well i so agree with you sweet pie ive been through soo much on this topic pepole do not choose to be this way some pepole do noyt know the heartbreak we go through and agony tears we shead just beacuse thier is no exceptance in the world i know what the bible says but this world is full of sin and there is nothing you can do about it but guide and there are always going to be pepole wjo are going to misunderstand and pepole who are willng to understabd

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The Greek scriptures are the only true Christian scriptures. Christians supposedly follow Jesus the Christ who only spoke in any way shape or form (aside from in Revelations) in the bible in the four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John). Jesus preached about a LOT of things pertaining to everyday Jewish life & not once (believe me I checked) did he openly say anything about homosexuality & lesbianism. So it is incorrect to say that he was against it.

Not to offend you honey, but the Old Testament belongs to the Christian faith as well. One way to understand this is to consider all the prophecies in the Old Testament pertaining to the birth, life, and death of Christ. The two Testaments are both considered by [real] Christians to be the true Word of God. That is why the Bible contains both Testaments.

And Jesus may not have openly said anything about homosexuality, but he did talk about marriage. Never did Jesus mention that Men should marry other Men or that Women should marry other Women. The definition of marriage to Jesus was a convenant with God between a Man and a Woman. Marriage is a promise to remain with your spouse until "death do you part."

If Jesus supported homosexuality it would have been said "loud and clear" in the Bible. The fact remains that it has not been supported at all.

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I have already mentioned Romans. See previous post.

The Corinthians verses are mistranslated. If you'd like I can source this, but I've said it so many times on yn, it becomes tiring.

The Jude reference doesn't name anything about homosexuality. At all. You said it yourself. The verses refer to fallen angels. The "strange" flesh, wasn't that of the opposite sex, but that of another being.

I understand that the Roman and Jude verses do not directly refer to all people but the act of homosexuality itself is not considered as a good or moral act.

And when you say the Corinthian verses are mistranslated, are you talking about all versions of the Bible, or in just the King James Version? Because I have a newer version I can quote if you're interested...

Another thing I would like people to consider is that, although the New Testament does not refer to homosexuality over and over like it does theft or murder, that does not mean that the teachings of the Old Testament are suddenly irrelevant.

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I also love this approach that people use. The Bible promotes slavery, and yet...

I was using that statement because some people like to assume things about the Bible that are not true. For example, the early Catholic church of the 1st century changed the Sabbath day to Sunday all because Jesus was ressurected on a Sunday. However it does not say anywhere in the NT to change the date. The Bible reflects God as consistent and unchanging. He would not just change his mind about homosexuality because of people's "feelings." (Because they can't help who they have feelings for). He even warns people not to rely on their feelings, regardless of who they are, as their feelings could lead them to sin. Christianity is not about doing what YOU want to do just because you feel it is right. It's all about sacrificing your life to God so he may bless you and reward you in Heaven.
The Bible may have supported slavery but the Bible does not say that people had to have slaves. And people were supposed to love their slaves as they loved everyone else so you can't say that God wanted his people to treat their slaves like the early Americans did with the Africans, for example. Technically slavery in and of itself was not a bad thing unless the "masters" were treating their slaves with disrespect.

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Clearly the solution is better buttsex education in public schools.

That's what the Internet is for.

To Shade: I wasn't trying to offend anyone with false accusations about John, I was merely making mention of a belief that I had heard since the topic seems to be about homosexuality being biblicly wrong. Also, the only reason I spoke about the bible the way I did was because I was unsure of how knowledgable you are (& it seems that you are more so than I). On a different note I'd just like to point out that it is a belief that the Gnostic scriptures are just as important & authentic as the current version of the bible & many supporters of them claim that the only reason that they are separate from the bible is because of Constantine's court assembly when they supposedly decided what was to be the in bible (no I'm not just quoting The DaVinci Code here, these beliefs do exist).


To everyone else: As I've mentioned in past posts the bible is essentially separated into 2 parts the Hebrew scriptures & the Greek scriptures. To those of you who don't know, the Hebrew scriptures (atleast most of them) are called the Torrah by the Jewish people. That is & has been their "book of the law" since way back in the day. The Greek scriptures are the only true Christian scriptures. Christians supposedly follow Jesus the Christ who only spoke in any way shape or form (aside from in Revelations) in the bible in the four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John). Jesus preached about a LOT of things pertaining to everyday Jewish life & not once (believe me I checked) did he openly say anything about homosexuality & lesbianism. So it is incorrect to say that he was against it. Even if you still want to believe that he was remember please that the main things he taught were peace & love. It is not showing peace or love to say that these types of people are wrong or any of the other negative things that have been claimed on this board. It also is not right or showing peace & love to sentence someone to damnation in hell when you have no right to say such things according to the bible itself ("Judge not others lest you yourself be judged"?). Jesus himself said to "Extract first the rafter from your own eye before you extract the straw from your brother's eye".

