quote:

Originally posted by Ilive4Him:

quote:

Originally posted by aleeksandra118:
The issue I have with people who say homosexuality is wrong is not that they hold that that opinion, it's that they try to force it on other people and their image of other people, gay or not, is altered. Why can't you just say " My religion says that homosexuality is wrong, so it is not for me." And leave it at that. Why do you have to convince gay people that they are sinning? It's like saying being black is wrong! You have to change! That's not going to happen!

some people may try to make others think differently, but not all.....i personally think it's wrong, but i don't go around putting a gun to yours and everyone else's head saying," believe in christianity, and believe that homosexuality is wrong, or i'll KILL you" now that's messed up, but you cant say that most people try to force others to believe the stuff they believe....

I'm not saying that all people are like that, but the small amount of people that I have meant that are very religious and believe that being gay is a sin are like what I described before. I just think that a lot of people think that everybody else agrees with them. Not all people. In fact, a lot of people are very accepting.

Liveforhim, no one is saying you or anyone is putting a gun to someone's head. Also, I disproved your bible sources. You might want to look at your faith crumble beneath your feet.

quote:

Originally posted by aleeksandra118:
The issue I have with people who say homosexuality is wrong is not that they hold that that opinion, it's that they try to force it on other people and their image of other people, gay or not, is altered. Why can't you just say " My religion says that homosexuality is wrong, so it is not for me." And leave it at that. Why do you have to convince gay people that they are sinning? It's like saying being black is wrong! You have to change! That's not going to happen!

some people may try to make others think differently, but not all.....i personally think it's wrong, but i don't go around putting a gun to yours and everyone else's head saying," believe in christianity, and believe that homosexuality is wrong, or i'll KILL you" now that's messed up, but you cant say that most people try to force others to believe the stuff they believe....

The issue I have with people who say homosexuality is wrong is not that they hold that that opinion, it's that they try to force it on other people and their image of other people, gay or not, is altered. Why can't you just say " My religion says that homosexuality is wrong, so it is not for me." And leave it at that. Why do you have to convince gay people that they are sinning? It's like saying being black is wrong! You have to change! That's not going to happen!

quote:

Originally posted by YouthVoice:
Double Post, Sorry.

quote:

Most of the hate comes from the scripture.

There are a lot of things that the Bible calls abomination, Jay. And I don't see them react this way as with homosexuals. Clearly, the hate comes from their own hearts, and not the scripture. I have read the Bible, I have studied it and followed it. You don't see me running around trying to torch them. :P

I'm not saying that it's strictly from the scripture that the hate breeds; words have no power without intention behind them. When these people take the words, who's origional intention was to help people find a light in a time of great darkness, and twist it to their own wretched deeds, that is what's wrong with it. I said that it comes from the scripture because it does; it's written right down. However, the hate behind the way they are used is not how the words were written, nor how they should be interpreted.

Double Post, Sorry.

quote:

Most of the hate comes from the scripture.

There are a lot of things that the Bible calls abomination, Jay. And I don't see them react this way as with homosexuals. Clearly, the hate comes from their own hearts, and not the scripture. I have read the Bible, I have studied it and followed it. You don't see me running around trying to torch them. :P

quote:

Don't e-mail Westboro Baptist Church. Don't go on their website, just ignore them. They don't care what you have to say, they've heard it all before. The best thing to do is not give them your time of day. Less people give them attention, the less people they can spread their "message" to.

Yeah, I was thinking that you are probably right. I saw there Q&A section. It made me sick. I'd rather not get one of their idiotic responses.

quote:

was it godhatesfags.com, the Westboro Baptist Church?

quote:

Yes.

Don't e-mail Westboro Baptist Church. Don't go on their website, just ignore them. They don't care what you have to say, they've heard it all before. The best thing to do is not give them your time of day. Less people give them attention, the less people they can spread their "message" to.

Jay. Did you even read my post? It wasn't for you, but you would be better off reading it. I said something specific to Leviticus.

quote:

Originally posted by YouthVoice:

quote:

was it godhatesfags.com, the Westboro Baptist Church?

Yes.

Though my comments weren't solely directed at that, it was because I've seen too many people on the boards who are homophobic but who try to hide their hate behind the scripture.

