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my mom works in a hospital in the ER and she had this kid come in and he had lesbian moms and becuase he had no father he didnt know how to pee standing up....

That was the third worst lie I've heard today.

my mom works in a hospital in the ER and she had this kid come in and he had lesbian moms and becuase he had no father he didnt know how to pee standing up....thats why gay marriage shouldnt be allowed and why they shouldnt be able to adopt kids...the kids become messed up and confused and then you've got the people who are intolerant (which by the way isnt me) and so they make fun of those kids...i personally dont want my brothers growing up and thinking its ok to hit on another guy!!! if they choose to when they become older and can understand what they are doing then more power to them

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who you are is God's gift to you but who you become is your gift to God

People are afraid of change.

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I think we should elect a homosexual president. That would solve the problem once and for all.

WHAT??? WHERE DID THAT COME FROM??? And how would that solve the probelm? I mean, come on, sure, that would mean our society is all right with it, which means it probably would have been accepted in the political system by that time anyways. Hello? Oh, I am so tired...

I think we should elect a homosexual president. That would solve the problem once and for all.

Society is afraid of individuality. The government wins elections by using things like this. If they let samesex marriages happen then they would lose their positions in office. They think they can get all the votes of religous people by keeping things this way. But, just look at what their doing to our schools. They don't want us to discuss God in school, but they use god as a tool in their stupid elections. Personally i think we would be better off going back to the old days when we didn't have a president and a Congess. I think we should decide ourselves what should be done in the country instead of leaving the decision up to people who don't actually believe the things they tell us.

On a side note, despite the violation of the historical documents of our country, how is not giving equal rights justified? In other words, do you have any arguments that are not religious-based? Can you provide a valid point about why this country should not recognize marriage of two same-sex partners?

Well, hopefully I'll get an answer, because I have never gotten one to this point: What about the benefits? And, you obviously think that you are better than homosexuals...

Marriage Benefits
Lovely Government Site

Hey, sorry, i've been busy with school and band and everything else under the sun, so i haven't gotten to reply until just now, so this goes all the way back 3 pages, so sorry if some of the stuff has been repeated, just skip over it if you don't like it... btw the bible that i am using is one that i was given at I.T.E.C. (Interdenominational Teens Encounter Christ), it is the Zondervan New International Version. Enjoy this post...

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If you think the Bible's not against homosexuality, you need to read Romans 1:27

well, hub, the bible also contradicts itself, so why should i go by what a book says?

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Not everything. And that's a weak argument. Who cares the number of the things God has told us. He still told us.

Well, it's actually not a weak argument, because most of the 'laws' we break everyday. For example: Lev. 19: 19 "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." Lev. 19:27 "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." Lev. 19:28 "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord."

And, the christian/old testament version of God(TM) as you take him as isn't as great as you make it out to be. Lev. 21:18 "No man who has any defect may come near; no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; (19)no man with a crippled foot or hand, (20)or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. (21)No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the Lord by fire. He has a defect ; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. (22)He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; (23)yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary, I am the Lord, who makes them holy." Hmm... sounds very excepting to me...

Also, on slavery: Lev. 25: 44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves." & 46 (same chapter) "You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life."

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To say that Leviticus is rubbish because there are lots of instructions in it, is stupid.

Well, according to the above, we must all be stupid; or just horrible sinners for all of the atrocious instructions that we have been breaking...

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And the thing about socks, finn, that's part of the Mosaic law, made void by Christ's sacrifice.

Could you please quote a bible verse, because here we can only accept God(TM)'s word.. which you believe is the bible...

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ROMANS however.

What about Romans? The bible isn't as accurate as you may think... Just because the bible (or Romans) says something doesn't mean it's true or doesn't contradict itself. The bible contradicts itself many times... one example is Ephesians 2:8,9 & James 2:24... anywho...

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I just find it rather peculiar that we can declare the parts of the "word of God" that we desire obsolete at our own will.

So true...

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They aren't born homosexual. They chose to be so.

Yes, I would also care for some proof.

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it does degrade the word.

Well, you degrade christianity. if gays marrying degrades the word marriage, well that's just a sacrifice our society is just going to have to take...

I think Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau (or Canada) said it best: ""The state has no place in the nation's bedrooms." - Dec. 22, 1967.

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You know what? Even if they were born as such, which I don't agree with, so are schizophrenics. Let's let the schizos marry their "voices"

wtf? you've just stopped making sense...

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I was saying, we don't support mental disabilities, so why should we support this one?

You are just kinda digging yourself into a hole...

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But you're encouraging their mental disability

hub, you really need to stop this comparison. First off, people get the idea that you are comparing homosexuality to a mental disease and thus equating it, and 2nd you are coming off as saying that people with mental disabilities should not have rights... what kind of nazi are you?

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some people are homosexuals, but I'm not going to be

how much do you wanna bet that your children are, just because you have the mindset... they might also be druggies too... a lot of times that happens, and parents always deny...

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"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

hmm... because that makes a boat-load of sense...

I guess I'll just post this again....

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What Causes a Person To Have a Particular Sexual Orientation?

There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people.

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed

Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation?

No. Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable.

However, not all gay, lesbian, and bisexual people who seek assistance from a mental health professional want to change their sexual orientation. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people may seek psychological help with the coming out process or for strategies to deal with prejudice, but most go into therapy for the same reasons and life issues that bring straight people to mental health professionals.

APA

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Originally posted by hubbabaloo:
Oh yeah? Try re-reading Romans 1.

