you're right in one way... but terribly wrong in another. god did know us before we were born. jesus even said that the very hairs on our head are numbered. abortion is murder, but i believe that it is murder in every situation or circumstance. even if that means the mother is at risk. you sound like a reasonable person, knowing that god knew us even before we were born and all, so here's a line for you. there is no compromise in the kingdom of heaven. god does not make rules with exceptions. he doesn't say, "thou shalt not commit adultery unless..." or "the only way to the father is through the son except this other way..." you see, there are no compromises or exceptions. it's his way or no way.
the thing you're terribly wrong about is your commenting on human vegetables. let's take a second look at it.
quote: Have you ever seen a vegetable?
quote: There are people who do not live...they merely exist. Their brain works only enough to allow them to breath. They do not have emotions. No happiness, nothing. The simply exist.
quote: It is a living hell for those people.
ok, ok... soo... they live, but just merely exist, and they have no emotion... but life is a living hell for them? wait... i thought that have no happiness or sadness... i must have mistaken your contradictory bluntness to mean something else.
quote: And you say that EVERYONE should be forced to have a child...even if the child will be severly retarded, mentally unstable, deformed...
that's not at all what i'm saying. i'm just saying that if a person is going to get pregnant, under any circumstance, they should be fully prepared for the child to have a deformity or a disease or mental/physical handicaps. they should not be allowed to abort the child because it isn't going to have the same capabilities as a "normal" child. if a parent is willing to abort a child (and i don't care what their excuse may be) that just proves that they don't love their child. to me, it's murder and that is simply not an act of love. forgive me for being so blunt, but that's the truth behind abortion. god bless, snoop
"I am totally against abortion unless the mother is at risk. I don't understand how people can think that a fetus is not a child. Do you not know that before you were concieved God new what color your hair would be and if you were going to be a boy or girl. I am just outraged that some teens just go out get drunk and have sex. Then they don't face the consequenses and they just destroy a life. To me it is murder and you should fry in hell. "
Thats nice. Now, what say do YOU have in this matter? Your beliefs are strictly based on a religious standpoint. You may feel that they are murdering a few cells...err...an unborn child, but it is not your decision to make.
Have you ever seen a vegetable? I'm not talking about one you may find in a store...I'm talking about a human vegetable. There are people who do not live...they merely exist. Their brain works only enough to allow them to breath. They do not have emotions. No happiness, nothing. The simply exist. And you say that EVERYONE should be forced to have a child...even if the child will be severly retarded, mentally unstable, deformed...or even a vegetable. It is a living hell for those people. And you, ma'am, are fighting for thier ensured suffering. Just because your religion tells you it is bad. Sheep.
Pro Choice: it is possible to dislike abortion but still be pro choice.
ok, fetch... i can see what you mean by your example, but i still think that adoption would be the better way. i mean, first off, if the woman doesn't want a child, she ought not to be having sex in the fist place, but i won't get into that on this forum. second, if she doesn't want the innocent life to be around, that still does not even come close to justification of murdering it.
you said that the cost and patience required to care for a child with mental and/or physical disabilities is enormous and can be quite a heavy burden to bear, but hear this: when two parents have sex with the intention of having a child, that child should not IN ANY CASE be loved any less because of what it looks like, or acts like, or whether or not it has some sort of handicap. the thought that a parent is "not up to it" as you put it, is just a shame. that just proves that they expect their child to come out with ten fingers, ten toes, and perfect little bodies. well, i'm telling you that not everyone is born perfect and you know what? that doesn't matter. we all still have the right to live our lives to the fullest. it's in the constitution. we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. if a parent has a child that's mentally retarted and they can't accept the fact that they're child is just not like all the other children, and that causes them to love the child less or not at all, they shouldn't be allowed to have kids. or at the very least they should put it up for adoption.
i know this is most likely going to come as an extreme insult to you, but i really don't mean it to be so please forgive me if it does, but here it is: the idea that a person with mental/physical handicaps should be aborted if a parent does not wish to "deal with the child" is disgusting. right now in history, we're studying the rise and fall of the nazi party and hitler. hitler expected all of his soldiers and followers to be of pure race. that is sick if you ask me. almost ironic that he wanted men of blonde hair and blue eyes even though he himself had neither. ever think about that? just because someone doesn't have the qualities that are desirable to the parent does not justify that child's demise. that idea is no different, in my opinion, than hitler's theory of racial purity. again, forgive me for insulting you if i did, but that's how i see the situation.
