I'm puzzled about something. Punk rockers and goths talk about how they are accepting, they just want to be themselves, and how they strive to be different and unique, which seems to me like abunch of bull. I mean, as for wanting to be yourselves and wanting to be different, you've basically all become the same. You all say yopur different, yet mos of you dress alike and "copycat" others. Some of you are posers, pretending because you think it's cool. And as for accepting others, it seems like someone can't be your friend if their not wearing a pair of jeand from hot topic or black nail polish? You've turned yourselves into one big minority of hate. Tell me, why do you do this?

If you tell someone not to conform, you are conforming them into your mold of thinking. There is no way to avoid conformity. Everyone has to fit into a mold of some kind, beit one or more.

With the rise of pop-punk music (not counting the Descendents, who invented it but remained true to their ideals) came the rise of punk cliques. I wouldn't go so far to say that the entire punk subculture is dead. Some of it's dumbed down, but the rest of it is just underground. Punk and punk-rock are generally associtated with each other because a lot of punk-rock embodies what punk stands for, but just because you're involved with one doesn't mean you are with the other.

Punk has a very complex definition, and the subculture spreads along a wide spectrum. Some punks are very left-wing and accepting, some are right-wing, prejudice, and alienating (and I wouldn't really call those people punks). Go to the essay section of bad religion's website to get a better definition.

I really do not understand the goth/skater/punk mentality. Many of them say they are just trying to be who they are. And I'm sure that is probably true for some of them, but many people are posers and it is just another clique for them to be fakey in and be a part of.

Ahh Real punk is dead. It's all about the ATTITUDE not the way you dress, talk, or the type of music one listens to that decides whether one is "punk" or not.

punk is music. Punk is not a certain type of people. There are people that dress to the genre of punk rock which is mostly dead. You see the copy cat "punks" because everything is conciderd punk when its mostly emo or indie rock. Such as yellow card, less than jake, bowling for soup, etc. The media decided they were tired of boy and girl bands. So they decided they would tell anyone that watches mtv that punk is cool now.

im punk and i dont dress in hottopic all the time if you saw me going down the street youd say wow look at that normal kid. punk is a lifestyle and all those posers just like the music. and ya .

What is with all the labels? Goodness! Why do we always have to stereotype people? Why can't we all just be individuals?

first of all i dont see how you can compare the too. and second why do you steriotype people
for instance i was in the store one day and i had on and stud bacelet except for it had crosses on it instead of studs and this guy whom i dont even know came up to me and said jesus and punk dont go together and that you shouldnt mix the too! when the fact is there are alot of christian punk bands and stud braclets dont even have to mean punk!!!!!
email me w/ your thoughts on this at christiansurf01@netscape.net
p.s JESUS ROCKS AND YOUR STONE COLD DEAD W/O HIM!

i think ur getting confused between goths and punk rockers here. punk rockers are all about the music and i don't think that they would hate n e 1 just becuz they don't listent to punk rock. they may not get along with them becuz they might have totally different beliefs and such.
goths on the otherhand do strive to be unique and different and all that stuff. but doesn't everyone? everyone who wants to be different ends up in some sort of group or another. its being different together...LoL. and maybe they don't like ppl who aren't them becuz those people LABEL them huh? n e wayz i'd like to know if u've ever TRIED to be friends with a goth or punk rocker or skater?

teddy--just read your post. good job.

sorry when i said that about been thru stuff, i was talkin to that guy who said most goths and w/e just make up that thier lives su*k. it just annoyed me right there, so i am sorry fot the confusion.

to realize that we all are humans and get along

not ur exact words, but that's what i meant.

sorry really tired

~*Foxy*~

Wait, foxykittin, if only what was so easy?

-Nicole

wow teddy your right. you know alot! keep posting!

I don't know what a punk is nor do I know what a Goth is. I don't know what the meaning of popular is. I don't know what is a prep. I don't know anything about these labels or groups or whatever they are called. I don't know and I will admit that.

I just mind my own business and whoever comes along to talk to me then I will end up being their friends, hopefully.

I can't do what you people do and say "this is what a punk is......" or "this is what a Goth is...." "This is what they like....." "This is what they dislike...." and all this stuff. I can't do it because I have no idea what they are to begin with.