"Oh yeah?" Yeah. I'm not repeating what I already have in the other two threads.

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I recognize this, however, I cannot accept their marriage with a clear conscience, and what they want is for me to accept their marriage, and they cannot force me to do so.
FOR GOODNESS SAKES! Even before this big huge argument started they were getting married. The Unitarians and the Liberal Reform Jews have already been marrying them for quite some time.

Why not? Marriage is about love and commitment to another person. Why do you care so much if those two people just happen to be of the same gender?

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You know what? Even if they were born as such, which I don't agree with, so are schizophrenics. Let's let the schizos marry their "voices"

My discussion about whether or not it is a choice doesn't really have to do with the actual marriage debate. People choose to get tattoos and yet they are still allowed to get married. I'm just trying to find a logical reason for why you would think they choose to be homosexual.

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I do find it degrading to marriage. I wish we would get rid of them, I've tried to make some voice with that, but it's somewhat hard when you live in Seattle.

Okay, so you find the Vegas weddings to be degrading to marriage...So a homosexual couple have a nice church ceremony surrounded by friends and family where they have a traditional wedding ceremony. Their relationship is about love and commitment just like any other marriage.

How can you possibly find that as degrading as having Elvis pronounce you husband and wife?

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Originally posted by hubbabaloo:
They are getting married. I'm just saying that they aren't REALLY married. Even though I can't stop them going and claiming to get married, I don't have to recognize their marriage, and that's what I'm against. Everything was *****-dory before they came wanting everybody to recognize and accept their marriage. I always thought that homosexuality was perverted, however, I just dismissed by saying WFYB, and thinking, that's their problem. Some people have pre-marital sex, but I'm not going to, and some people are homosexuals, but I'm not going to be, so whateva. But I've heard enough about them wanting me to accept their marriage. No way.

The thing is, they aren't asking you to accept their marriage. They're asking the government--that big institution with many functions, one of which is to ensure people's protection from other people's prejudices. If you are personally opposed to gay marriage, so be it. I do hope that someday you will, so to speak, "see the light", but that's your business.

I'm sure plenty of people in the U.S. don't recognize interracial marriages, and in their eyes, a black person and a white person cannot be REALLY married. They're entitled to their prejudices. So you see, the WFYB mentality really isn't being threatened here.

You'd also do well to remember that a lot of people don't give a tin sh*t in a rainstorm what Romans says, and they have every right not to. Even if this country falls into what you view as "corruption", and gay marriages become commonplace, why should that affect you? You'll still know in your heart that you're doing the right thing. Why should anyone else's personal life matter?

Before you jump down my throat with something about trying to save this precious country from itself, consider this: you said in some thread (perhaps this one) that you oppose masturbation on moral grounds. That's all fine and good. But do you support making masturbation illegal? I should hope not. If you do, you're a fascist, plain and simple.

People have very different opinions of what the word "degrade" means in the context of marriages. I personally think marriage is degraded by spousal abuse and unnecessary divorce (usually caused by people rushing into marriage). Yet, in the areas that have allowed gay marriage, spousal abuse and divorce have not shot through the roof. The Bible Belt is still merrily leading the nation in the divorce. Of course, by your definition of "degrade", marriages might already be degraded beyond redemption from the time two men say "I do."

Also, I'd like you to really ask yourself how you'd feel if society wouldn't let you fulfill one of your life goals because of something written down in a book you'd never believed in.

Notice how she completely ignores me.

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Because marriage is a sacred bond

Marriage hasn't been sacred since Las Vegas was founded.

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as opposed to homosexuals, who are not.

When will you learn? We require proof, not mere statements.

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"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Okay, so we've established that whoever wrote the Bible didn't like the Romans and their Platonic love. Now, how exactly does this apply to the rest of the world? As far as I can tell, the Bible is just saying that a bunch of homosexual Romans were allegedly punished for being "unnatural". No proof that it actually happened. And it most definitely doesn't apply to non-Christians.

Read the whole chapter (I know you have, just saying). And even if it points toward "homosexuality" or whatever the heck you want to call it, other conclusions can be drawn. And the age old argument, can we trust a 2000 (approximatly) year old book? Times change, people change, society change. This is the here and now. We don't live half-way across the world and we don't live way back when. This is America, where we should (keyword) be able to excercise the rights we deserve. Heck, even other countries are letting homosexuals marry!

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Originally posted by yogore:
The bible was translated so many times. The original word was not synonomous with homosexuality.

The word homosexuality isn't there. Let me post it exactly,

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

The bible was translated so many times. The original word was not synonomous with homosexuality.

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Originally posted by Jenos:
I am still slightly confused, what do you mean by encouraging their (our) mental disability?

And what did you say that was censored?

honkee, but spelt differently. I didn't know that was a censored word. GRACIOUS! What's wrong with that word? EDIT: I looked it up, and goodness. I'm caucasion okay. I'd never heard that word used derrogatorily. Saying something is honkee-dory is an age old saying. Goodness. What's happening to earth.

It's sort of complicated, I'm trying to find how to say it.

Good Lord, hubbabaloo. People can't help it if they have mental disabilities. And what do you mean "encouraging their diabilities."

Homosexuals were born that way. Why don't you ask a homosexual friend sometime. Most homosexuals have been attracted to the opposite sex since they were able to label their feelings.

And which is more important, being nice to people and serving God, or listening to a book and "serving" God?

I am still slightly confused, what do you mean by encouraging their (our) mental disability?

And what did you say that was censored?