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I mean I wouldv'e have been. I just changed my mind though. It's not worth it.

You suck. Not because you disagree with us, nothing wrong with that, only because you change your opinions faster and more often than John Kerry. And you're a failure at contractions. Go away.

LTR that just went right over her head, sarcasm is lost on her

But just to say for the record gay civil union (or whatever you want to call it) is a personal life and I think the goverment needs to stay out of our private lives as much as possible if I want to enter in to civil union with a sofa(it's a joke I don't want to marrty a sofa) that should not be a goverment issue.

I do have a question though. Elton John is homosexual and knighted he got married or whatever you call it a few years back so what does that make his spouse? You see when you get knighted you get the title "Sir" and your wife get's the title "Lady" so if Sir Elton John is married to another man what title does his husband get?

Riiiight... You are one Effed up character.

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::GASP::And all this time I thought you we on our side

I mean I wouldv'e have been. I just changed my mind though. It's not worth it.

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I'm not going to pretend to like homosexuality though.

::GASP::And all this time I thought you we on our side

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But you are upset because people are arguing with you about something you disagree with anyway.

Yeah sorry about that. Anyways I do believe I told you that I don't think it's fair to take away someone's rights just because I don't believe in their lifestyle.

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Do you agree with homosexuality?" but, "Should Bush be able to ban gay marriage?"

Yeah but we're talking about homosexuals getting married. So homosexuality is going to come up. If that's the case then why is everyone trying to convince me that homosexuality is ok?

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If you have any hardcore logical reasons for why gay marriage should be banned that do not include religion or your personal feelings toward homosexuals then, throw them into the ring.

That's just stupid. People say don't use your own beliefs or religions to state your opinions. But you can state your opinions. Well that's just ridiculous. That's like saying "I believe sex before marriage is wrong." Then someone else saying "Why do you think that and don't use your personal beliefs or religion." What!! That's so stupid, because your personal beliefs and religion (or lack of) makes you who you are. People don't have the same religions and I understand that, but I'm not going to compromise mine. If I believe one thing then I'm going to voice them. It's crazy to not do that. If that's how I'm raised then of course that's going to be a part of my life. Like I said before it's not fair for me to say someone doesn't desrve the same rights that I have. I'm not going to pretend to like homosexuality though. Then before you say "Well I was just talking about this thread", well someone told me that on the homsexuality thread. It's ridiculous.

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But you are upset because people are arguing with you about something you disagree with anyway.

Yeah but I

quote:

Originally posted by pandora03:
Neither did you. You have absolutely nothing to say that could even help change someone's mind.

Yes I did.

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I don't have to state "for the sake of argument." I don't owe you anything.

I didn't say you did. But you are upset because people are arguing with you about something you disagree with anyway. So either you accept what you did to yourself or leave.

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What you need to do is stop pushing your ideals on other people. Anytime someone comes on here and doesen't agree everyone attacks them.

I don't do that. When did I do that?

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If someone doesn't agree with homosexuality that doesn't make them a homophobe.

About 99 percent of the time it does because most people who "don't agree with homosexuality" have absolutely no basis for their argument. So they are mostly just arguing the other side because they are homophobes. And, besides, if you would be so kind as to check the topic of this thread, the question is not, "Do you agree with homosexuality?" but, "Should Bush be able to ban gay marriage?"

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You're no better than anyone else.

Didn't say I was.

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You guys think that you're so open minded, because you agree with homosexuality. That doesn't make you open minded. It makes you stupid.

Actually I don't think it makes me necessarily open-minded...it makes me smart because I follow logic that say there is no reason to disagree with homosexuality.

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I'm not trying to force my ideals on anyone. If I say I disagree with it, because of personal or religious reasons everyone attacks me.

No we do not. We simply challenge those reasons and try to make you think about them more.

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All of a sudden my religion is wrong, or stupid, etc.

My religion is your religion...yet, I still disagree with you.

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So why is it wrong, just because it doesn't agree with what this world agrees with? It's what I grew up with and it's what I follow. Just because the rest of the world aren't Christians doesn't mean I'm not allowed to voice my opinions.

Just to make sure you know, not all Christians agree with your opinions. Not all Christians have to have the same opinions because of the open interpretation of the Bible.

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If homosexuals can defend themselves then I can too right? Shouldn't I be able to do that without being called stupid and every other name? I mean you have the right to believe what you want, but if you want me to be respectful then you have to also.

