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Picture of whiskeydawg
Registered: April 03, 2006
Posts: 55
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quote:
Originally posted by PrincessMonica12:
I dont care what you say ITS WRONG nomatter what anyone says thats my beleif . I think it should be illeagal for those types of ppl to be married. I also hate it when they get kids I mean its bad enough they go and ruin the world but they have to humiliate their kids. Roll Eyes


hahahahaha
are you serious?
you're horrible
i didn't anyone really THOUGHT like that
that's horrible


i would go off on you
but bex said it PERFECTly in her first post


ha wow...

Bextherex-



Please try not to form opinions until you can justify them. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you can't back up anything you say?

People like you shouldn't be allowed to marry or have children. It's bad enough ruining the world with your hate without passing on your twisted morals to a future generation. You are evil and should be thrown in jail. You disgust me and anyone else with any sense of true morality or respect.

See how you like it.

What gives YOU the right to decide how the rest of the world should live? What have gay people ever done to you? And you can shout all you like but you're not going to change the fact that homosexuality exists and will always exist. You may as well try to get used to the idea.

On the Adam and Eve thing. According to the bible, God created all people, and that includes the gay ones so please try to treat them with a little respect. If you're going to take the Adam and Eve pairing literally, what do you make of the small issue of incest which crops up in the second generation?

Finally, if you care so little for what we have to say why did you bother asking for our views at all?

With all due compassion
Bex roll eyes


being an individual. It's like you have to sift through the darkness to find your place and be that individual you want to be your entire life
Picture of Jenlove
Registered: June 27, 2008
Posts: 52
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Alright well do you really think God would abolish a law that originally required a penalty of death if one disobeyed it? If I know one thing about God, He is unchanging. His feelings for this particular act were very strong at this time I am curious as to why one would think He would just push it aside as if it were nothing. And yes I understand that He pushes for forgiveness instead of harsh punishment these days but that doesn't automatically make the act acceptable.


Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount. -Omar N. Bradley
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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quote:
However, you're forgetting the fall. The moment when Eve indulged in sin and thus began the separation between mankind and God. When she and Adam ate the apple, they suddenly gained an awareness of the fact that they were naked. This is where lust first came into the equation.

Not at all. I speak of love. Not lust.

quote:
If the claims in regards to homosexual acts of the Old Testament writers and Paul are biased, then which of their writings can we actually trust?

Which indeed?

quote:
Why would God allow biased prophets to write His word down knowing that it would contradict His intentions?

You're opening a box you don't want to with that statement. Why would God allow the murder of thousands in his name? Why would God do this or that? We aren't God. We don't know.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of Jenlove
Registered: June 27, 2008
Posts: 52
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Of course God is not going to love us based on our gender, race, etc. He obviously originally planned for us just to love and not have to worry about problems with lust and sex. However, you're forgetting the fall. The moment when Eve indulged in sin and thus began the separation between mankind and God. When she and Adam ate the apple, they suddenly gained an awareness of the fact that they were naked. This is where lust first came into the equation. So, why does gender matter? Because we know what gender is. God now had to set boundaries so we can know what He expects of us when it comes to sex. We can't compare ourselves to angels, nor can we treat this earth life like the spirit world. Because the fact is, we are flesh and blood humans capable of sin.

If the claims in regards to homosexual acts of the Old Testament writers and Paul are biased, then which of their writings can we actually trust? Who would get to decide that anyway? The prophets of both the Old and the New Testaments continually say that their writings are the Infallible Word of God. Why would God allow biased prophets to write His word down knowing that it would contradict His intentions?


Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount. -Omar N. Bradley
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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I do believe myself, that sex [as differences between male and female] and gender do not matter to God as much as humanity thinks they do. The very first creations he made were semi-incorporeal spiritual beings genderless, and in a wide array of forms and manifestations: angels. And doesn't the Bible say itself that when humans die, they will be as the angels in the sense that they are genderless, or formless? If that is the case, why then, would one's physical sex matter so much to a God who loves their soul not their physical flaws or perfections?