I have already mentioned Romans. See previous post.

The Corinthians verses are mistranslated. If you'd like I can source this, but I've said it so many times on yn, it becomes tiring.

The Jude reference doesn't name anything about homosexuality. At all. You said it yourself. The verses refer to fallen angels. The "strange" flesh, wasn't that of the opposite sex, but that of another being.

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Even if people still believe that the Bible does not say homosexuality is wrong, could you show me where it says it is right?

I also love this approach that people use. The Bible promotes slavery, and yet...

Double post because I'm past the edit deadline.

Looking at the report itself, practicing safe sex should significantly reduce if not eliminate the diseases mentioned and proper lubrication takes care of the physical trauma:

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"Consensual penile-anal intercourse can be performed safely provided there is adequate lubrication. Few anorectal problems and no evidence of anal-sphincter dysfunction are found in heterosexual women who have anal-receptive intercourse.

The problem isn't buttsex, it's people who aren't very good at buttsex. Clearly the solution is better buttsex education in public schools.

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Originally posted by Jenlove:
Dr. James W. Holsinger, nominated by the President to become the Surgeon's General, was denied the position all because he wrote a report back in 1991 about how male homosexuality could be dangerous to a male's health. Here is the actualy report if you are curious: Holsinger's report...
What he wrote about is true regardless of what people may think or want to think.

A report so good that its own author distanced himself from it:

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Under pointed questioning on Thursday, Dr. Holsinger said the 1991 paper did not represent his current views, was not intended to be published and was not “an example of my scientific work.”

The New York Times

First off let me just say that I am in fact a Christian. It actually took me a while to get to this point because I have a lot of sympathy for homosexuals in today's modern world. I understand that it is NOT a choice, that basically it is "programmed" in a person's mind as to whether they are going to prefer male or female.

However I first had to look at it in a biological perspective. Everyone knows that in order to reproduce it takes members of the opposite sex to do so. We were not created, or formed as other people believe, to perform sexual acts with humans of the same sex. Now that is just the physical notion of it. Dr. James W. Holsinger, nominated by the President to become the Surgeon's General, was denied the position all because he wrote a report back in 1991 about how male homosexuality could be dangerous to a male's health. Here is the actualy report if you are curious: Holsinger's report...
What he wrote about is true regardless of what people may think or want to think. However I do know that the report does not mention anything about female homosexuality. I am just sharing what I know.

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The Christian faith condemns homosexuality? Care to show me where?

Shade, here are some biblical verses for you to consider from the Kings James Version New Testament :

Romans 1:25-27:
"25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one towards another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Corinthians 6:9-10:
"9 Know ye that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

-In verse 9, Paul identifies three kinds of sexual immoral persons: adulterers, male prostitutes, and males who practice homosexuality. "Effeminate"- having female-like qualities.

Jude 1:7-8:
"7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities."

-These verses are referring to the Fallen angels. The sins of Sodom clearly, as writtin in Genesis, reflected that of homosexuality. Although these verses may not be saying that the angels are practicing homosexualality, they are by no means justifying that homosexuality is a good thing. They are actually re-stating from the OT that those who practice homosexuality are going to be punished.

Even if people still believe that the Bible does not say homosexuality is wrong, could you show me where it says it is right? Any real Christian or someone who has actually studied the relgion would know that God only intended sex for marriage, and that sex was meant for pleasure AND reproduction. There were no exceptions or alterations to that. And God never said to base your marriage off just the fact that you are "in love" with someone.

But the Bible NEVER states to hate someone for committing ANY sin. This whole "shun the homosexual" thing is completely wrong and goes against Christ's teachings.

The Bible itself warns the reader against Gnostics. Why would you believe those "gospels" in accordance with the Bible?

And the rest of what you say is just trying to see something that isn't there. None of it is or sounds scholarly at all. Give me a source for a Bible scholar who approves this idea, and then maybe we'll talk.

Put in prison just because a woman might not like a man or a man to a woman? Yea, I agree God made Adam and Eve but he also didnt tell human kind who we should fall in love with or not.

None that I can quote at the moment mainly because I don't know the names of the people who said it, but I can tell you that the idea was brought up in a few discussions involving the authenticity of the existing gospels & comparing them to the Gnostic gospels (i.e. of Judas, Mary, Phillip, & several others that knew Jesus). I can also tell you the reason for the belief. In several parts in the four known gospels (mainly in the gospel of John itself) it claims that John was one of those closest to Jesus. Also in "The Last Supper" by Leonardo DaVinci it is believed that the more feminine looking figure sitting very close to Jesus is either John or Mary Magdeline. Another supporter of the idea made a comment about "hints of jealosy" in some of the scriptures from John.

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They can't tell you where, hence the argument. In the Hebrew scriptures (a.k.a. Old Testament) there are "references" that point to a Jewish (not Christian) belief against homosexuality as well as bestiality (all the fun stuff Big Grin lol).