I don't remember ever being disrespectful. And I apologize if I was.



And finally, on a side note, on this particular thread it ceases to matter what your religion is or isn't. Because this is a topic about a political and legal decision to be made. If I remember correctly, America is not governed by a theocracy so therefore religion should be kept out of the "Should Bush be able to ban Gay Marriage?" topic. If you have any hardcore logical reasons for why gay marriage should be banned that do not include religion or your personal feelings toward homosexuals then, throw them into the ring. If you do not, then it doesn't seem that you belong here. Becuase all of us on the pro-gay marriage side tend to keep religion out of it for that very reason.

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If I say I disagree with it, because of personal or religious reasons everyone attacks me. All of a sudden my religion is wrong, or stupid, etc. So why is it wrong, just because it doesn't agree with what this world agrees with? It's what I grew up with and it's what I follow. Just because the rest of the world aren't Christians doesn't mean I'm not allowed to voice my opinions.

Seems to me that your hiding behind your religion. You assume that your religious reasons for not likeing something are dissmissed because they are Christian values. Thats not true.You have also said,

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Most people think that all Christians are conservative, hypocrites, close-minded, etc.

YOU said it not anyone else. I think that most people on this site could care less what your religion is. It all matter on what you use to debate with. Oviously religious material should not be used because of all the different religions on this site alone. The only thing that will result form a religious debate is people yelling "Your religion sucks" "Yeah well your going to hell!" " Nu-uh because I don't believe in Hell" ect. If you want to make a point just have something to back it up with.

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Exactly if you don't believe in sin in any form then I guess it's up to someone else's interpretation.

Here's my take: if it was meant to be "interpretted", let God do that when the time comes. Until then, "Love thy neighbor"... "Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you"... "Judge not, and ye shall not be judge; condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned; forgive, and ye shall be forgiven" - and sorry 'bout the explosion last night. I was mad for pretty much no reason and took your last post to mean that you hated homosexuals and therefore they don't deserve rights because they are "wrong" in "God's eyes"

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"You all hate me because I am christian."

That's funny I don't remember saying that. Stop using my faith as a shield. A shield for what? For what I believe? Well now I thought that was one reason why you followed a religion.

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Of course, this probably doesn't mean much coming from someone who doesn't believe in sin in any form, but it's something to think about, for sure.

Exactly if you don't believe in sin in any form then I guess it's up to someone else's interpretation.

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I agree with MissMurder. You don't se me saying "You doon't like me just because I'm gay" everytime some one disagrees with me.

Again didn't say that. It truly doesn't matter whether you like me. No one on here is my friend so why should I care? The fact of the matter is if I say anything it's like my beliefs doesn't matter. Someone even told me "Tell me why you think homosexuality is wrong, and don't use your religion." Well that's just stupid. My religion helps make me who I am. I'm not supposed to use arguments where I quote the bible. I haven't become a victim. Victims are weak. I can handle whatever it is you have to say. However don't expect me to not ise my religion or speak my opinions. Many people do not find anything wrong with homosexuals except their sexual preferences. What's wrong with two people that love each other get married? Nothing.

I agree with MissMurder. You don't se me saying "You doon't like me just because I'm gay" everytime some one disagrees with me. . Its so annoying to sign on here and see that in every forum you have become a 'victim'.

Who says homosexuality is necessarily a sin? I find it perfectly natural. And anything natural is not a sin. Sin, according to most religions, is contrary to the natural world. Homosexuality, however, occurs naturally in animals as well as humans. Thus, it's not a sin. Of course, this probably doesn't mean much coming from someone who doesn't believe in sin in any form, but it's something to think about, for sure.

Pandora chill.

Just because some people don't agree with you doesn't mean everyone's out tto get you. And stop using your faith as a shield. Stop saying, "You all hate me because I am christian." ITS NOT TRUE.

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While I doubt you're about to copy Fred Phelps' clan, you still haven't proven yourself to truly understand the complex tension between freedom and equality, not even how this would effect you other than spiritually (which is something I don't really comprehend, but whatever).

It doesn't matter whether you understand the spirtual beliefs or not. At least that's what I was told when I said I didn't understand the homosexual lifestyle. You're still trying to say that I believe banning gay marriage is right. Well I know that reading may be hard for some, but I do believe I said that I didn't think it was. How can I say that someone doesn't deserve the same rights that I have? I'm not going to rehash everything I stated earlier. You can go back and read it if you want. I'm not going to throw out what I want in the bible and follow the easy things. Some people pick and choose what they want to follow and it doesn't work that way. If you are going to commit to being a Christian and accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior then you have to be willing to take everything that comes with that. Many people on here call Chrisitans all kinds of names and believes things that aren't true. However people still choose it and follow their beliefs everyday.

