Originally posted by hubbabaloo: Not everything. And that's a weak argument. Who cares the number of the things God has told us. He still told us.
*Sigh* Time to break out some Leviticus quotes...
Leviticus 1:5-9 -- He shall kill the bull before Yahweh. Aaron's sons, the priests, shall present the blood and sprinkle the blood around on the altar that is at the door of the Tent of Meeting. He shall flay the burnt offering, and cut it into pieces. The sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire on the altar, and lay wood in order on the fire; and Aaron's sons, the priests, shall lay the pieces, the head, and the fat in order on the wood that is on the fire which is on the altar; but its innards and its legs he shall wash with water. The priest shall burn the whole on the altar, for a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, of a pleasant aroma to Yahweh.
Leviticus 11:10-11 -- And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination.
Leviticus 15:19-20 -- If a woman has a discharge, and her discharge in her flesh is blood, she shall be in her impurity seven days: and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening. Everything that she lies on in her impurity shall be unclean. Everything also that she sits on shall be unclean.
Leviticus 19:27 -- You shall not cut the hair on the sides of your heads, neither shall you clip off the edge of your beard.
Leviticus 19:20 -- If a man lies carnally with a woman who is a slave girl, pledged to be married to another man, and not ransomed, or given her freedom; they shall be punished. They shall not be put to death, because she was not free.
If you really believe this is the word of God, are you making an effort not to come in physcial contact with men while mentruating? Abstaining from eating shrimp? Killing bulls?
I'm not saying the ridiculous instructions in Leviticus are proof that there's no God, I'm just saying they were clearly written to reflect the arcane beliefs of the time, and therefore can't be used as a reasonable modern argument against homosexuality.
And then, as the books were told, Fina replied: "A can of worms, my dear friend? What has this to do with reason?"
Originally posted by GQTM: I'm sorry to interrupt this wonderful conversation but I must interject. Saying that just because we don't believe in him doesn't mean he's imaginary sets a standard in your logic and then you turn right back around and break it. Just because you believe in him doesn't mean he does exist. Think about it man.
True. But it goes both ways. And you can't convince me that he's imaginary. Same way I can't convince you he's real.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
I'm sorry to interrupt this wonderful conversation but I must interject. Saying that just because we don't believe in him doesn't mean he's imaginary sets a standard in your logic and then you turn right back around and break it. Just because you believe in him doesn't mean he does exist. Think about it man.
Not everything. And that's a weak argument. Who cares the number of the things God has told us. He still told us.
Who's giving weak arguments? You can't even back up your opinion without turning to an imaginary being who gives you moronic laws about what kind of fabric to wear.
Actually, David and Solomon were told off for their concubines. So were a lot of others, that aren't coming to mind. God was never fine with concubines.
And you are wrong. Sodom and Gomorah are both famous for sexual sin in general, and are used metaphorically throughout the Bible as such. Sodom is particularly famous for incest, thus Sodomization.
However, in Romans, Paul certainly gives them a tongue-lashing about their bisexuality. And in Leviticus, there's commandments against it.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
Originally posted by agape4u: If we look at the track record of cities in the Bible where there was widespread homosexuality those cities were all destroyed.
Are you referring to Sodom and Gomorah? If so, it seems rather clear that Sodom and Gomorah were punished for their xenophobia.
As for homosexuality being a perversion of God's plan, well, it seems like God's plan included concubines when the culture already had them, and stopped including them in cultures without concubines. How convenient.
Yeah, that makes sense to me, clpo, but the counter-argument is that homosexuality has some sort of strong, sinful pull, and that resisting homosexuality is possible, just difficult, like resisting Satan.
Bleh. All of this reminds me why I try to stay out of these debates.
And then, as the books were told, Fina replied: "A can of worms, my dear friend? What has this to do with reason?"
All right, I'll try to use logic to prove something that I think may be important.
If you assume, like agape does, that homosexuality is a sin, then you must assume that homosexuality is a choice. Let's start with that. Homosexuality is a choice.
Now, we look at homosexuals and see how much they are ridiculed for their "perversion". They are harassed, they are beat up, they are even killed, simply because they don't fit the social norm.
So I ask you, why would anyone--masochists aside--choose a life of homosexuality if it will only bring them pain, both mental and physical? Contrary to popular belief, people do have common sense, and common sense dictates that you DO NOT do something that will harm you in any way.
However, reality shows that homosexuality can't be a choice. There are many, many homosexuals all doing homosexual things, getting harassed, but still being homosexual. Now, it can't be possible that all these people lack common sense. It must be that they can't choose to be what they are. For most everyone, you're either straight, or you're not.
So, if homosexuality is not a choice, it can't be a sin. Assuming that God creates everything, he must have also created homosexuals. And why would God create someone inherently sinful with no possible chance of redemption?
That was simply my two cents. You can take it or leave it.
I think I'll leave it, but thanks for posting!
"I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure." -Clarence Darrow
Originally posted by agape4u: If we look at the track record of cities in the Bible where there was widespread homosexuality those cities were all destroyed. (As were those that killed children.)fOR ANYONE WHO has studied the Bible.
And to think, I wasted all my time studying history books...
And well put, Azelma. Post more.
And then, as the books were told, Fina replied: "A can of worms, my dear friend? What has this to do with reason?"
Although the Bible doesn't directly say it is wrong, I personally believe that God designed marriage between a man and a woman because it is the best way for marriage to take place. Homosexual marriage is a perversion of God's plan which I believe then makes it a sin. If we look at the track record of cities in the Bible where there was widespread homosexuality those cities were all destroyed. (As were those that killed children.)fOR ANYONE WHO has studied the Bible. I have heard it argued whether or not homosexuals can be Christians. I believe they can. But God through the Holy Spirit will reveal their sin and open their eyes to it. Then the ball is in their court with what they will do repent or continue to live in that sin. Those who are truely sincere with their faith they can seek help (if that doesn't sound to judgmental, that is not the way it was meant.) And with the help and support of fellow believers can leave that way of life. Very of -ten Christians will put homosexuality above other sins when God sees all sin the same. Not one is worse than the other. I personally know believers who were able to leave the life of homosexuality. That was simply my two cents. You can take it or leave it.
"For I know the plans I have for you , declares the Lord, Plans to prosper and not to harm you , to give you a hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
Topics 
That was simply my two cents. You can take it or leave it.
