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If you repent - and truly repent - of your lifestyle, then you shall be not only SAVED, but changed.

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Yeah, and green men live on mars.

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You people are biting into the demonic propaganda that is "I was born this way" and it's just not right - in fact, it's horribly, horribly wrong.

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Prove it. It's all in your head. We have facts to prove its all natural, get over it. We've observed homosexuality outside the human species in various other animals. And it's not a disease or disorder.

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The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a "cure."

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If your hearts won't change, then your lifestyle won't change.

If you repent - and truly repent - of your lifestyle, then you shall be not only SAVED, but changed.

You people are biting into the demonic propaganda that is "I was born this way" and it's just not right - in fact, it's horribly, horribly wrong.

Of course, you people won't believe that because your heart doesn't want to believe it. Once your heart says "okay, it's time to change," then you will truly change.

May God have mercy on your souls...one day perhaps, the heart will finally lose the hardness...HOPEfully.

I'm a heterosexual female, so maybe my opinion doesn't really mean that much to some people. But my uncle is gay, and we are really close (he's only a few years older than me, it's actually kind of weird), and just seeing what he had to go through before he decided to come out and start dating men. He used to be straight but then something changed. I still love him for who he is and seeing how difficult it was for him I don't think it is a choice. I'm not sure whether it is a choice or not, I'm not sure whether any of us can definiantly say that or not, but what I do know is that we should just love everyone for who they are. There's enough hate in world, don't add more.

I believe it's not a choice. I think I'll sound kinda stupid coming after someone like ICELAND. He spoke so true, I feel like just someone on the outside.

A really close friend of mine, let's call him Dave, was one of the most popular guys in school. He's on the soccer team, track team, and football. He is strong and very masculine. He is a big man on campus, with a ton of guy friends, as well as some girls. He is also so handsome, even I had a crush on him.

But when all these girls kept asking him out, and he kept refusing-most of his guy friends just thought he already had a girl on the side or didn't want to be tied down. The girls just thought they weren't good enough. But when he refused one of the most beautiful girls at our school I had to ask him what I thought deep down.

I went to his house one weekend and confronted him head on, was he gay? I didn't do it mean, or so I could just go and gossip. I cared about him and if he was I didn't want him to end up hating himself for it. Knowing all the other friends he had I knew he hadn't told them.

When I asked he shrugged it off. Like I was joking. I told him I was serious. He didn't believe me. Finally I took his hand and told him that I would never tell anyone. I told him one of my secrets deep down that no one has ever heard. He just looked at me went to his bedroom door looked outside in the hall, shut it and locked it. Then he began to cry telling me how he had to deal with it.

HE never wanted to be gay. Like ICELAND it happened one day, he just realized what he was. I am so glad *Dave could talk to someone. He hasn't told anyone else yet. He said he wants to at least wait until he is in college to break it to his parents.

I just have to wish him luck, and you to ICELAND and also anyone else who has had the courage to tell at least one person. I know it is hard, but in the end it's worth it.

~*Foxy*~

Icelander informed me of this thread, and here is a story of another thread's argument

Me and gatorade had a mail conversation when I couldn't log on to the boards for some reason, and let's check how it went. I'll be updating this as it goes on.

First, I inform him I'm bisexual and that I know I did NOT choose to be this way. Couldn't find the actual text. I know I said that rap is bad music, though.

Gatorade:dont judge my music, and i dont care what u think because i know whats right. the way you feel is sad and wrong. people choose to be gay. and thats all there is to it.

Me:I can't believe this. To claim that someone with firsthand experience knows less about homosexuality than you? I know that I did not choose to be this way, both me and my brother are. It's genetic. And no, before you say so, there is no incest. I, myself, am buddhist. I don't preach god, I only try to make people happy and eliminate hatred. To find any form of love as wrong because you are loving the wrong thing is a surefire way to just spread hatred and discontent. Me? I'm extremely hateful of you, and yet I try to use more logic than just " i dont care what u think because i know whats right." There is no absolute truth in this world ethically, any type of love can be false or for personal gain. And I feel sorry for you, not because you haven't been saved by jesus or some ****, which you probably think you have, but because you have started hating a form of love and claiming that the people in this catergory know less about it than you? Please, I ask you, try not to hate love. That will only lead to unhappiness.