I see people as people and they aren't exactly different but they aren't exactly the same. I am glad when whoever talks to me. I mind my own business so because of that I don't know anything about these labels/groups.

However, I know one thing, there's a lot of stereotypes for every group/label/cliques and that causes the trouble. People thinking this because your a Goth or a punk. People thinking you are into this because your a Goth or a punk.

This part might be a little confusing!!!!! It's just my little theory

Some people are going along with the stereotypes, like for example: Because your Goth, you have to wear black. Because your a prep, you have to get good grades. I'm not sure what the stereotypes are, those were guessings.

I think that's why people from a certain group do/think/dress and act a certain way because they created their own stereotypes. However, there are some people who like doing/thinking/dressing and acting that certain way because that's what they like. However, because they seem to other people, normally people outside the group, like that certain group that created those certain stereotypes for themselves then that person, who just likes that stuff has that label put onto them and they accept it. Therefore making them Goth, Punk, Preppy and so on and so forth.

Now or even before they accepted being their label, there's are stereotypes but theses are different stereotypes. These stereotypes are created by other people, normally people outside the group. So there's stereotypes created by the group and there's stereotypes created by other people outside the group. Then the conflict begins of what is or what is not this certain group's stereotypes. So that's where all your meanings come from. That's why they are so many meanings. That's way some groups are against other groups.

Lastly, the stereotypes that the certain group created for themselves to begin with starts to change over the years so some new punks/Goths/
Preps are separated into two groups. One group that hasn't changed the stereotypes at all over the years. People call this "True Punks, Goths, Preps" and the other group changed with their new stereotypes and the olds stereotypes. These are called fakes/posers/wanna BES. Therefore makes groups turn against their own groups because some people are a bit different than the group now.

That's why people have so many meaning to "true punk music". For example: Blink 182, Simple Plan and etc. are all fakes/posers/wanna bes to some punks but to others punks it's "true" and "underground music" to punks is what is "true punk music" That's only one example of groups turning against their own groups. This punk one is the one that is most fought over so that's why I gave you this example.

Are you following what I am saying? I don't know if I explained it right. However, this is my theory that I created from observing others. I know it's dumb and probably doesn't make sense because I didn't explain it right. However, please don't make fun of me because of this.

This is something else:

What bugs me is when people say "I been through more stuff in life than you." My question is when was life measured by how much you been through? How do those people who say that, know what this other person faced? How do they know that they faced more?

Music influence a lot of people, right?

Bye n have a nice day

then dont say you cant tell us what you did when its irrelevant. you changed his mind, now leave it at that.

not that! sicko

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then one night he realized i wasn't i'm not gonna tell what happend that night that changed his mind about me but it did.

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you seriously talk too damn much.

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i know alot of people. but i dont talk to any of them. only one of them has tried to get me to talk to people. but i still dont trust him.

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yeah that's what Luci told me. He hated me. He thought i was like everyone else. then one night he realized i wasn't i'm not gonna tell what happend that night that changed his mind about me but it did.

To tell you the truth I think everyone has goth in them if they want to admit it or not. We all have the same thoughts alot of the time. We are all depressed at one time or another. I realized this when I went to camp. This is a very emotional camp where you really talk about how you feel. I was shocked when the preps started saying things exactly the way I felt.

If only people realized how much we feel alike. How much we all hate the stereotypes and feel we're being put down. And how much we all get mad at society. And that we really can show our true emotions. Like a band said
"Love and other socially acceptable emotions are morphine
They're morphine
Cleverly concealing primal urges often felt but rarely seen
Rarely seen"
I wish we could break down that wall of hiding from ourselves. If we could then society and the world would be completly changed.

But then I have to say to Nicole--if only it were that easy.

I know how everyone always claims to be in a group like being a punk, or prep, or goth...
but anyways, this probably sounds stupid, but does it really matter!!! jeez!!! were all human and were all normal people. Well for the most part we all are. I can't explain some people. I think my point is, whats the point of having groups of people and stuff like that. I think a goth could be a normal person who just likes to wear black!!! ok that didn't come out exactly as I had wanted it to, but hopefully you sort of get it.

**Nicole