Imagine then, biases such as the apostle Paul's existed in the times of Leviticus and Exodus, written down by the scribe's own hand, such as Paul's self-professed bias in his personal letters.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of Jenlove
Registered: June 27, 2008
Posts: 52
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I did not mean to suggest that homosexuals love the same sex just because it feels right. I understand that there are at least some homosexuals who are born into what they are. I have a couple, mutual friends who are homosexual and I also have a homosexual cousin. They definitely do not choose their orientation. What I was meaning to say was, just because people can't help themselves or can't change the way they are, it shouldn't always give them the pass to pursue what they want. Homosexual love isn't mentioned in the Bible, but if you're emotionally attracted to someone wouldn't you at least want to touch them? And besides the homosexual verses in the Bible, do any of the verses pertaining to marriage in any way indicate that God supports homosexual unions? I know some people like to say that God did not mention them just because homosexuality was not as open as it is today but those people are really underestimating God. If God can prophesize about the future and the end of this world, wouldn't He mention somewhere something like "there's going to be a time where you are going to have to accept homosexuals as married couples." The issue on homosexuality is a pretty large one so I don't think that God would leave that out. His intentions seem to be a lot clearer than a lot of people think.


Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount. -Omar N. Bradley
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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Jen, I don't think that homosexuals are that way because it "feels" right. Many of them are Christian. Love...true love, goes deeper than the flesh. Not all of them are sex-loving or sodomy-loving. Sex, although an important thing in a relationship, isn't essential. In the end, if you want to believe what today's translations of the Bible say about homosexuality, go ahead and do so, but they only refer to one thing, don't they? They refer to homosexual sex. Relationship, love. They aren't mentioned, and science can only go so far to prove or disprove something before human bias is inserted--on either side. It's an impossible situation...that may become clearer, if we all just use a little understanding and love.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of clpo13
Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6100
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Unfortunately, Jenlove, it's impossible to argue with an statement that can be boiled down to "God said so".

So it seems that, as usual, the debate has run straight into a brick wall. Neither side is going to convince the other to change their position. And with an issue like this, it's near impossible to agree to disagree. On one side, we have "God says homosexuality is bad and therefore gay marriage is bad", and on the other, we have a mix of "I don't care what God thinks" and "God doesn't say that at all". The positions are irreconcilable for obvious reasons.

While it'd be nice if homosexuality could at least be tolerated by everyone (if not accepted), I doubt that will ever happen. No practicing Christian (or member of any religion that abhors homosexuality) is going to allow what they see as sin to occur without a fight, even if it doesn't affect them in any way, just as no practicing Christian (or member of any religion fond of proselytizing to non-believers) is going to allow an atheist to pass by without quoting Scripture at length in an attempt to convert him or her.


The more you know, the less you don't know.
Picture of Jenlove
Registered: June 27, 2008
Posts: 52
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I understand that Church and State are separated, but God is more important to me than anything or anyone else. I will not vote for something that is considered sinful by God's definition just to please the general public. We can't give freedom to all people because we would inevitably have to give freedom to those who want to do bad things. And yes, perhaps not all those who practice homosexuality are bringing "bad things" into this world, however, just because something "feels" right does not mean it is. If you truly know God you know he warned against basing your decisions off of your feelings. He says to base them on truth and truth only. And truth is, He designed marriage to be between a man and a woman.


Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount. -Omar N. Bradley
Picture of Converse67
Registered: October 18, 2006
Posts: 17
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenlove:

Fact #1: Homosexual marriages are short lived.(Higher divorce rate that heterosexual marriages)
Fact #2: Studies show that homosexual "marriage" is hazardous to one's health
Fact #3: Homosexual marriage has the highest rate of domestic violence
Fact #4: Empirical evidence demostrates that homosexuals make poor parents.

There is also another article on this website with statistics that show that homosexuality is more likely a learned behavior rather than something people are born with.