Me, I know it's not a choice. And I don't care what other people think. I'm bisexual. I remember the exact moment I realized I was bi, and it was definetely not my choice. I go to a very diverse camp, and met lots of people who were openly gay there. and there was just about no discrimination.
However, that was Mas.
I live in Texas.
Which really sucks, and there are no hot guys.
I wanna move to boston. At least gayness is legal there.

I've been reading this board for about an hour now. While much of the debate has been good, and a lot has been bad, something that keeps reappearing and not really being discussed is REALLY irritating me.

The fact that people think being gay is a choice. Just read this story and think to yourself "What if this happened to me...". It might help some straight people (and gay too) know what it's like for a gay kid.


When I was young, I liked girls. I was attracted to them, I had crushes on them, I wanted to be near them, I dreamed about them, etc., so I was a normal guy. I had a large group of close friends and was well known in school because I was extremely athletic and very smart, and really nice, so everyone respected and looked up to me (I might sound like I'm bragging, but actually everyone says I'm modest). Also, I had what America thinks is the perfect family, hardworking, close - together, picture - perfect, large and happy, religious and traditional, and devoid of anything to make it different or unusual. I was a lucky guy, who had, basically the "perfect" life.

And suddenly, in the midst of puberty in Junior High, I woke up one morning, went to school, and instead of daydreaming about Courtney(the girl I liked, who I asked to the dance), I looked at the guy next to me, and couldn't get my mind off of how hot he was. And from then on I was not sexually attracted to girls, but guys. I was immediately shocked and angry, because I DID NOT want to be gay. Even though I only sort-of believed in God, I prayed to him to make this only a "phase" or something, to make me straight again.

I tried to find if there was something that was making me gay, but there wasn't. I had never met any gay people, I had never played with dolls, or tried on my sister's clothes. I didn't know any girly guys, I had never been touched innapropriately by a man (or woman either), never eaten any weird chemicals, never had any serious injuries, didn't have anything wrong with my body or mind, I went through puberty at a normal rate and time and I developed fully. I never liked flowers or butterflies or rainbows or the color pink. I didn't talk with a lisp or like madonna. I never did anything associated with gay stererotypes or anything. I was just "one of the guys" in my circle of friends. I did soccer and football and track, did well in school, was smart, went to church, and had good, normal, family and friends.

But for some reason, I had turned out gay.

Whenever my friends would ask me, who do you like? I'd lie. Whenever the question arose "if you could have anything you wanted.. or, "if you had one wish..." I always made something up, while thinking to myself, I WISH I WAS STRAIGHT!!!! I really didn't want to be gay, and no one had the slightest idea that I was. If a really beautiful girl walked by I'd think "wow, she's really beautiful". If a really hot guy walked by I'd think "wow, he's really hot. I wish I could have sex with him right now". In Senior High, when my friends would say "aren't you going to ask her out? You know she likes you!" or something like that, I would make up an excuse, such as "She's not my type, or, no, I like some other girl". This went on for three years, from age 13 to age 16 (me currently), until I finally during a church youth camp, at two a.m., in a heart-pounding, gut-wrenching, why-am-I-so-nervous-about-this-moment, told one of my closest friends I was gay. He's an awesome guy, and said that he was shocked and surprised, but that he loved me anyway. He even was willing to talk to me about it.

I have yet to tell my other close friends, though
I know they'll be cool. And I guess I'm one of the "popular" kids in school, so I don't see anyone messing with me much after I tell my other friends, teammates, and schoolmates. But telling my family and relatives will be hard since, even though my 10 uncles and aunts and 20 cousins and 4 grandparents, are as close as possible, I know it will change things since nothing that radical and unusual has happened in my family. Divorce? No way! Voting liberal? Nuh-uh. Swithching churches? Not good. Living together before marriage? OH MY GOD! I don't even think my grandparents even know what "gay" means! It's not like my family/relatives will love me less, it's just that (trust me on this) they'll be weirded out, and things will definitely change.

