alright...sorry if i came off like i was being prejudice against your religions

i was just really annoyed when i heard that people were practicing wiccan and i know someone who does and i know she also only does it because she wants to be different so i guess i jumped to conclusions

and since i took so long to type this cause i had to do some other stuff inbetween i foget what i was gonna say

oh yeah but i remember this:

whoever said that wiccans worship the same god as christains is wrong because witchcraft is agaisnt christain beliefs

im sorry if i insulted anyone, but that was not my intention at all.

well, i don't think he really come in insulting anyone, but he just doesn't understand...don't get too angry. it really doesn't help. i'm not judging you on this, but a lot of wiccans and wiccans these days are really self-righteous when it comes to christianity and think that we are better than them because we are more tolarant...it's kind of a bunch a bs how a lot of us act like we know everything and jump down their throughts when they try to put labels on us...i mean they do really believe that we are going to hell and it is not out of spite that they come in here and say things like this...and i think that it is wrong to put labels on ALL christians and say that they are all judgmental and intolarant...some of them are, but i have a best friend who is christian and my family is christian and the loved me and knew me before i ever chose my religion, so they know not to judge...i apologize to breexox and and the other guy who came in here and if anything i said made it look like i don't like christians, because i personally wish that christians and pagans could understand each other and get to know each other before making judgements....so i guess i just wanted to tell you (babbyangel) that maybe we should try to explain things about our religion instead getting all puffed up and stubborn about it, and to the others, maybe i should have worded things differently, but i felt personally insulted (though, i HOPE that wasn't your intentions)... i don't know...i just want us all to reach understanding before jumping to conclusions...
kisses and blesses,
e.k.

Yes God is real, no s%$t. we also believe in God, so what are you trying 2 say there? and y is magic crap? just because u dont believe in what wiccans believe in it dosent mean u have 2 call what they believ in crap.
we dont go around saying your religion is cr@p or anyones, then again maybe some of us just are more respectful. ok so u dont agree with the believes wiccans have, but that is all u need 2 say. you dont have 2 insult what they believe in.

quote:

---

your "magick" is a sin.

---

you sound so sure, but why not give some eveidence to prove it.

quote:

---

god is real.

---

of course god i real, no one ever said that god wasn't real. wiccans and witches worship god too, we just see it different and pray and worship in a different way.

quote:

---

god is real...
love is real...
but your "magick" is crap

---

if you knew anything about us before you opened your mouth, you would know this:
god and love ARE our "magick"...magic is the spirit and energy of the divine inside of us and it helps us live our lives. we are happy with the way we live and it works for us.
.

quote:

---

i pray that you will open your eyes...

---

as for me, i don't chose your religion, not because i am blinded, but because i lived in a christian house and family and i have tried it and i have never felt for "your god" the way i feel about "mine". christianity doesn't work for me and i don't believe in the things it teaches. so i decided to stop trying to live by it and it's imposssible standards that it teaches because i realized that i DONT HAVE TO, and i don't have to do anything just because someone tells me i'm going to hell. i'm not going to hell, because i know it's not there...i respect your beliefs, but i've heard it and seen it all before and these beliefs do nothing for me.
kisses and blesses,
e.k.

quote:

---

you're so called "magick" is a SIN

---

Your misspellings are a sin to me. It's "your." I condemn you to spend eternity in eternal damnation for this grammatical imposition!

quote:

---

how could you even believe in that stuff anyways?

---

Uh.. maybe because that's their religion.

quote:

---

i mean...God is real

---

That's what -you- believe. I'm not a Wiccan, but I don't believe in your Christian god. I could blatantly tell you to remove your head from the gutter and try to live in the real world, but that would be childish and disrespectful. But I -do- respect your beliefs. Try doing the same.

quote:

---

and i hope you all open you're eyes one day

---

When were my eyes closed? Try opening your ears.

quote:

---

not to sound like a preacher or anything

---

Thus being one of the reasons I am Atheists, pft.

you're so called "magick" is a SIN

how could you even believe in that stuff anyways???