I don't want anyone to think that I am trying to put people down, I am just presenting facts.

Aside from that, I use the Bible to try and show why I would not support homosexual unions because I am a practicing, devout Christian. The Bible is the Word of God therefore it is the law I must strive to live by. If anyone wants to call me a close-minded, religious nut job then go ahead. But I am sticking to God's Word, I can not and will not be moved. It is unhealthy to base your choices on feelings anyway.

quote:
For example, applying the bible this literally is nearly impossible as the bible has many contradictions and ideas not used in today's society


I invite you to actually read the Bible because there are more than several things in there that are highly applicable to "today's society."

Also, I would like it if you could show me where these contradictions are. As far as I am concerned, there are no contradictions in the Bible. And I am not saying that based off of faih either. Have you actually discovered these contradictions for yourself?


You made a good argument, and I appreciate you using articles to support what you were saying.

I believe that you misunderstood me, there are definitly sections of the bible that can be helpful for people, and I am in no way trying to put down your religion. I myself too am a Christian, but I do not believe that gay marriage is wrong.

I would not like to get into an argument concerning the bible as it has been argued about for centuries, and while religion may play various roles in the life of individuals it does not have a place in the government. However, for an example of a contradiction I can give you this one: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, don't resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 38-40). People interpret passages of the bible differently, Jesus Himself found this scripture in the Old Testament to be offensive and He Himself refutes this scripture passage.

Yet, this issue should not be purely religious, it is a human rights issue. Homosexuals deserve the right to marriage. As for the argument for domestic violence, the rates for domestic violence in homosexual relationships are the same (source: http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/gay.shtml).

There is also according to this article there isn't scientific evidence to conclude that homosexual parents are unfit parents.

Living in the 21st century should mean progressing towards freedom for all people, and it is time to allow homosexuals to marry.
Picture of Jenlove
Registered: June 27, 2008
Posts: 52
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These are the sources...the numbers correspond in the article I posted before.:

