There are passages in the Bible that refer to the fact that homosexuals should be put to death. And some Christians try to use that to their advantage - trust me I know. Some of those Christians happen to be related to me. So that would be a Christian school of thought promoting violence.

quote:

Well, there are also Christian and Jewish schools of thought. I believe that Hitler at one point identified with Christianity -

Of course there are Christian and Jewish schools of thought. I was talking about schools of thought that promoted violence and terrorism. With your example of Hitler, he may have identified himself with Christianity but he did not use the bible to justify his actions.

Well, there are also Christian and Jewish schools of thought. I believe that Hitler at one point identified with Christianity - but yet not all Christians, if any - think it is okay to go out and kill Jews.

quote:

Muslims should not be held accountable for one person's act.

quote:

Muslims are just like any other people. Some do bad things, some do not - just like Christians or Jews. They are just people.

The problem is not individuals, but schools of thought. The fact is that there are several schools of Islamic thought that okay terrorism in the name of Islam. These groups are especially large in most parts of the Middle East. These schools of thought are what link Islam to terrorism, and make certain brands of Islam very violent, and pro-terrorist.

Muslims are just like any other people. Some do bad things, some do not - just like Christians or Jews. They are just people.

Muslims should not be held accountable for one person's act.

The US media only shows the fanatical Muslims, not the peaceful, law-abiding Muslims - of course people have a negative impression about Muslims if they only see one side of the story!

quote:

A single occurrence is not evidence of anything.

First of all there is much more than a single occurrence, however I do agree with you in your statement that most moderate Muslims don’t follow the orders of the extremists. The problem I have with them is that they don’t contradict those orders either.

quote:

True enough. But what about this warrants discrimination and racial profiling? The issue is not as black and white as you make it out to be. There is not just "for us" and "against us."

No it does not. I believe I stated that behavioral profiling is the most effective way to identify terrorists. I don’t think that we should discriminate against Muslims, but that really depends on what your interpretation of discrimination is. Basically when a Muslim is searched, I don’t want to hear any complaints.

quote:

. Any time a Muslim speaks out against violence, they're either labeled a liar by non-Muslims (who see all Muslims as terrorist)

This is not always true there have been many occasions where the Muslims have been accepted, there are times where they are considered to be lying, but those times usually have a backing.
For example when the Iranian president tells us that he wants peace we tell him that that is a load of crap. We know that he does not have peaceful intentions. Or when people in the west, like certain Members of CAIR have sympathies with organization like Hezbollah, they also loose credibility as a peaceful Muslim.

quote:

Why is Theo van Gogh dead?

Touché. But how many other prominent figures have been assassinated due to fatwas issued by extremist clerics? A single occurrence is not evidence of anything. There have been fatwas issued to kill Americans on sight, yet you don't often see Muslims peppering New York subway stations with Uzis, do you? If all Muslims were willing to listen to these Islamists and carry out their orders, we'd be seeing far more terrorist attacks on America and our allies. As it is, these attacks tend to be rare outside of the Middle East. They do indeed happen, but in far smaller numbers than they would if moderate and liberal Muslims paid much attention to what fundamentalists say.

quote:

The problem with the sympathizers is that they will not help end the war on terror, because either support the same end goal as the terrorists.

True enough. But what about this warrants discrimination and racial profiling? The issue is not as black and white as you make it out to be. There is not just "for us" and "against us."

Ironically, I think the biggest reason moderate Muslims don't do more to limit the Islamists is that their hands are tied. Any time a Muslim speaks out against violence, they're either labeled a liar by non-Muslims (who see all Muslims as terrorist) or targeted for death by extremist Muslims (who view them as traitors). So they don't do more because you lump them in with extremists for not doing more. Catch-22, you see?

quote:

Oh please. You know it's far more complicated than that. There are also bad "Christians" and no one is out to get them.

Yes, but these bad Christians are not the most propionate, and are addressed.

quote:

Because according to you, a Muslim is more likely to be a terrorist and a Hispanic is more likely to be illegal.

That is actually a true statement. We are currently facing a threat of Islamic extremists, and most illegals in the country are Hispanic, or Latino.

