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God is there for those who seek him. People who hear the word have no excuses when they stand before God. People who do no seek the truth have no excuses either

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Then why is it that the more I look for truth the farther I get from God?

That song...it really speaks to me, as it should to a lot of people. When I was a Christian, I always hated the fact that the church was so self-involved and often hypocritical. I understand what you're saying about the wife and her husband and the church and god, but I see a problem with it. The wife knew that what she did was wrong and did it anyway. What about people who honestly believe that their religion is right? They're not deliberately slapping God in the face.

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It just seems so unreasonable that one decision determines where you spend eternity...especially for those who were raised from birth to believe in a certain religion like Judaism or Hinduism or whatever, who have it so deeply ingrained in them that any other religion seems ludicrous. God forgives all our mistakes and sins if we believe in Him, but if we make a mistake in the one decision that seems to me the hardest, we go to hell. It's difficult to swallow, you know?

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Ezekiel 16 is one of the longest prophecies in the Bible.

Basically what is happening is God talks about his people in the sense of a baby girl no one wanted and was left for dead.
God comes by and saves her. He then later is punishing her tell her about how he busts his hump all day to care for her, takes her back talk and her disrespectfulness. He showers her with gifts and protects her from danger but nothing was ever good enough, she continued to behave the way she does.

She gives away her gifts that were meant for her, she tears her beautiful clothes made for her. She claims to her lovers to have never known God, or that he was no one important. She defiles her body and acts like a prostitute.

God then talks about her as if a wife, and calls her behavior "Adulterous". The God works for her all day to please her, but she only works to please other men.

God then tell how it hurt him more to have to punish her, but promises her, he will always love her and never forget that. He declares he will keep all the promises he made her.


We [Christians] are the body of Christ. It is our job to teach, and help. God tells us his arms are always open, but he will only reach so far, you have to reach out too. I believe it is us [Christians] who are to blame for the lost salvation of so many.


If We are the Body
Casting Crowns

It's crowded in worship today
As she slips in trying to fade into the faces
The girls teasing laughter is carrying farther than they know
Farther than they know

But if we are the body
Why aren't His arms reaching?
Why aren't His hands healing?
Why aren't His words teaching?
And if we are the body
Why aren't His feet going?
Why is His love not showing them there is a way?
There is a way

A traveler is far away from home
He sheds his coat and quietly sinks into the back row
The weight of their judgmental glances
Tells him that his chances are better out on the road

But if we are the body
Why aren't His arms reaching?
Why aren't His hands healing?
Why aren't His words teaching?
And if we are the body
Why aren't His feet going?
Why is His love not showing them there is a way?
There is a way

Jesus paid much too high a price
For us to pick and choose who should come
And we are the body of Christ

But if we are the body
Why aren't His arms reaching?
Why aren't His hands healing?
Why aren't His words teaching?
And if we are the body
Why aren't His feet going?
Why is His love not showing them there is a way?
There is a way

Jesus is the way


That song says allot I think.


1 mistake sends you to hell.
Well that 1 mistake is rejecting the truth of Gods sacrifice. Much like He talks about how his Wife Gives away his gifts to her, and pretends to not know him, and ignore him when she whores herself out in front of him.

God is there for those who seek him. People who hear the word have no excuses when they stand before God. People who do no seek the truth have no excuses either.

But I feel the weight of guilt should be on the shoulder of us [Christians] who are the ones who walk the way we do.

It just seems so unreasonable that one decision determines where you spend eternity...especially for those who were raised from birth to believe in a certain religion like Judaism or Hinduism or whatever, who have it so deeply ingrained in them that any other religion seems ludicrous. God forgives all our mistakes and sins if we believe in Him, but if we make a mistake in the one decision that seems to me the hardest, we go to hell. It's difficult to swallow, you know?

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Hell was always one of the hardest things for me to accept about Christianity...

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Same for me.

Allot of people would like to tell me [or themselves] its what they [the hell goers] deserve.

Something you have to remember, is that all sin is provoking to God. A slap in his face.