[1] Weinberg MS, Williams CJ Male homosexuals: their problems & adaptations. NY: Penguin, 1975.
[2] Bell AP, Weinberg MS Homosexualities. NY: Simon & Schuster, 1978.
[3] Spada J. The Spada report. NY: Signet, 1979.
[4] Jay K & Young A The gay report. NY:Summit, 1979.
[5] Blumstein P, Schwartz P American couples. NY: Morrow, 1983.
[6] Hunt AJ et al. Genitourinary Medicine 1990; 66:423- 427.
[7] Orr, K, Morrison K Doing it in the 90s. Univ. Toronto & Laval Universities, 1993.
[8] Kippax S et al. AIDS 1993; 7:257-263.
[9] Osmond DH et al. Amer J Public Health 1994; 84:1933-1937.
[10] Lever J Advocate, Issue 661/662, August, 23, 1994; 15-24.
[11] Deenen AA et al. Archives Sexual Behavior 1994; 23:421-431.
[12] Wockner R Advocate, Issue 726, February 4, 1997; Cameron P, Cameron K, Playfair WL Does homosexual activity shorten life? Psychol Rpts 1998; 83:847-866.
[13] Andersson G, Noack T, Seierstad A, Weedon-Fekjaer H Divorce-risk patterns in same-sex ‘marriage’ in Norway and Sweden. PAA2004 Annual Meeting, Boston 4/13/04.
[14] McKusick L et al. Amer J Public Health 1985; 75:493-496.
[15] Franceschi S et al. Lancet 1989; 1:42.
[16] Dawson JM et al. AIDS 1994; 8:837-841.
[17] Coxon APM et al. AIDS 1993; 7:877-882.
[18] Hoff, CC et al. J Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes 1997; 14:72-78.
[19] Wang J et al. Soc Sci & Med, 1997; 44:469-77.
[20] Stevens, PE Soc Sci & Med, 1994; 39:1565-1578.
[21] Cameron P Domestic violence among homosexual partners. Psychol Rpts 2003; 93:410-416.
[22] Holt S Ending the cycle of domestic violence. Gay & Lesbian Times, 9/26/96, 39.
[23] Sorenson J et al. Amer J Public Health 1996; 86:35-40.
[24] Ellis D Violence & Victims, 1989; 4:235-255.
[25] Gardner R Method of conflict resolution & correlates of physical aggression & victimization in heterosexual, lesbian, & gay male couples. Unpub Doc Dis, U Georgia, 1988.
[26] Waterman CK et al. J Sex Research 1989; 26:118-124.
[27] Lockhart LL et al. J Interpersonal Violence 1994; 9:469-492.
[28] Coleman V Violence in lesbian couples: a between groups comparison. Unpub Doc Dis, CA Sch Prof Psych, LA, 1990.
[29] Merrill G Press release from National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs, October 22, 1996 from San Francisco & various interviews in November 1996 with senior author Merrill, Jerri Lynn Fields in Chicago, & Bea Hanson in New York.
[30] Anti-Lesbian/Gay Violence in 1995. Horizons Community Services. Self published.
[31] Cameron P & Cameron K Homosexual parents. Adolescence 1996; 31:757-776.
[32] Golombok S, Tasker F Do parents influence the sexual orientation of their children? Developmental Psychol 1996; 32:3-11.
[33] Gottlieb AR Sons talk about their gay fathers: life curves. Binghamton, NY: Harrington Park Press, 2003.
[34] Cameron P Homosexual parents: testing common sense. Psychol Rpts 1999; 85:282-322.
[35] Cameron P, Cameron K Homosexual parents: a comparative forensic study of character and harms to children. Psychol Rpts 1998; 82:1155-1191.
[36] Schwartz MF, Masters WH The Masters and Johnson treatment program for dissatisfied homosexual men. Amer J Psychiatry 1984; 141:173-181.
[37] Cameron P Molestations by homosexual foster parents: newspaper accounts vs. official records. Psychol Rpts 2003; 93:793-802.
[38] Cameron P Newspaper accounts of foster-parent molestations: 1980-2003. Psychol Rpts, in press.
[39] Sarantakos S Children in three contexts: family, education and social development. Children Australia 1996; 21:23-31.
[40] Cameron P, Harris DW Homosexual parents in custody disputes: a thousand child-years exposure. Psychol Rpts 2003; 93:1173-1194.
[41] Paul JP Growing up with a gay, lesbian or bisexual parent. Unpub Doc Dis, U Calif Berkeley, 1986.
[42] Madigan N Key West suddenly shy, puts pasties on its party. NY Times, Oct 20, 2004.

And yes I understand there is evidence on all sides of the argument. This makes all of these ideas theoretical and non-conclusive. In my mind it seems like it really depends on the individual as to whether or not they are born with it or if they choose to be that way. Some people may see the lifestyle of others and want to try it out. Others may possibly just be born with that kind of thinking. However, unless God himself walks up to me and tells me that He wants his children to practice homosexuality, I wont support it. I know you are going to want to hate me for that but I am not here to please anyone. I love people, whether they be homosexual or not, but I don't need them to love me back. I just want to do what's right according to God's will.

quote:
Also, if something bothers you, let's just say it bothers you and leave it at that. If you don't like seeing two men kiss in public, that's fine. It just bothers me when people say it's against their religion that bothers me. Especially since no one even knows who wrote the bible.


Actually, historians and bible scholars have a very good idea on who exactly wrote the Bible. There are some discrepencies for some of the books but the Bible as a whole is not as in error as you are implying. And also, Christianity isn't the only religion against homosexual practices.


Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount. -Omar N. Bradley
Picture of hollylfc
Registered: July 03, 2008
Posts: 14
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quote:


@PrincessMonica 12. You think all homosexuals should be put in prison... I think all ignorant and disrespectful people who resolve to bigotry should be placed in prison.