i hope that the things i've said on this site, the statistics, the analogies, the examples i've given, all of it. i hope that it has affected someone and made them realize that abortion is a terrible, evil thing, and it needs to be stopped. abortion of a child in the womb is no different than a frustrated parent slaughtering their little child because it won't listen or isn't being the desirable child they'd always hoped and dreamed for. remember what i said about the nazi party and racial purity. there is no such thing as racial, ethnical, or national superiority or inferiority. in that same sense, there is no such thing as inferiority or superiority among individuals; young, old; short, tall; new born, unborn. we're all human, and we all deserve to be treated as humans with the opportunity to live our lives regardless of what disability or disorder we possess. that's it right there in black and white. i can't say it any clearer than that. god bless, snoopy
I hate to say this but your right about what you said. I know for a fact your right because I see it sometimes in my mother. She talks about how hard this is, having a child with an illness and it makes me feel terrible inside, like I shouldn't have been born, like she should have had an abortion. I think my mom and dad divorce because of me and my problems. I give my mother almost heart attacks whenever the doctors says that I'm really sick or whenever I go to have an operations or whenever I say something hurt and they need to check it out, see if everything is working ok. I hate being called retarded or mentally ill or headicapped. I hate having to feel pain that not everyone will ever feel in their whole life, I'm jealous of those people. I hate being called Lucky. I hate that I cause my mother to have fear and sadness in her heart. In other words, "Your right" Bye N Have a nice day
You make a good point Fetch, but there is a better alterntive than abortion, putting the baby up for adoption. Yes, they will still know they that they aren't wanted, but a least then they have the chance to live. A misserable childhood does not determine that the person will be misserable for his or her whole life. If a person is given the chance to live, he or she has the opportunity of finding happiness. However, it really doesn't matter whether or not the person will be happy, it's not our place to decide that. Ending the life of another human being, no matter how small, is wrong no matter what the motive behind it is.
quote:are retarded people any less human because of their disorder? and when she found out that she was a child who was thought to have had disorders before she was born and people wanted to abort her, she was most likely saying that it is also not the greatest feeling to find out that you might not have been born because someone made a wrong judgement and suggested that you be murdered in the womb. it's the same principle as a parent telling their child that they wish the child was never born. doesn't that hurt your feelings?
I don't think someone with any sort of medical or mental retardation is less of a human being. But it takes a lot of money, time and patience to take care of a child with something like that, and not every parent is up to it. And it hurts more to be born and raised in a crappy household. Because if a parent doesn't really want the child, and realizes how hard it is to take care of one- especaily one with learning disorders, retardation, sickness and so on- it very fusterating, and the parents might yell, hit or even abandon their children, which hurts more, because youy're aware of it. Plus expenses for specail schools or medical costs. Her parents did want her, I imagine. That's why they had her even though they were advised to have an abortion. And that's why she grew up to have a reasonably good life, I imagine.
How about this case- heard it awhile ago. A prostitute had a baby in the bathroom of her house. She wasn't even aware she was pregnant, she claims. She probably used drugs/smoked/drank while pregnant. Should she take care of a baby, just because she's too lazy to have an abortion or whatever? In cases like this, abortion is a better option. A baby born into that life can only suffer.
quote: That's not the issue. I won't go to anyone who's pregnant and can have a baby and tell her to have an abortion, just like I won't force anyone who doesn't want a baby to have one. Your mother wanted you, and she had you.If she would have aborted you, you wouldn't have known, just like I wouldn't have known if my mother aborted me.
that's not the issue either. the issue isn't whether or not the baby realizes that they're suddenly coming to the end of their physical life. it's about the fact that they ARE coming to the end of their physical life. i realize that puppy said it hurt because people suggested that people abort her, but from what i gathered, she meant that it's not the greatest feeling in the world when you find out that people have that little sympathy for a life that they would destroy it because of mental complications. are retarded people any less human because of their disorder? and when she found out that she was a child who was thought to have had disorders before she was born and people wanted to abort her, she was most likely saying that it is also not the greatest feeling to find out that you might not have been born because someone made a wrong judgement and suggested that you be murdered in the womb. it's the same principle as a parent telling their child that they wish the child was never born. doesn't that hurt your feelings? well... it might not, but we both know that some people would be upset by that comment, right? god bless, snoop
quote:I just wanted to say that because it really hurts that some of you would have killed me and others just like me.
That's not the issue. I won't go to anyone who's pregnant and can have a baby and tell her to have an abortion, just like I won't force anyone who doesn't want a baby to have one. Your mother wanted you, and she had you.If she would have aborted you, you wouldn't have known, just like I wouldn't have known if my mother aborted me.
funny thing is, the abortion industry is not driven by "womens rights" but instead soley by profit. In an Interview Carol Everett- who owned and operated several Dallas area abortion centers in the late 70's and early 80's- said " I was getting a commission of 25$ for every abortion I 'sold' In 1983, the year I got out [of the abortion industry], I would have pocketed aproximately $250,000." Projections for the next year suggested that she would net $1 million.
