Nay, I'm against the death penalty because, I know this has been stated before but, your letting them off easy. I say lock 'em up for life, but not in some fancy jail where they get great food, a college education, televisions, etc. No, give them bread, water, and a lot of hard work. Save the sympathy for the victims and their families. And how about giving those free educations to those who cant afford it? If they're going to spend the rest of their life in jail I don't think they need a college education.

which is what it's for murder, rape, and so forth

I only agree with the death penalty in order to justify the utility of the punishment (and possible deterrence) of the most obscene and haneous crimes.

Here is a study that shows the death penalty rates of states with capital punishment v those without capital punishment.

Here is a report by an expert a Columbia Law school who discredits death penalty studies that relate deterrence and death penalty.

and a whole lot of other nice things if they behave well

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And free healthcare does?

You're forgetting that they also receive education (up to the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree!), TVs, a gym, etcetera...

They are not human when they do what they do Brehon, they are monsters and a threat others, as the old saying goes any one who's been put to death for murder hasn't commited another one. To take the life of another is an act so disgusting that it requires the removal of part of your humanity this goes for soldiers as well as murderers and though soldiers are tempered because they kill in the defense of others we still see them cracking up because of what they've done.

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similer to killing rabid dogs. You do not put a rabid dog in to a kennel and leave it there for life, it's dangeorus so you either shoot the poor thing or you have it taken away by animal control who will quietly put it to sleep.

Ah, indeed, just what seperates us from the animals. Erm, what? Do we want to put human life on the same level as an animal which according to some branches of Christianity doesn't have a soul? Amp?

Yes but you explanied it much more eloquently than I did.

In the end I see the death penalty as similer to killing rabid dogs. You do not put a rabid dog in to a kennel and leave it there for life, it's dangeorus so you either shoot the poor thing or you have it taken away by animal control who will quietly put it to sleep.

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The truth is, the death penalty does not deter criminals from committing crimes.

And free healthcare does?

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In fact, the required appeals that come with sentencing someone to death cost MUCH more than the cost of keeping someone alive.

But once they're dead, the appeals stop. If they don't die, the cost of keeping the Human Rights Commission from jumping on your back for violation of human rights continues.

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Also, the idea that we should kill people because they commit horrible, horrible atrocities is mislead.

How so? I think taking up valuable space with unsightly prisons is a bit of a silly idea. If you kill the criminals, they don't take up space...above ground, at least.

And Brehon, I think we can agree that by committing grievous crimes, one gives up those rights that you mentioned. It's a well-known fact that many civil rights are already taken away from criminals. The death penalty simply shows that other, more fundamental rights are removed as well, which is as it should be. There is no better form of deterrence than the knowledge that your right to life may be revoked.

Besides, murder violates those rights as well. If everyone has the right to "life...and security of person," it's obviously not right for someone to come along and violate those with a 9mm. Throwing that person in prison for life isn't a punishment. They get free food, shelter, and often medical care in prison. For someone living out on the streets and forced to steal and kill to survive, that sounds like a pretty good deal. As I said, not punishment enough.

So essentially what amp said. I missed his post and pretty much paraphrased what he'd written.

*cough cough* Yay!

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Also, the idea that we should kill people because they commit horrible, horrible atrocities is mislead. We cannot let the victim decide the punishment for a crime, because emotions and irrationality tend to take hold. Some people would call for heads to roll for the simplest of crimes.

which is why we have the justice system

and Brehon the counter to that is that when someone violates the rights of another (say the right to life by killing someone) they give up their own rights and lower themselves to the level of a animals, dangerous to be sure but not human

I feel it's time to return to this thread. Nay.

I have in front of me 'the common standard of achievement for all people and all nations', the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I find it a rather useful, and indeed moral and ethical document. And I think the death penalty violoates a few of the more moral articles.

Article One All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

[B]Article Three [B] Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

[B]Article 28, paragraph 3 [B] These rights and freedoms may in no case, be exercised contrary to the purpose and principles of the United Nations.

Just a few, I can't be bothered to trall through it.

I think a lot more crimes should be dealt with using capital punishment, or at least corporal punishment.

I say nay. On some basic level it seems wrong that the government punishes people for killing...by killing. Not a very good example from a social standpoint.

[/QUOTE]

What if God told you to jump of a cliff?[/QUOTE]

Actually i would, because He would have to have a reason for it, but Drstrangelove is right, this is off topic.

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Originally posted by LoveTheRainbow:
Well God doesn't exist so you don't have to worry about that.

I always like to point out that's just as ignorant as saying "Jesus is the divine seed of God". You've got no ground to stand on.

In any case, if the Almighty creator of the Universe told me to leap off a bridge, I'd probably do it. God knows what would happen otherwise. Pun intended.

But we're getting off topic.

Well God doesn't exist so you don't have to worry about that.

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Originally posted by katalinacmnacha89:
The truth is, the death penalty does not deter criminals from committing crimes. I challenge someone to find an official study that says it does.

Wham, Bam, Thank-You-Ma'am!

To be honest I haven't read it thoroughly as I'm not really a sociologist/econmist, but it was published in a peer-reviewed journal.

EDIT: Oh and to LoveTheRainbow, if God told me to jump off a cliff I'd probably do it, because, you know, IT'S FUCKING GOD!

The Death Penalty is one of the great hypocrisy of humanity.

This is one of the reasons I have decided that i hate humanity. This and there is people out there who think like this:

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well i am for the death penalty but only because i am a christian and God says it is what we should do. I did a report on it at school and my research showed that it was impossible to say if it was truly effective or not.

What if God told you to jump of a cliff?