But I guess that is just me.


Don't worry I'm with you on that one.

Also, if something bothers you, let's just say it bothers you and leave it at that. If you don't like seeing two men kiss in public, that's fine. It just bothers me when people say it's against their religion that bothers me. Especially since no one even knows who wrote the bible.
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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1, 2: Homosexuality may be linked to hormones. Not learned. Source

3: I don't deny that there are evil sick people out there, but heterosexuals also rape people, and many "heterosexual" adults have been "approached" by older heterosexuals. I know far more heterosexuals where this is the rule than homosexuals.

4: I am not sure what this is trying to say for you?

5: Well I could argue this with personal experiences. I was raised Baptist, and stayed with the church until I was a teen. I've recently rejoined the faith...I've come from the "best" family situation anyone could ask for, but plenty of heterosexuals come from bad backgrounds as well. People of all kinds come from every background imaginable. It's simply biased to look at only one side of the evidence.

6: Disregarding bisexuality, polysexuality...

7: Ex-Gay is a Myth. Source Source Source


...And what of these claims are from an actual source?


For previous affronts...
On Homosexuals and raising families: Study, Multiple Studies


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of Jenlove
Registered: June 27, 2008
Posts: 52
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Taken from the Family Intstitute Research Website:

Most of us fail to understand why anyone would want to engage in homosexual activity. To the average person, the very idea is either puzzling or repugnant. Indeed, a recent survey (1) indicated that only 14% of men and 10% of women imagined that such behavior could hold any "possibility of enjoyment."

The peculiar nature of homosexual desire has led some people to conclude that this urge must be innate: that a certain number of people are "born that way," that sexual preferences cannot be changed or even ended. What does the best research really indicate? Are homosexual proclivities natural or irresistible?

At least three answers seem possible. The first, the answer of tradition, is as follows: homosexual behavior is a bad habit that people fall into because they are sexually permissive and experimental. This view holds rat homosexuals choose their lifestyle as the result of self-indulgence and an unwillingness to play by society rules. The second position is held by a number of psychoanalysts (e.g., Bieber, Socarides). According to them, homosexual behavior is a mental illness, symptomatic of arrested development. They believe that homosexuals have unnatural or perverse desires as a consequence of poor familial relations in childhood or some other trauma. The third view is "biological" and holds that such desires are genetic or hormonal in origin, and that there is no choice involved and no "childhood trauma" necessary.

Which of these views is most consistent with the facts? Which tells us the most about homosexual behavior and its origins? The answer seems to be that homosexual behavior is learned. The following seven lines of evidence support such a conclusion.

1) No researcher has found provable biological or genitic differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals that weren't caused by their behavior
Occasionally you may read about a scientific study that suggests that homosexuality is an inherited tendency, but such studies have usually been discounted after careful scrutiny or attempts at replication. No one has found a single heredible genetic, hormonal or physical difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals - at least none that is replicable. (9, 12) While the absence of such a discovery doesn't prove at inherited sexual tendencies aren't possible, it suggests that none has been found because none exists.

2) People tend to believe that their sexual desires and behaviors are learned
Two large studies asked homosexual respondents to explain the origins of their desires and behaviors - how they "got that way." The first of these studies was conducted by Kinsey in the 1940s and involved 1700 homosexuals. The second, in 1970, (4) involved 979 homosexuals. Both were conducted prior to the period when the "gay rights" movement started to politicize the issue of homosexual origins. Both reported essentially the same findings: Homosexuals overwhelmingly believed their feelings and behavior were the result of social or environmental influences.

In a 1983 study conducted by the Family Research Institute (5) (FRI) involving a random sample of 147 homosexuals, 35% said their sexual desires were hereditary. Interestingly, almost 80% of the 3,400 heterosexuals in the same study said that their preferences and behavior were learned (see Table 1 below).