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I'm Christian - was raised and still follow most Christian ideals - but that doesn't make me a psycho bent on eliminating other rational people's opinions, beliefs, personalities, traits, or their very being.

I don't ever remember saying that as a Christian. Most people think that all Christians are conservative, hypocrites, close-minded, etc. It's not like that at all. There are Christians out there that really do care, but stick to their beliefs. I'm not going to say that I hate them, because I don't. I love everyone and I'm supposed to, but I can't love sin. If I believe that it's a sin then it is in my eyes. I'm not a psycho. Many Christians are not psychos. In fact any person that sticks to their spirtual beliefs are not psychos.

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If I say I disagree with it, because of personal or religious reasons everyone attacks me. All of a sudden my religion is wrong, or stupid, etc. So why is it wrong, just because it doesn't agree with what this world agrees with? It's what I grew up with and it's what I follow. Just because the rest of the world aren't Christians doesn't mean I'm not allowed to voice my opinions. If homosexuals can defend themselves then I can too right?

Some conceptions of religion are skewed over time, others may be a complete misconception and still others may just be one persons interpretation. But still what is even more important is the action taken on the basis of religion. While I doubt you're about to copy Fred Phelps' clan, you still haven't proven yourself to truly understand the complex tension between freedom and equality, not even how this would effect you other than spiritually (which is something I don't really comprehend, but whatever). Here's the deal, I'm Christian - was raised and still follow most Christian ideals - but that doesn't make me a psycho bent on eliminating other rational people's opinions, beliefs, personalities, traits, or their very being. How does gay marriage hinder one's freedom? And how in the world is it getting rid of equality? Because if those are the two foundations of this 'democracy', at least one needs to be infringed before I see any reason for banning gay marriage.

One or two people jump on you and you assume the whole world's out to get you? That's one heck of a persecution complex you've got there.

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This last little pointed insult only makes you look more like a homophobic hypocrite.

If you say this makes me a homphobe so be it.

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Aren’t you a little hypocritical? No one is trying to push their ideals on you. Actually it’s the other way around.

I'm not trying to force my ideals on anyone. If I say I disagree with it, because of personal or religious reasons everyone attacks me. All of a sudden my religion is wrong, or stupid, etc. So why is it wrong, just because it doesn't agree with what this world agrees with? It's what I grew up with and it's what I follow. Just because the rest of the world aren't Christians doesn't mean I'm not allowed to voice my opinions. If homosexuals can defend themselves then I can too right? Shouldn't I be able to do that without being called stupid and every other name? I mean you have the right to believe what you want, but if you want me to be respectful then you have to also.

And now for a little reality check...

quote:

Originally posted by pandora03:
Neither did you. You have absolutely nothing to say that could even help change someone's mind.

And you do?
I don't think they are trying to change anyone’s mind. I believe they are just defending their beliefs, which is more than you can say Ms. "Devil’s Advocate".

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I don't have to state "for the sake of argument." I don't owe you anything.

Your right. You don’t have to do anything. Maybe if you made yourself clear people would be able to understand you. Then you wouldn’t always be the “victim”

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What you need to do is stop pushing your ideals on other people. Anytime someone comes on here and doesen't agree everyone attacks them.

Aren’t you a little hypocritical? No one is trying to push their ideals on you. Actually it’s the other way around.

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If someone doesn't agree with homosexuality that doesn't make them a homophobe. You're no better than anyone else.

Disagreeing with homosexuality doesn’t make you a homophobe. Repeatedly saying it disgusts you does.
No one said they are better than you.

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You guys think that you're so open minded, because you agree with homosexuality. That doesn't make you open minded. It makes you stupid.

This last little pointed insult only makes you look more like a homophobic hypocrite.

Neither did you. You have absolutely nothing to say that could even help change someone's mind. I don't have to state "for the sake of argument." I don't owe you anything. What you need to do is stop pushing your ideals on other people. Anytime someone comes on here and doesen't agree everyone attacks them. If someone doesn't agree with homosexuality that doesn't make them a homophobe. You're no better than anyone else. You guys think that you're so open minded, because you agree with homosexuality. That doesn't make you open minded. It makes you stupid.