body strenght than a man of the same weight.

I'm a feminist, and proud of it.

Feminism is the radical belife that women are ppl.

There's nothing wrong with being a feminist but it is hard to be one when ur in 8th grade. the teasing is painful. All the guy's who say things like "get back in the kitchen!" It's hard.

hey people, FEMINIST IN DA HOUSE! Ok, sorry, just had to do that. personally, I don't think there should be a draft. haha. But if there was...no wait, i don't think there should be one. But, seeing as it might happen, I think girls should be drafted too. I mean, if we want all the good stuff of being equal, we have to do the bad stuff too. I think that girls should be allowed to do all that they are qualified to do - I mean in the armed forces or whatever - and there shouln't be a limit on what they can do.

I am more concerned with the culture problems - I mean, its only girls that can really get date-raped, we're the only ones that can get pregnant, whatever. Guys have it so easy and they refuse to understand taht we have it harder and we have to put up with them too. I mean...*grr* I dunno. I didn't realize that there was so much employment problems. thats really sad.

About my mom? Well I dunno. Well, actually, I know all too well. my mom thinks she can't change anything and guys are just gonna be jerks and women will always have to put up with their crap forever. See, I don't think that. And you know the clothes thing? like the entertainment industry images of women? You probably don''t understand what the heck I'm talking about (I'm really tired believe me) but I think that us girls should be able to wear whatever the heck we want to wear man. I mean jeez. its like the guys have an excuse for drooling all over Christina or whatever - *they're made that way*. Oh, suuuuure. Like they're aren't some girls like that? but guys just get an excuse to act like disgusting perverts and stare at girls boobs or butt or whatever, and that is just stupid. There is no excuse. Why can't us girls just wear what we WANT TO WEAR and the stupid guys can stop FRICKIN STARING AND WHISTLING AT ME!*rowr* goodnight all,

Lynne

Men would understand the need for femnism if they could see how it feels to be a women and constantly see your peers being sexually objectified. That is the most appalling part of our society. Our little boys and girls are being taught that women should make themselves more sexually accesible, and vulnerable(through the most subtle ways). If women began judging men by the size of their ******es, men would be singing a different story.

I think you just haven't met the right feminists (or didn't know about their political views when you did). Most feminists don't believe they're better than men.

I've heard that reading **** is a good introduction to the feminist movement, although I haven't read it myself. I also suggest The Feminine Mystique, and A Doll's House.


Love, Jenny

P.S. **** is supposed to be "C U N T". Oh yeah, and listen to Ani Difranco (sp?)

i have nothing against women by any means, my mother is one. But i have a big problem with feminists, they are basically nazis, they think they are better than males and blah dee blah dee blah. So i think femnazis need to took a look at the world around them. we live in a world of prejudice, and yelling about your rights is just gonna make people hate you more, so shut up

In reply to fluffy1
Being a "lady" does not require that one remains home and takes care of the children. I admire your aspirations of being a lady, but this does not require that you stay home cook, clean, and be "Suzie Homemaker".
Being a "lady" is how you conduct yourself and how you act. A businesswoman may also be a lady, she treats others with respect but does not neglect to act out in her own defense (politely).
In the "old days" men did "walk on the outside of the sidewalks" and ect. because they were "gentlemen" treating "ladies" with respect. This respect can still happen to day, and does not require that the "gentleman" think any less of his "lady" friend.
The point still stands however "women" and "men" are equal. Women deserve to have the same rights as men. We deserve equal pay for equal work, equal chances to get well paying jobs, and share equally in the running of a household and the care of children. Americans should want to create gender equality, as well as racial equality, to fullfill our American ideal that "all men are created equal."

NO WOMAN SHOULD HAVE TO STAY IN THE KITCHEN AND COOK.I THINK WEMEN SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME AS MEN, AS A MATTER OF FACT SOME WEMEN HAVE MORE POWER THAN MEN, BECAUSE THE MEN WHERE I COME FROM ARE LACKING THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES AND BECAUSE OF THAT REASON WEMEN CAN'T LIVE THAT LEAVE IT TO BEAVER SCENE.

What is a lady? Anyone can b a girl, anyone can b a feminist, but what does it take to b a lady? I do not believe that feminism truly apprieciates "ladys". I am homeschooled. My mother gave up her career to teach me. To b a mother. She made a sacrifice...my mother is a lady. My mother believes that woman r equal to men, but different. If u read about the "old days" that feminist talk about, when men were so unjust to woman, u would find some other things there. Did u know that gentlemen were supposed to walk on the outside edge whenever escorting a lady? Do u know y? To protect them. Not all men did, however. Not all men r gentlemen. But does that mean that all women should cease to b ladys? I aspire to b a lady. Is motherhood such a unworthy job that we must search 4 one elsewere? And as 4 men treating girls differently because they r girls, I know that I have only been treated with respect 4 it. And I am glad that I am a girl, and I hope one day to b worthy of the respect that comes with being a lady. I only despair of what feminism has made it to b.

in my opinion, feminism is being proud of being a woman, and striving for equal rights. Yeah, I'm a feminist. My half sister is as well. My mother... she's borderline. She wants to be, but she's afraid to.
Some people say that a few women are shaming past feminists, because they're stay at home moms. But that's not true. They didn't fight so we all would be out in the business world. They fought so we could have the choice.
I don't understand why boys still parade around like they're better than girls. They're not; were're different. So what, you can lift more weight than I can. Could you give birth to a child? Thought so. Not better, just different.
Well, peace out,
andreia

then they are really femminists, I dont knwo if they have a name but they have probably just been hurt a lot. and I know many males htat wouldnt sign up for hte draft if they didnt have to and many women that go into the army. War and ifghting should be an issue outside sex because it has to do with more than jsut sex. I am against the draft for every person so it has nothing to do with me being a woman.

I really think that most guys have respect for women, and don't consider themselves above. I am a girl, but i give guys more credit than that. Yes, unfortunatly there are a few that make those snyde remarks every-now-and-then....but I think for the most part men as a whole don't have that men-are-better point of view. At least that is how it is where I live.

I for one, am a pseudo-feminist. I believe in equal rights yes, but would I burn my bra, no. I just believe that girls have just as much right as guys to make something of themselves. Long gone are the days where a woman's workplace was her kitchen. For goodness sake, I can barely cook! To quote my fave movie-Strike-"No more little white gloves!" Though tackified by the Spice Girls, girl power definitely sin't over.

I consider myself a feminist in the fact that i don't conform to lady like composure. I do what i feel is right, not to what society says is right or wrong for a girl to do. My favorite quote is by rebecca west. it goes something like, "I am not quite sure what feminism is. I only know that i am considered a feminist when i express sentiments that differienate me from a doormat." Which is true. In my school, we had a lot of problems with this. I was in my law class and this guy told me to shut up. I asked him why i should shut up he said because "girls don't say nothing right." I can't believe he said that right in front of his girlfriend. She just looked at me, like i was the brunt of a secret joke or something.
Sometimes i see girls smothered in relationships. I see girls laying down thier own beliefs just to know the player or the drug dealer. I see guys smack thier girlfriends on the butt. I've seen girls basically become slaves to the society around them. It is so sickening. When i don't want a guy to tell his friends that we made out, is that wrong? Should i feel suppressed because i wanted it just as bad? The double standard gets in the way....and there are differences between females and males. That is why we have cross dressers and the like.
basically, i believe that when females stand up for themselves, they are breaking down years of abuse that was laid upon females years before.

(and you know they're great cuz they're from bumper stickers...)

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." (This is not meant to sound man-hating, so don't take it that way.)


Love, Jenny