Table 1
Reasons For Preferring:
homosexuality (1940s and 1970)

early homosexual experience(s) with adults and/or peers - 22%
homosexual friends/ around homosexuals a lot - 16%
poor relationship with mother - 15%
unusual development (was a sissy, artistic, couldn't get along with own sex, tom-boy, et cetera) - 15%
poor relationship with father - 14%
heterosexual partners unavailable - 12%
social ineptitude - 9%
born that way - 9%
heterosexuality (1983)

I was around heterosexuals a lot - 39%
society teaches heterosexuality and I responded - 34%
born that way - 22%
my parents, marriage was so good I wanted to have what they had - 21%
I tried it and liked it - 12%
childhood heterosexual experiences with peers it was the ''in thing" in my crowd - 9%
I was seduced by a heterosexual adult - 5%
While these results aren't conclusive, they tell something about the very recent tendency to believe that homosexual behavior is inherited or biologic. From the 1930s (when Kinsey started collecting data) to the early 1970s, before a "politically correct" answer emerged, only about 10% of homosexuals claimed they were "born that way." Heterosexuals apparently continue to believe that their behavior is primarily a result of social conditioning.

3) Older homosexuals often approach the young
There is evidence that homosexuality, like drug use is "handed down" from older individuals. The first homosexual encounter is usually initiated by an older person. In separate studies 60%, (6) 64%, (3) and 61% (10) of the respondents claimed that their first partner was someone older who initiated the sexual experience.

How this happens is suggested by a nationwide random study from Britain: (17) 35% of boys and 9% of girl said they were approached for sex by adult homosexuals. Whether for attention, curiosity, or by force, 2% of the boys and 1% of the girls succumbed. In the US, (1) 37% of males and 9% of females reported having been approached for homosexual sex (65% of those doing the inviting were older). Likewise, a study of over 400 London teenagers reported that "for the boys, their first homosexual experience was very likely with someone older: half the boys' first partner were 20 or older; for girls it was 43 percent." (13) A quarter of homosexuals have admitted to sex with children and underaged teens, (6,5,8) suggesting the homosexuality is introduced to youngsters the same way other behaviors are learned - by experience.

4) Early homosexual experiences influence adult patterns of behavior
In the 1980s, scholars (12) examined the early Kinsey data to determine whether or not childhood sexual experiences predicted adult behavior. The results were significant: Homosexual experience in the early year, particularly if it was one's first sexual experience - was a strong predictor of adult homosexual behavior, both for males and females. A similar pattern appeared in the 1970 Kinsey Institute (4) study: there was a strong relationship between those whose first experience was homosexual and those who practiced homosexuality in later life. In the FRI study (5) two-thirds of the boys whose first experience was homosexual engaged in homosexual behavior as adults; 95% of those whose first experience was heterosexual were likewise heterosexual in their adult behavior. A similarly progressive pattern of sexual behavior was reported for females.

It is remarkable that the three largest empirical studies of the question showed essentially the same pattern. A child's first sexual experiences were strongly associated with his or her adult behavior.

5) Sexual conduct is influenced by cultural factors - especially religious convictions
Kinsey reported "less homosexual activity among devout groups whether they be Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish, and more homosexual activity among religiously less active groups." (2) The 1983 FRI study found those raised in irreligious homes to be over 4 times more likely to become homosexual than those from devout homes. These studies suggest that when people believe strongly that homosexual behavior is immoral, they are significantly less apt to be involved in such activity.

Recently, because of the AIDS epidemic, it has been discovered that, relative to white males, twice as many black males are homosexual (14) and 4 times as many are bisexual. Perhaps it is related to the fact that 62% of black versus 17% of white children are being raised in fatherless homes. But even the worst racist wouldn't suggest that it is due to genetic predisposition.

Were homosexual impulses truly inherited, we should be unable to find differences in homosexual practice due to religious upbringing or racial sub-culture.