i mean...God is real

Love is real

but magick

is crap

and i hope you all open you're eyes one day

not to sound like a preacher or anything

bushsupporter- of course you miught come in here and see how the people respond and think that it's all a great big lie and conspiracy against the "truth", but as for me, even if there is a hell( which i don't belive there is because i belive in reincarnation, but let's just say, for argument's sake i am wrong) i would be completely confident that i would not go there. so i don't know, it's great to have strong beliefs, but you have to understand that a lot of people of different religions, including me, have beliefs that are just as strong and deserve respect...i know you didn't come in here disrespecting, but you did come in here judging and according to your bible who but god has the right to judge? so let's get on to something more positive here...i'd just like to ask any wiccans or witches right now some questions...do you ever deal with intolerance about being a wiccan or a witch (pagan, etc.)? do you know how to deal with people that tell you to convert lest god send you to hell for eternity? i know this is a hot topic with a lot of wiccans and witches today, but i would like to add, just like we don't like people judging us, we shouldn't really jump to conclusions about all christians and the like. not all of them hate us, so give me your opinion. do you think the two can get along? do you think that we will always be misunderstood? is anyone here doing something to help the situation of misunderstanding?
kisses and blessings,
e.k.

Thank you swirlinglilies! and as for bushsupporter dont be so quick to judge a religion you hardly even know about. what you have heard others say dosent count. as for God saying that its a sin, thats just a load of cr@p! wiccan is a gr8 religion which dosent try to control the way you should see things like many of other religions. wiccan is a gr8 religion which is no sin in any way. if the world where to end tomorrow i doubt that wiccans would burn in the eternal fire. dont be so quick 2 judge a religion you dont even know about, i think that it is probbably more of a sin for you to say that wiccans will burn in the eternal fire, and to judge wiccans so quickly, than what we believe in and practice. the religion of wiccan harms no one, and dosent sacriffice anything like many of other religions. so why is wiccan a sin? i pray that you could c more about our religion, and not so narrowed minded

i thought this place was to end the "isms" (including the judgments of other peoples religions)...that's great for you bushsupporter, you can pray and pray and pray, but i'm praying too that people like you will open their eyes and stop being blinded by narrow minded persepectives. maybe you should learn more before you judge, because, not to diss or anything, you probably don't even know what "magick" is. you do magick too by praying to make things happen. that's almost exactly how our magic works. we pray in a different way by using candles and objects to direct concentration. there is nothing bad about it. it isn't the use of "supernatural" powers, but of the natural power of the divine (which, yes, also includes your vision of god)and the personal power within ourselves. i would appreciate it if you post in here again to at least give some evidence to make your point, cause i didn't really get it...where exactly in the bible does it say that "magick" is wrong? have you actually read that verse or are just pretty sure it's in there? maybe you could ask questions and learn a little for yourself, because i don't think you are looking at the big picture. kisses and blesses, e.k.

I pray for you all everyday to open your eyes and see the true grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Learn about him and he will fill you with a thirst quenchable only by the word of God.


"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

God says magick is a sin. It was a sin when Pharohs preists did it and a sin when it was done by the Nicolites. I suppose we'll see how unsinful it is when Christ comes to rapture his church and you all stay behind. And when you die and are judged wiccans and others who deny the messiah will be cast into the eternal fire of hell. I bet there are a lot of regrets down there.


"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

babbyangel- been officially practicing for about two years...studying like crazy and learning more and more everyday...it's been great for me, but first advice is to make sure that it is what you really want before you start practicing. a lot of people say to study for a year and a day before official initiation, but there are a lot of different ways to go about it. if you have questions ask away! there are no stupid questions! also look for books in the library or at a bookstore like barnes and nobles (which has a great alternative sprituality section) and find some sites on the net (though beware, on the internet you will run into a lot of inexperienced people claiming they know everything and a lot of misinformation. your best bet is to do a lot of research for yourself instead of relying on personal webpages) anyways anyone who wants to e-mail me for questions or anything or anyonw who is looking for wiccan or witch friends, feel free to write toripeswirlinglily@aol.com
kisses and blesses. -e.k.

thanks you SwirlingRipeLilies, how long have you been a wiccan? i have practiced it a little, but not much and i want 2 learn more about it. i guess i pretty much just know the basics but i want to know more about it.

babbyangel-that was an excellent point you made, but i would like to add- to most witches and wiccans the creator IS the creation and the creation IS the creator, going with the main belief that all things are interconnected. -e.k.