Kind of like being in a abusive relationship. God loves us more then anything, and has done everything he could to show that. Yet we still spit in his eyes. Though we get angry when he does something back.

Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

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I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people,
Who walk in ways not good,
Pursuing their own imaginations-
A people who continually provoke me to my face,
Offering sacrifices in the gardens and burning incense on alters of brick;
Who sit among the graves and spend there nights keeping secret vigil;
Who eat the flesh of pigs and whose pots hold broth of unclean meat;
Who say, ‘Keep away; do not come near me, for I am too sacred for you!’
Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day.

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Isaiah 65:2-5


Depth of mercy, can there be
Mercy still reserved for me,
Can my God, your wrath forbear,
Me, the chief of sinners, spare

I have long withstood your grace,
King, provoked you to your face,
Would not harken to your calls,
Grieved you by a thousand falls,

Depth of mercy, vast and free,
So much deeper than the sea,
God of love, you heard my cry,
Now into your open arms I fly


I wonder if that was written about me.

Hell was always one of the hardest things for me to accept about Christianity...

I'm going to have to have a chat with my aunt; she used to be a Christian (professed, anyway) and now she's a Satanist. I'm sure she'd have some interesting perspectives...

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I, as well, have not done much research on the various conceptions of hell, but there seem to be more theories than you would think...

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It is one of the more depressing subjects.

I, as well, have not done much research on the various conceptions of hell, but there seem to be more theories than you would think...

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I was referring to people who have never heard, and also to the speculations that perhaps the modern idea of a Christian hell isn't what the Bible meant at all

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I've heard that prehaps the "lake-o-fire" hell is only ment for those who are purely evil, I.E. people who murder for pleasure. And that what we [Christians] would consider hell is infact just being left on earth, and not going to either heaven or hell.

This is interesting to me, however I think personally [althought I havn't done much study on it, I am mainly focusing on the teachings of Jesus at the moment] that for God, you are either for him, or against him.

Joey:

I wasn't referring to gray areas such as good people who don't believe in Christ. I was referring to people who have never heard, and also to the speculations that perhaps the modern idea of a Christian hell isn't what the Bible meant at all. Love, Jen.

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So, despite the fact that Christian philosophers and theologians have debated this point for years using the very Bible that you speak of, you think that you somehow have a no-questions-asked, no-room-for-gray absolutely correct answer to it?

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I do not believe everything is Abosultly right or wrong.

There is room for discernment.

Joey here is a good look in the mirror for you:
Landover Baptist

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and i'm going to hell b/c im Jewish, even though i've never done anything that bad, while Christians can murder people but still be forgiven and get into heavan, right?

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If he is a Christian he wouldn't be murdering people.

And yes, if you do not know Jesus, you will be judged according to what you've done, and if you have sinned even once then you can not get into the kingdom of heaven.

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It's witchcraft. It's pagan. It's demonic. It's Satanic. It's derived from occult practices.

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shut the f*ck up, you have no idea what you're talking about.

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I personally will not celebrate these holidays again

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which other holidays? christmas? thats based on yule, remember.

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Just that myself personally will not associate with anything demonic.

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demonic? the cornicopia came from a pagan fertility goddess, just to name one.

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If you want to cast spells, conjure up nature spirits, go right ahead.

But, don't expect me to sanction or support it.

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you're reffering to paganism, and thats fine. just recognise it as another religion. its not demonic, just as buddism isnt demonic, so like i said, shut up.

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The roots of these holidays are EVIL. They're from DARKNESS.

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have you totally ignored me [like usual] when i said that christianity has pagan influences too?

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but you know what, she believed in what the Pope did, that all gods are the same.

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all gods are the same, geez.

USA Patriot act: Intrusion of privacy and records of every citizen, blatant disregard for existing laws.

Halloween: Candy!

Moron.

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So, despite the fact that Christian philosophers and theologians have debated this point for years using the very Bible that you speak of, you think that you somehow have a no-questions-asked, no-room-for-gray absolutely correct answer to it?

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Is that not what I have been proclaiming on these boards for well over a year now? Come on, pay attention.