Most of the hate comes from the scripture. They are right in the fact that they say that (in the KJV of the bible) it says "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is an abomination." However, the bible is like the telephone game, always skewed when it returns. That is why I usually refuse to use the scriptures in my arguements, because if you and I were to argue it, we could be up all night discussing semantics.

See my discussion, OK, about the "sanctety of marriage" in the bible

quote:

was it godhatesfags.com, the Westboro Baptist Church?

Yes.

Though my comments weren't solely directed at that, it was because I've seen too many people on the boards who are homophobic but who try to hide their hate behind the scripture.

quote:

Originally posted by YouthVoice:
Today I came across the most homophobic website I have ever seen and it was suppose to be a "Christian" website. It was full of insults and attempts to degrade homosexuals in every way possible, but attempting to justify it with the Bible. It got me thinking.

Why do people try to justify their homophobia with Biblical scripture? Why do they pretend to preach "love" when all that is in their hearts is deep hatred? Why do people condemn, damn, and judge others when they say that only God can do that according to their religion? Is your God not powerful or justifiable enough that you have to come in and do the job for Him?

So you say homosexuality is a sin? Here is a verse that applies to you.

Jesus said: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..." John 8:7

Remember that one, and apply it to your life.

(This was directed at all who claim to follow Jesus and His Word)

was it godhatesfags.com, the Westboro Baptist Church?

quote:

You should email that to them. They have an email right? I saw that website a few years ago, and at first I thought like laughing, it was so dumb, but it just made me sick after a while.

It disgusted me.

I might email it to them, that's a good idea.

You should email that to them. They have an email right? I saw that website a few years ago, and at first I thought like laughing, it was so dumb, but it just made me sick after a while.

EDIT: Ah, this is what I was looking for with my first post. From a different article:

quote:

Arsenokoitai, is not found in any extant Greek writings until the second century when it apparently means “pederast,” a corrupter of boys, and the sixth century when it is used for husbands practicing anal intercourse with their wives. Again, if Paul meant people practicing same-gender sex, why didn’t he use one of the common words? Some scholars think probably the second century use might come closest to Paul’s intention. If so, there is no justification for translating the word as “homosexuals.” Other scholars see a connection with Greek words used to refer to same-gender sex in Leviticus. My discussion above shows why the Leviticus references have no relevance to homosexuality today.

Anyone who knows anything about Greek can feel free to correct me, but that seems pretty straight forward to me..

Today I came across the most homophobic website I have ever seen and it was suppose to be a "Christian" website. It was full of insults and attempts to degrade homosexuals in every way possible, but attempting to justify it with the Bible. It got me thinking.

Why do people try to justify their homophobia with Biblical scripture? Why do they pretend to preach "love" when all that is in their hearts is deep hatred? Why do people condemn, damn, and judge others when they say that only God can do that according to their religion? Is your God not powerful or justifiable enough that you have to come in and do the job for Him?

So you say homosexuality is a sin? Here is a verse that applies to you.

Jesus said: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..." John 8:7

Remember that one, and apply it to your life.

(This was directed at all who claim to follow Jesus and His Word)

quote:

1st Corinthians 6:9-10

For those who would like to know, this is what 1 Cor 6:9-10 (NIV) says:

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Plunging in...

In other versions, homosexual offenders translates to: abusers of themselves with mankind (KJV), sodomites (NKJ, and a few others), and also homosexual offenders. It seems no one really knows what word should go there. Damn, and I thought the bible was right in all translations? These are three different, and distinct things. It gets even worse when you look at the different translations of "male prostitutes" which translates to homosexuals in the NKJ, but to "effeminate" in the KJV. These two things that people can't seem to decide on stem from the inability to define the words they originate from. Imagine that. More translation problems. I have the words right here.

Male prostitutes originated as malakos. Anyone here knowledgable in Greek? I'm not, but I have here part of a small essay on the word:

quote:

The term malakoi, as an adjective, literally means “soft.” In Matthew 11:8 it has been used as an adjective in reference to clothing. In this text, however, it is used as a noun and its meaning is debated...The Jerusalem Bible even translates the term malakos as catamites, those young soft prepubescent “pet” boys..