hey, my name is erin too! but, anyway...:::ahem::: okay. i am a wiccan and a witch. i thought i would like to post in here and introduce another topic about wicca that hasn't been discussed at all by most wiccans and witches. before wiccans/witches start trying to fix "bad christians" and the like, we need to look at ourselves and each other. there is still discrimination between wiccans/witches even though most of us claim to be the most open-minded people of any religion. my experience with a lot of different wiccans and wiccans and other pagans or "neopagans" has not been a very pleasant one. now i don't expect peaches and cream from the world especially in a place like today's america, but, come on, aren't we preaching understanding and tolerance of all religions? well, then why can't we even respect and tolerate each other? wiccans today have been divided into very strict labels. there are the "fluff wiccans" who believe in light and bunnies and love and peace and throw flowers wherever they go, there are the "REAL wiccans and witches" who SUPPOSEDLY have been taught by an ancient generation of witches and think that they are the only true witches out there (by the way, these "real" witches tear "fluffy wiccans" to shreds whenever they can relentlessly) and there are "professionals" ya know, the kind that KNOW EVERYTHING and think that all others are idiots and aren't doing anything right...there are so many ways that wiccans and witches are seperating from each other when all they preach is togetherness.... i'm not bashing wiccans or witches because i am one, i am just trying to prove a point to all the other wiccans and witches out there, that you are being just as hypocritical as the stereotypical organized religions that we can't stand (yah it's funny how we can discriminate amongst ourselves and still have time to discriminate everybody else)...so what if some witches look at the darker side of things...isn't it all about balance anyways??? come ON!!! and is it so wrong to be optimistic and believe that the world CAN be made up of bunnies and sunshine??? don't we need MORE of that in todays society? and so what if some one is less experienced than you. we all started somewhere! and if you won't help teach us the way, then how are we to keep away from all those "mistakes" you think we're making? it's all so stupid and hilariously ironic, but at the same time sad, because what we should be doing is learning from each other. we won't always agree...some of us will NEVER agree, but how can we establish wicca and witchcraft as a respectable religion in the eyes of others without respecting each other and coming together. hopefully my experiences with other wiccans and witches will start to change and people will become more understanding, but for now, i hope that all the wiccans and witches in here can understand the point i am trying to make and well, it would be nice if you even GOT what i am talking about here. well, hope to get more replies in here on this topic and see what everyone else thinks about this. -e.k.

wonderousbob, wiccans do not just worship the creation, the also worship the creator. but they dont typically call their creator God, they call they're creator Spirit, because they believe that Spirit is neither female nor male.
and how would you know what, or who they worship 2? have you ever tried to become a wiccan? have u ever studied it or read about it? by the sounds of it you would be able 2 answer no to all of these quetions.

I'm studying Wicca.
It sound pretty interesting ............. and I do not see where it say they wordship dark magic like everyone else seem to say they do. Matter of fact, I don't see anything wrong with it.
They are more in touch with nature and their spirital side and there's nothing wrong with that.
I haven't looked up everything about Wicca so I won't be going around here saying all these things about it(Because that's kind of an insult to Wiccans) but just to let you know, I been looking and "I" see NOTHING WRONG.
Also, I'm NOT the one to judge.............or point the finger at anyone.
Bye N have a nice day

the big problem with things like wicca is you worship the creation intead of the creator.

Why do you have to label it and package it up and put a name on it. It's earth, it's nature. Anything more than seeing that in a scientific way enters into teh spiritual or religious realm. It adds premises that are not necessary for the conclusion, unnecessarily complicating the understanding or explination.
Making wicca less and less of a religion doens't make it more endearing and provides much less of a reason to believe in or practice it.
Furthermore, what you express is very much not the standard form of wicca, and a more ecumenical answer might be less evasive. The answer you provide disregards talk of magiks and spirits both of which are large components of most wiccan ceremonies and beliefs.
In fact, the pop culture idea of a "teen witch", which technically erroneous and incorect, is the main drawing point for converts, especially among disaffected 'goth' girls. Not including these aspects of the belief mean part of the question is still not answered.
The answer seems disconnected from the celtic roots of paganism and if all you really believe in is that there is nature, it's good, and it has a certain jenez se qua (or however it's spelled) or aura about it that is special, that makes it so open and unrestricted as to technically be anything to anyone, essentially a non-religion.
The goal is not to win converts, but the answer provided certainly isn't encouraging the average person to learn anything more.