What gray area do you need or are looking for? Mother Theresa did really good work, but you know what, she believed in what the Pope did, that all gods are the same.

Guess where her soul is now?

I can only go by what I have been led to read, and have been taught. There is no gray matter in terms of eternity.

You're either separated from God, or you're with him.

Cut and dry, yes, but it's true.

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You people keep thinking Jesus only preached about love, when in fact he spoke of exposing the works of darkness and evil.

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and you know! cause you were there! and you know everything and so you must be right! right?
oh, and i'm going to hell b/c im Jewish, even though i've never done anything that bad, while Christians can murder people but still be forgiven and get into heavan, right?

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And if you die, not having taken Jesus as your personal savior, you will fry in hell. That is what the Bible says. That is what I have been taught.

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So, despite the fact that Christian philosophers and theologians have debated this point for years using the very Bible that you speak of, you think that you somehow have a no-questions-asked, no-room-for-gray absolutely correct answer to it?

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Its just a freakin holiday to have fun. If you aren't "celebrating" it then you aren't doing anything against your religion. Just let the little kids have fun.

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Yeah, this sounds exactly like the supporters of the USA PATRIOT ACT.

Suure, if you're not doing anything illegal, what do you have to hide? If you don't support anti-terror laws, you must be with the terrorists.

Same thing, just a reversed subject. Good thing I'm not so gullible so as to follow this line of what you call reasoning.


Listen, if you want to get candy and dress up in costumes, do it. But I personally would not - or try not to - give the devil any more attention than he already has.

I used to be the same way; used to think my grandma was completely nuts for going after this kinda stuff, not celebrating that stuff. I now know why it's so important not to. It's not Godly. It's not of God. It's not Christ-like.

You people keep thinking Jesus only preached about love, when in fact he spoke of exposing the works of darkness and evil.

The roots of these holidays are EVIL. They're from DARKNESS.

Boo hoo hoo, let the kids have fun, it's just a holiday. Oooh, it's only candy and costumes, let them have their fun.

It's witchcraft. It's pagan. It's demonic. It's Satanic. It's derived from occult practices.

You can go ahead and let your kids have fun all you want, but I personally will not celebrate these holidays again. I don't even put up Christmas lights anymore. If that's too extreme, then you should just deal with it.

But people are taking this topic and stretching it all over the place. I quoted an article that I thought brought up some very good and valid historical references. Not one time did I say people shouldn't have a right to do these things.

Just that myself personally will not associate with anything demonic.

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Anything that is contradictory to the Word of God is pagan, demonic, a tool of the devil, and not of God.

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So, a religion like say, Buddhism would be pagan, demonic, and satanic to you?

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Let me quote that again: "Anything that is contradictory to the Word of God is pagan, demonic, a tool of the devil, and not of God."

With me?

I don't care about the rituals the Catholics implemented (prayer to saints, Virgin Mary, etc.) via the paganistic practices of the Roman Empire, just don't call - or expect me to - celebrate those holidays and traditions that those derive from.

Korith put it not-so-offensively, but he's right. You're either a Christian, or you're not.

And if you die, not having taken Jesus as your personal savior, you will fry in hell. That is what the Bible says. That is what I have been taught.

If you want to cast spells, conjure up nature spirits, go right ahead.

But, don't expect me to sanction or support it.

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Satanic-Pagan, same freakin' thing in my Book.

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What kind of book have you been reading? I'm sure it's as informative as something by Dr. Suess.

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Anything that is contradictory to the Word of God is pagan, demonic, a tool of the devil, and not of God.

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No; anything that is not Christian is non-Christian. Pagan, Satanic, Atheistic, Jewish, etc. all mean different things. Your lack of knowledge discredits you from any feasible conclusion that you're obviously trying hard to make.

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That's just how Christians - true Christians - believe, sorry to burst your bubbles.

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No. That's just how Daubens - Joey Daubens -believe. But it's not your fault; I believe those drugs and church have taken a toll on you.

Gah, I can't believe how ignorant this generation has gotten.