That reference--in Leviticus I believe you're quoting?--is flawed for two reasons (and for clarification, I am currently backing up what you said...). For one, it refers to priests, not the common man, and in specifically the act in a sacred place like a temple. In my opinion, this contrasts the common pagan practice of sex worship and orgies. That brings me to another point. Those versus in Romans refer to a Greek orgy, not homosexuality specifically, just sexual degradation. The second reason is, insisting for everyone to follow the Levitical laws is a ridiculous notion. Not only are they extremely dated, they were mainly meant to be a guideline to salvation through healthy living, and to ask us to follow the most obscure laws in Lev, is hypocritical, as most (and I am willing to say all) Christians don't follow all of the Levitical laws themselves, which is part of the deal. You can't pick and choose.

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Oh, & on a side note, it is believed that John (the apostle not the Beatle Big Grin lol) was himself a reluctant homosexual that had said romantic feelings towards Jesus.

Do you even have a source for this?

For all those out there who are opposing to homosexuality because of the Christian faith, I encourage you to look deeper.
Why do you oppose it? Have you personally read all scripture that very briefly touches upon the idea of homosexuality, and looked at the context it was to be taken in? Have you considered the time period as a factor in how to take the scriptures?
Please also take into consideration the number of scriptures that can be slightly twisted to make homosexuality seem wrong in comparison to the vast number of scriptures stating clearly that we are to love one another.
I would encourage any person who still is not convinced to look into this movie:
http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/media.htm

it will change your life.

They can't tell you where, hence the argument. In the Hebrew scriptures (a.k.a. Old Testament) there are "references" that point to a Jewish (not Christian) belief against homosexuality as well as bestiality (all the fun stuff lol). In the Greek scriptures (a.k.a. New Testament) you'll find that nowhere in the four gospels does Jesus say anything for or against homosexuality. The only time in the Greek scriptures that there is any sort of "reference" about the subject is when Paul (the apostle not the Beatle lol) made mention about "Men who lie with men". Anyone who has any knowledge about Paul however knows that he was openly against sex period including homosexuality because he felt that any sexual actions would "distract" a servent of god from his work. Oh, & on a side note, it is believed that John (the apostle not the Beatle lol) was himself a reluctant homosexual that had said romantic feelings towards Jesus.

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Being Christian, I wish to guide all homosexuals, however, saying they should go to prison is wrong. They can't help who they like, and being rude isn't going to make anything better. I don't think it should exist, but I'm not going to dislike someone who is, I'm simply going to try and guide them to God, in a kind and loving way.

The Christian faith condemns homosexuality? Care to show me where?

Being Christian, I wish to guide all homosexuals, however, saying they should go to prison is wrong. They can't help who they like, and being rude isn't going to make anything better. I don't think it should exist, but I'm not going to dislike someone who is, I'm simply going to try and guide them to God, in a kind and loving way.

I really should take more time to just see how this whole board has unfolded, but before I get any sleepier, I want to state my opinion.

To me, homophobia makes absolutely zero sense. I can't even imagine being scared of or hating gays or thinking that their lifestyle is wrong. It's just LOVE. And I get really sick of all these religious arguments. I bit of bias may come in here since I am not religious in any sense, I don't believe in a higher power, but I'm willing to admit that no one on this earth TRULY knows if there is or isn't one, as much as they may assert they do through their religion. I personally like to believe that if there IS a God, he wouldn't be so closeminded against creatures HE made. I think he would want people to love whoever they want. And the violence and hatred that is spewed and committed against homosexuals is horribly disturbing, and I think you're more likely to head off to "Hell" for being homophobic than being gay. So many religious groups end up besmirching God because they can't find it in their hearts to realize being gay isn't wrong, it's how they love. People should be able to love who they want without any persecution, and my heart hurts and I cry when I hear of anyone in the LGBT community being abused in any way. Leave them be, they're generally nicer people than heterosexuals, since they can understand how good it feels to be accepted.

Now, don't go off on me for thinking all Christians or various other religious people hate gays, I know they don't, I'm making a hasty generalisation that I'm taking responsibility for. I just know, personally and in my life, that almost all the religious people I happen to know are opposed to and even hate homosexuals.

Lesbians, gays, bi's, transexuals - they're all people too, they deserve the same rights and respect as anyone else.

I don't think homosexuality wrong. That implies that it is harmful, and I don't understand how it could be. It's really not that different from heterosexuality.

it was happening in the medivial times, except it was called romantic friend ship. and i thought it was adam and steve. not adam and adam. and madam and eve. people, you love who you love. i didn't choose to like girls. their just so... mmmmm. hee hee hee, joking. no, it's who i like, i can't control it. i went through stages of who i liked. first i was straight, then i was bi, then i was lesbian, but, i know who i like, and the people who are gay, know who they like, so i think that people should lay off of them.