6) Many change their sexual preferences
In a large random sample (5) 88% of women currently claiming lesbian attraction and 73% of men claiming to currently enjoy homosexual sex, said that they had been sexually aroused by the opposite sex,

85% of these "lesbians" and 54% of these "homosexuals" reported sexual relations with someone of the opposite sex in adulthood,
67% of lesbians and 54% of homosexuals reported current sexual attraction to the opposite sex, and
82% of lesbians and 66% of homosexuals reported having been in love with a member of the opposite sex.
Homosexuals experiment. They feel some normal impulses. Most have been sexually aroused by, had sexual relations with, and even fallen in love with someone of the opposite sex.

Nationwide random samples (11) of 904 men were asked about their sex lives since age 21, and more specifically, in the last year. As the figure reveals, 1.3% reported sex with men in the past year and 5.2% at some time in adulthood. Less than 1% of men had only had sex with men during their lives. And 6 of every 7 who had had sex with men, also reported sex with women.

It's a much different story with inherited characteristics. Race and gender are not optional lifestyles. They remain immutable. The switching and experimentation demonstrated in these two studies identifies homosexuality as a preference, not an inevitability.



7) There are many ex-homosexuals
Many engage in one or two homosexual experiences and never do it again–a pattern reported for a third of the males with homosexual experience in one study. (1) And then there are ex-homosexuals - those who have continued in homosexual liaisons for a number of years and then chose to change not only their habits, but also the object of their desire. Sometimes this alteration occurs as the result of psychotherapy; (10) in others it is prompted by a religious or spiritual conversion. (18) Similar to the kinds of "cures" achieved by drug addicts and alcoholics, these treatments do not always remove homosexual desire or temptation. Whatever the mechanism, in a 1984 study (5) almost 2% of heterosexuals reported that at one time they considered themselves to be homosexual. It is clear that a substantial number of people are reconsidering their sexual preferences at any given time.

What causes homosexual desire?
If homosexual impulses are not inherited, what kinds of influences do cause strong homosexual desires? No one answer is acceptable to all researchers in the field. Important factors, however, seem to fall into four categories. As with so many other odd sexual proclivities, males appear especially susceptible:

1. Homosexual experience:
any homosexual experience in childhood, especially if it is a first sexual experience or with an adult
any homosexual contact with an adult, particularly with a relative or authority figure (in a random survey, 5% of adult homosexuals vs 0.8% of heterosexuals reported childhood sexual involvements with elementary or secondary school teachers (5).
2. Family abnormality, including the following:
a dominant, possessive, or rejecting mother
an absent, distant, or rejecting father
a parent with homosexual proclivities, particularly one who molests a child of the same sex
a sibling with homosexual tendencies, particularly one who molests a brother or sister
the lack of a religious home environment
divorce, which often leads to sexual problems for both the children and the adults
parents who model unconventional sex roles
condoning homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle– welcoming homosexuals (e.g., co-workers, friends) into the family circle
3. Unusual sexual experience, particularly in early childhood:
precocious or excessive masturbation
exposure to pornography in childhood
depersonalized sex (e.g., group sex, sex with animals)
or girls, sexual interaction with adult males
4. Cultural influences:
a visible and socially approved homosexual sub-culture that invites curiosity and encourages exploration
pro-homosexual sex education
openly homosexual authority figures, such as teachers (4% of Kinsey's and 4% of FRI's gays reported that their first homosexual experience was with a teacher)
societal and legal toleration of homosexual acts
depictions of homosexuality as normal and/or desirable behavior
Can homosexuality be changed?
Certainly. As noted above, many people have turned away from homosexuality - almost as many people call themselves "gay."

Clearly the easier problem to eliminate is homosexual behavior. Just as many heterosexuals control their desires to engage in premarital or extramarital sex, so some with homosexual desires discipline themselves to abstain from homosexual contact.

One thing seems to stand out: Associations are all-important. Anyone who wants to abstain from homosexual behavior should avoid the company of practicing homosexuals. There are organizations including "ex-gay ministries, " (18) designed to help those who wish to reform their conduct. Psychotherapy claims about a 30% cure rate, and religious commitment seems to be the most helpful factor in avoiding homosexual habits.


Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount. -Omar N. Bradley
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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Excuse Me? Where are your facts to back this up? Hazardous to your health? I'll have you know I wouldn't be here if I didn't have my person to help me. Highest rate of domestic violence? No. Domestic violence comes from drunk husbands and child molesters who shouldn't see the light of day. Homosexuals are just normal people capable or incapable as anyone to raise a family or love a spouse. And where is this "empirical evidence" against parenting? When have homosexuals been allowed to parent if it hadn't been from a previous marriage? Back your words up before you piss someone off more. Namely, me. Or, provide a website that works.

Elaborate on the "learned behaviour" please? I'd really like to hear it.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Picture of Jenlove
Registered: June 27, 2008
Posts: 52
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I found some interesting statistics that you all should consider looking at. You can read these statistics for yourself at Family Research

Fact #1: Homosexual marriages are short lived.(Higher divorce rate that heterosexual marriages)
Fact #2: Studies show that homosexual "marriage" is hazardous to one's health
Fact #3: Homosexual marriage has the highest rate of domestic violence
Fact #4: Empirical evidence demostrates that homosexuals make poor parents.

There is also another article on this website with statistics that show that homosexuality is more likely a learned behavior rather than something people are born with.

I don't want anyone to think that I am trying to put people down, I am just presenting facts.

Aside from that, I use the Bible to try and show why I would not support homosexual unions because I am a practicing, devout Christian. The Bible is the Word of God therefore it is the law I must strive to live by. If anyone wants to call me a close-minded, religious nut job then go ahead. But I am sticking to God's Word, I can not and will not be moved. It is unhealthy to base your choices on feelings anyway.

quote:
For example, applying the bible this literally is nearly impossible as the bible has many contradictions and ideas not used in today's society


I invite you to actually read the Bible because there are more than several things in there that are highly applicable to "today's society."
Also, I would like it if you could show me where these contradictions are. As far as I am concerned, there are no contradictions in the Bible. And I am not saying that based off of faih either. Have you actually discovered these contradictions for yourself?


Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount. -Omar N. Bradley
Picture of Converse67
Registered: October 18, 2006
Posts: 17
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Using the bible as an argument for homosexuality (such as the not Adam and Steve) argument has its downfalls. For example, applying the bible this literally is nearly impossible as the bible has many contradictions and ideas not used in today's society. Leviticus for example argues about the presence of mildew in clothing.

But most of the issue is that homosexuals should be granted all the rights of people who are heterosexual, there is also increasing scientific argument that homosexuality is not a choice and is how a person is born (like someone being born with brown hair).

There are many differences of opinions on this issue, but equality is something that should be strived for, for all people.
Picture of giantredlobster
Registered: October 24, 2007
Posts: 1
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quote:
thus its not gay people its the act of anal sex


My fundamental problem with arguments like this is when people resolve homosexual behavior with anal sex. Does it ever occur to you that homosexual relationships are not purely physical? All relationships share many of the same dynamics whether they are homosexual or heterosexual or anything for that matter.

@PrincessMonica 12. You think all homosexuals should be put in prison... I think all ignorant and disrespectful people who resolve to bigotry should be placed in prison.

But I guess that is just me.
Picture of hollylfc
Registered: July 03, 2008
Posts: 14
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not liking gay is kind of like not liking someone with a mental or physical disability. Being gay has something to do with the amount of hormones in your body, it's not a choice. And I'm sure if any of you saw someone in wheelchair your first thought wouldn't be, "You're going to hell."
Religion is taken way too seriously and some of you need to relax.
Picture of Shade
Registered: December 27, 2006
Posts: 3981
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quote:
I think we can know what God's personal feelings are about the "matter" because the act homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament, and not as a positive thing.

Mentioned by an author who was notorious for putting his personal opinions into his letters...self admittedly.


...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
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