I'm nervous enough about this, and I have the best possible friends and family. Just imagine what this would be like if I wasn't popular, attractive, masculine, athletic, kind, and smart. If I was one of the kids that everyone picks on already, who has no friends, or is ugly, or not that smart. I could easily see it getting so bad I would want to kill myself. When you are gay, you hold a dark secret inside you for a couple years, and you become paranoid that someone will find out. Then you become tired of thinking "I wish I was straight...I shouldn't have to hide this...I don't want my life to change..." and, maybe, you decide to tell people. I'm not going to go any further because I haven't done this yet (except for close friends), and because after you tell people is when the teasing and harassment and $#!+ starts (which I see as inevitable in all cases, terrible in some, mild in others). I also have been babbling on and on, and must manage to somehow tear my fingers from the keyboard.

So in conclusion, I never thought it would happen to me, but when puberty hit, I found out I was gay and absolutely hated it and would have given anything to be straight. I still wish I was straight, but know for sure that I am gay and realize that there is nothing wrong with that, nor anything I can do to change it. So when I hear so many people say that being gay is a CHOICE, I want to scream because for me it was definitely not a choice. And it's not like I was "turned gay" by my parents or anything either (which is why I described my life, to illustrate that I was what people would say was the perfect kid, nothing making me different or odd or "slightly feminine" or whatever). So there is nothing that MADE me gay, and I definitely didn't CHOOSE to be gay, and I AM POSITIVE THT I WAS BORN GAY. (The switch happened at puberty, because that's when the sexual engine begins and takes over). All teens have their first sexual feelings at puberty, so that's when the attractive to either sex (opposite or same) reveals itself. You do not KNOW you are gay or straight until you hit puberty. I thought I was straight, and look what happened to me!

My story is proof that I was born gay. I hated it, I didn't choose it, nothing turned me gay, my body just grew that way. After three years I now accept it, though I still would rather be straight.

BEING GAY IS DEFINITELY, POSITIVELY, NOT A CHOICE.


Hopefully, someone will read this and learn something from it. If not, thats okay too. Peace out!
-Icelander



P.S. (I'm from Minnesota, I'm not actually from Iceland or anything. And again, being gay is not a choice.)

your poor children, marroquina615.

-rito

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I dont think gay people should be killed or anything like that, but one thing i would depriv them of is adopting, i cry when i think about a kid going to school saying he has 2 moms or 2 dads, i cry of pity,thats is sad a sad childhood you cannot do that to a child not a poor innocent child expose them to that if gay people wanna get married i say forget the kids

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So you're crying over orphaned children who are taken into loving homes? You're crying over the fact that a child feels loved and accepted?? Thats just idiotic. There are many children that have been raised by 2 dads or moms and grow up like any other kid. There's nothing to cry about.

A sad childhood my a**. I've seen lots of children raised by gays and they're as happy as anyone, i would be too if i had no family and then suddenly someone (regardless of what they are) wanted me.

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i have a homosexual friend and i love him but if my son or daughter in the future ever came to me and told me that he or she was gay i would go nuts , i would cry i would scream, i dunno but i would disown them i think, i would ask god wat i did to deserve that, other peoples kids but not mine

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How could learning about your child's sexuality change what you love about them? Its funny how you talk about how sad it is when a "poor, innocent child" is adopted by gays, when you're saying you would disown your own flesh and blood because they are gay. It upsets me when people say that. It just... sickens me.

If your child was gay, why should you consider it a burden? It shouldn't matter what they are. they're your children. If my child turned out to be gay i'd love him/her the same way i loved him/her before i knew. Nothing would change.

You can accept a gay friend, but someone you'll love far more than any friend you would find it nessecary to disown? Someone as heartless and ignorant as you probably shouldnt have any children at all.

I thought about the homosexual thing, I am a muslim and i dont wanna preach to anyone. I'm not gonna say it's a sin, bcuz ppl hear that 24/7, im not gonna say adam and eve not adam and steve bcuz some ppl dont believe in god or adam and eveand they hear these words alot and dont care for them i've learned to know this. i know just bcuz i believe in that stuff, not everyone else does.
but all of this religious stuff aside, i thought about it. it makes me mad when people say im gay being gay is natural, i was born in like this and stuff like that bcuz its not natural i reasoned that it must be wrong because a man liking a woman and vice versa can create new life two men together cannot two women together cannot its not a natural thing,that fact should tell people something you are not meant to be with the same sex, unless the world to become extinct,thats would happen if the whole world was gay eventually how would we reproduce and i know lesbians would sometimes have babies by getting a man to u know impregnate them, but that doing something natural , that also should tell people something, that you cant avoid the natural way of doing it, and about adoption if the whole world was gay what kids would people adopt, and they are not your real children anyway its in people's mind not in their hearts, if 2 men could have babies then maybe i would accept it,i dont know