I’m not saying that we should live in fear, and oppress everyone from these groups but we should not ignore these groups because of who they are. For example complaints that ICE is racist because almost everyone it arrests is Hispanic is stupid. Of course most of the people they arrest are Hispanic. Organizations like ICE are already stretched thin so it is imperative that they apply their efforts where they have the most chance of working.

quote:

Define "sympathize." If these Muslims were aiding and abetting the extremists, you'd have a point. But just sympathizing?

I would say that there is two levels those who are not terrorists, but support the terrorist’s actions and those who don’t necessarily accept the terrorist’s methods, but support their main goal. Like Muslims who want the US to stop supporting Israel, but don’t necessarily support terror attacks on the US. The problem with the sympathizers is that they will not help end the war on terror, because either support the same end goal as the terrorists.

quote:

Why is Salman Rushdie (among other people) still alive?

Why is Theo van Gogh dead?

quote:

One thing that I think that should also be taken into consideration is that many Muslims who aren’t out to kill us sympathies with those who are.

Define "sympathize." If these Muslims were aiding and abetting the extremists, you'd have a point. But just sympathizing? You can sympathize with a person's cause yet disapprove of what they do. In other words, most Muslims do indeed agree that the United States should stop supporting Israel, but not all of them condone suicide bombs and violence.

quote:

Also the most prominent Muslims are the radical ones

Most prominent to whom? Moderate Muslims by no means listen to what radical clerics say. Do you realize how many fatwas have been issued by Islamists against certain people? If all Muslims listed to these Islamists and "sympathized" with them (using your definition), then why haven't these fatwas been carried out? Why is Salman Rushdie (among other people) still alive?

damn I was looking forward to coming in here and tearing his post apart but... YV just so dominated here that I don't need to bother

quote:

Wrong I have met Muslims, don’t make sweeping assumptions.

Ahahahahaha! Ah, you don't know how much I love the irony of that statement.

quote:

One thing that I think that should also be taken into consideration is that many Muslims who aren’t out to kill us sympathies with those who are. Also the most prominent Muslims are the radical ones, if the good Muslims out number the bad, why don’t they overthrow the bad Muslims.

Oh please. You know it's far more complicated than that. There are also bad "Christians" and no one is out to get them. But if you want to be paranoid about every single Muslim, hey, it's your life.

quote:

Yes to some extent. Racial or religious profiling does not do much to fight terror what is much more effective is behavior profiling. Racial profiling is more effective in something like dealing with illegal immigration.

You really do live in a tiny world, don't you? You think that everyone is out to get you. So tell me, who else should we watch out for as well other than Muslims and Hispanics? Did anyone else make your list? Who else are we suppose to discriminate? Because according to you, a Muslim is more likely to be a terrorist and a Hispanic is more likely to be illegal. So, who else should we single out? I'm very curious.

quote:

So you're condemning an entire group based on a few? I take it you haven't met many Muslims in your life...or any for that matter.

Wrong I have met Muslims, don’t make sweeping assumptions.
One thing that I think that should also be taken into consideration is that many Muslims who aren’t out to kill us sympathies with those who are. Also the most prominent Muslims are the radical ones, if the good Muslims out number the bad, why don’t they overthrow the bad Muslims.

quote:

Exactly, everyone should be viewed equally. You shouldn't single them out only because they are Muslims.

Yes to some extent. Racial or religious profiling does not do much to fight terror what is much more effective is behavior profiling. Racial profiling is more effective in something like dealing with illegal immigration.

Hahaha. Stop it, Amp. Sarcasm isn't helping my argument here. Or...maybe it is. :P

I agree with nephilem and next we should go after all the chinese because their goverment traditionaly hates us!

quote:

Yes many of them are so there is a significant threat.

So you're condemning an entire group based on a few? I take it you haven't met many Muslims in your life...or any for that matter.

quote:

No but at the same time it is not acceptable to give them less scrutiny then others.

Exactly, everyone should be viewed equally. You shouldn't single them out only because they are Muslims.

quote:

Okay, first of all, not all Muslims are out to kill us.

Yes many of them are so there is a significant threat.

quote:

okay to harass, discriminate and stereotype all Muslims?

No but at the same time it is not acceptable to give them less scrutiny then others.

Yeah, Shade. I know what you mean. But now I want an answer to my question.

quote:

The thread was getting inactive.

No!!! I thought I had sucessfully killed this damn topic! You don't need to revive it when it gets inactive.