Hardly homosexuality.

Homosexual offenders was originally a longer [more complicated] word: arsenokoiati. To save myself the trouble, I'm going to quote more of this article:

quote:

Does our understanding of arsenokoitai as revealed in 1 Timothy 1:10 as "men who sleep with male-prostitutes” make sense next to this word malakos which is translated by both NIV and RSV as male prostitutes?...Does our understanding of arsenokoitai as revealed in 1 Timothy 1:10 as "men who sleep with male-prostitutes” make sense next to this word malakos which is translated by both NIV and RSV as male prostitutes?

Could these verses be about prostitution, instead of homosexual love? Gasp.

As for the Leviticus passages, I shouldn't even touch those, but for your sanity, I will. First, a peaceful explanation of why you shouldn't follow the Levitical Laws. These were steps to go to heaven. Heaven by works. Oooo. So I wonder why no one follows them anymore? Forgive me for not quoting Scripture here, but we all should know this. Jesus came as the sacrifice. He came willing and unblemished to save us from our sins. He came so we wouldn't have to work up to perfection, so we could come as we are.

If you judge others based on the verses found within the Levitical Laws, and 1: do not demand the following of all of the laws, and 2: do not follow them yourself, are guilty of trying to Judge, where it is only the place of one Being: God, you are no better than those you are trying to condemn. In the end, we ALL fall short of Perfection. We all fall short of what God wants us to be. If we're judged based on how we compare to others, some of us are doing pretty good, eh? I'm sure you think you'd be better than many a homosexual. Maybe me, a gay Christian. (gasp) But we're not being judged based on what others do. We will all stand before God, alone, and be judged on perfection, your thoughts, your actions, your feelings, your instincts, your spirit, soul and body will all be judged, not based on the homosexuals or pedofiles, or sodomites, or liars, or murderers, or rapits, or whatever you think is worse than you. That is their judgement. Yours is what you should worry about.

And I shall use one last verse from the bible to close this peacefully.

Romans 8: 1-2

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

Thank you.

quote:

will be the judging these people on judgement day, God will

O.K, I get it, God will condemn those he feels are unworthy. Now will you just stop condemning people yourself and go and fish out the log from thine own eye. By activly condemning these people you are acting against what Christ and God ordered you to do. God will judge, and if you have walked in your own 'integrity' then he will admit you to heaven.

As a Taoist I find this natural argument a little self-attacking. I mean a large number of mammal species form colonies where homosexual acts occur. I am led to believe that this behavior has been seen for example in Koalas, so the natural argument just doesn't hold up when people claim it is 'against nature'. Similarly Christian religious argument. Christians claim that God made us, and that God made animals. If he made animals that are homosexual, how are we, as animals, excluded from that?

I apologise for ranting, and insulting people, but all this ignorance is angrying up my blood.

quote:

Shade this is just for you...check it out...since you insist it doesnt say that its wrong.
~ 1st Corinthians 6:9-10
~ Leviticus 18:22
~Leviticus 20:13

Two things: 1. What version?
2. Read Leviticus 19. (That is why I, personally, completely throw out all arguments using any of the Leviticus chapters.)

quote:

Originally posted by Shade:

quote:

but as christians, we read the bible, which tells us that same-sex marriage is wrong, and that we are not to do it

It does not! Would you quote your damn sources??

Also, we've told you before. Post once, not twice.

alright, i will....gladly.
Shade this is just for you...check it out...since you insist it doesnt say that its wrong.
~ 1st Corinthians 6:9-10
~ Leviticus 18:22
~Leviticus 20:13

quote:

Originally posted by Jaymeister:
.

But DO YOU KNOW, aside from the bible, that God truly exists? That he will judge the living and the dead? And, no offense meant, please don't give the I just know HE's there, I can feel it" or the "Because I know God is with me" excuse. I give full props to anyone willing to believe in something higher, but what really angers me are people who refuse to critically think that there might be even a smidgen of chance that there might not be a higher power, because despite what we've read and have been taught, WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING[/QUOTE]

i will be honest with you.....i dont know that He's really there, i just have to believe in Him.....and i went through my doubtful years.....and i think about it all the time....i mean about Him not really being there...you are right...we really don't know for sure.