I dont think gay people should be killed or anything like that, but one thing i would depriv them of is adopting, i cry when i think about a kid going to school saying he has 2 moms or 2 dads, i cry of pity,thats is sad a sad childhood you cannot do that to a child not a poor innocent child expose them to that if gay people wanna get married i say forget the kids,
i have a homosexual friend and i love him but if my son or daughter in the future ever came to me and told me that he or she was gay i would go nuts , i would cry i would scream, i dunno but i would disown them i think, i would ask god wat i did to deserve that, other peoples kids but not mine

i think hate crimes against them are wrong

LoL Don't forget the cookies

Hooray!

HalosOnEarth and I finally find something to agree upon!

...too bad it has to be someone else's stubbornness and inability to imagine!

Oh well! Let's celebrate with cake and ice cream!

Oh my gosh I think it's happening...

I agree with annielou on this one.

You don't have to be or believe anything. I'm not a sumo-wrestler and no where near one. I'm not a murderer and neither are the profilers for murder cases but they still do it.

Your statement (not annielou's) sounded a bit immature or unthoughtout.

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This is a tactic I've used several times when researching actors, authors, murderers, rapists, and once a comedian. I make an attempt to get inside the heads of those I want to know more about. Though difficult at times, its proven to be a most consistent form of fact-finding for me.

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pandora relates:

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No I can't imagine myself as a gay woman, beacuse that's not what I am.

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I'm not a famous actor, comedian, or author.

I'm certainly not a murderer or rapist.

Nor am I a bigot.

...but I can make the attempt to place myself in these characters' shoes.

I wrap my mind around both sides of an issue.

...especially one this controversial.

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Well I'm so glad ya'll now what yall are talking about the show. Hey it's still disgusting.

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i'd really like to know why... and dont include the bible... screw the bible...

That's just wrong. The discrimination part I mean. I don't agree with homosexuality or bisexuality, but for the love of God... we're in the 21st century! What's wrong with these people? When did someone label them perfect?

Until people are perfect, then they can discriminate against anybody (homosexuals, different races, etc.) but until then... shut your traps you hypocrites.

I'm so sorry Andrew that you have to go through this and see society in that light because they truly are hypocrites. I just hope you and your past, present and future boyfriends find a more peaceful life

Well I'm so glad ya'll now what yall are talking about the show. Hey it's still disgusting. Annielou it's not peers like me who makes your friend ashamed. If he truly didn't believe that homosexuality was a sin then he would just come out. People like me who have their own opinions don't conform to society's beliefs, and more people should be like me. No I can't imagine myself as a gay woman, beacuse that's not what I am.

in my religion (I'm a Christian)homosexuality
is a sin and God destroyed 2 cities partialy because of it (i say partialy because there were other factorsalong with it)
but i don't think homosexuals should be treated any differntly then heterosexuals cause you should 'hate the sin,love the sinner'

and thats all i have to say these are my beliefs and i'm not afraid to express them

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I don't even watch Sex in the City and I never said it was good, but 5 gay men walking around the city trying to turn straight men gay is just sick.

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You're an idiot. It is not five homosexual men walking around the city "turning" straight men gay, and I watched an episode, so I know what the **** I'm talking about, unlike you. On the episode that I saw, it had this guy who was an artist and he had a exhibit, so the five men took him to get his hair fixed, took him shopping for new clothes, and then redecorated his house. No where in the show did they "turn" him gay.

Hey everyone!I do think Homosexuality is wrong in fact I think it's a sin! I won't be EMBARRASED about what I think! But I'm a cristian so those are my beliefs. But I this case I do have gay & biosexual friends. I don't think ppl should be rude to them. Besides I do like gay ppl. But if there gay thats not who they are it's there lifestyle. So I do like homosexuals I just don't like there lifestyles. I do disagree with what they do. But I'm not going to critzize them for it

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I don't even watch Sex in the City and I never said it was good, but 5 gay men walking around the city trying to turn straight men gay is just sick.

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pandora, that show is NOT about 5 gay men making straight men gay. its about 5 gay men giving ratty looking straight guys makeovers.