Um.......I respect everyone's reasons for thinking abortion is right or for thinking it's wrong. But there's one thing that's begging me just a bit, I'm sorry but I have to say this because some people with their posts and all are making me feel bad . I don't like that most of the post I read said that if the baby is going to have mentally or physical condition that the mother should have an abortion
This is my reasons why: 1) I really do believe that kids with mental condition, do somehow, someway understand what is going on in the world and with them. It's just no one has really proved that, yet but that doesn't mean it can never happen. That kid who is going to be killed could be the person who proves it. 2) No one really is 100% sure that the baby will be mentally ill, the doctors just guess that from the picture they already see so the soon to be mother could be killing a perfectly fine baby without knowing it. 3) My mom's doctors said that I was going to be mentally ill because I was going to be born with a rare disease that would cause the child to be brain dead . They said that I could have a physical condition on top of the disease and on top of the mentally ill part. They said to get an abortion. Well, my mom and dad said "no" as you can see and now here I am. I have the rare disease + another illness, but I'm glad to say, I'm not mentally ill and I wasn't born deformed. Do you get what I'm saying here? I know you do.
I just wanted to say that because it really hurts that some of you would have killed me and others just like me. It hurts a lot and I want everyone to see that and know where I'm coming from, please Well Thanks for reading Bye N Have a nice day Everyone
i apologize for the spelling errors and i forgot to add in a word or two... i meant to say, "in any given day there were more abortions than lives lost in the september 11th....."
on september 11, 2001, two planes struck the twin world trade center. over three thousand people lost their lives in this tragic affair. the country was shook and terrified by the event. the number of lives lost was an attrocious. by no means am i showing a lack of compassion for that event or the lives lost in the tragedy... i lost friends and family in it as well. what i AM trying to show you is that since abortion was legalized in 1973, i believe it was, 42 million babies have been aborted! do you know how many that is?!?!?! can you even comprehend it?! that's 3 babies a minute! in any given day between then and now, there have been more abortions than in the september 11th terrorist attacks. i'm sorry, but that's insane. tell me that abortions are just and fair. i don't care what the circumstance is, whether the woman having the abortion is 30 years old and married, or a 12 year old that has been raped (and i know that is a very tragic and sickening event as well), there is no excuse for an abortion. an abortion is a shameless execution of life, and what's worse, a child, an infant. i don't care if you're coming from a religious background or not, this is truly the most disturbing issue i can think of. three babies a minute!!! please don't tell me that this has not shocked you. at three weeks, the brainwaves are detectable. a couple weeks later, the heart beat can be heard with a stethescope. fingers and toes are perfectly formed after two and half months... these children develop so quickly and there's an obvious sign of life after only a few weeks. the termination of a life is inexcuseable... why is taking away the life of a child in the whom any different than taking away the life of a child just born. or what about partial birth abortions... don't tell me you think that is ok as well. the baby is fully developed! it is midbirth!... i cannot even believe such a concept is perceiveable. it makes me sick to think that people can actually have the right to kill another human being legally. you just think about those statistics i gave you tonite. if that doesn't upset you, i don't know what will. god bless, ~snoopyD~
quote: You'll get a lot more done to stop abortions by volunteering at the Planned Parenthood than by picketing in front of it.
I have never seen it put so well before. Abortion is not something that is done 'for the hell of it' or as a form of birth control. (shudder) Leave the choice up to the woman who ultimately has to deal with putting her body through it.
abortion is murder nomatter how you look at it. livin4christ is right when he/she said that god knew us before we were even conceived. our very hairs are numbered. we should not ever abort a child. i don't care whether it was conceived during marriage, or at a party, or if raped. nomatter what, that child is still a human being and a child of god. how can somebody destroy a life and say it isn't murder. i also agree with candybuster for saying that killing the fetus or the sperm is killing have the baby so it should be just as wrong as abortion. premarrital sex is outlawed by god and if we didn't have sex before marriage, we wouldn't have to worry about this topic at all. i hope you can see, if you don't already, that god is not a happy god when we murder, which is what abortion is... murder. god bless, ~snoopyD~
Saying that abortion is wrong is like saying condoms and other forms of birth control are also wrong. Spermicides and stuff like that kill sperm, which is half a fetus, and birth control pills prevent an egg from being released, so there's the other half. Would you outlaw condoms as well as abortion? It seems like morally it's the same thing.
And also, young single girls with babies are frowned upon by society, aren't they? So why is it wrong to have a child but also to end the pregnancy before it's even born?
Personally, I would want to have a choice, and it's every woman's right to choose. Don't take it away. If men had to go through childbirth, many opinions would probably be different than they are now.
If you have anything to talk about with me, please feel free to send me NOISEmail.
