If someone murdered a person I love I'd want to kill them, make them suffer. Does that mean I have the right to or I am right to do so? No. Like Blue said, I'd be acting irrationally. Humans are supposed to be rational beings, we can't just act out of our emotions, much less decide over the life of another person out of our anger and pain.

I know you don't, blue, but you'd be surprised at the amount of people who are against the death penalty because it's "so much more expensive."

It's retribution for the victim's families; it's social justice for society.

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Which is why you take amp's advice and make the death penalty much less expensive than life in prison. Pro-death penalty advocates usually don't realize that if they just make executions cheaper, the people on the financial side of the debate would side with them.

I honestly don't believe that money should have anything to do with the arguement. The cost would not change my mind.

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And I don't think any amount of time, therapy, or supposed rationale could sway me from seeking retribution for a crime committed against someone I love.

Oh I agree. But I don't think that revenge should be the reason behind the death penalty.

right a bullet is about 50 cents so in the end why waste time with expensive excecutions like say lethal injection or we can do what Doc suggested and hang'em that's really cheap because rope is reusable

Which is why you take amp's advice and make the death penalty much less expensive than life in prison. Pro-death penalty advocates usually don't realize that if they just make executions cheaper, the people on the financial side of the debate would side with them.

And I don't think any amount of time, therapy, or supposed rationale could sway me from seeking retribution for a crime committed against someone I love.

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That said, I still support the death penalty. Only because I know that if someone raped and killed my best friend, I would want that man to die. I think that goes for all the families of murder victims.

I agree and think that I would probably feel the same way. However, if I was ever in that position I would be thinking completely irrationally. I would be eager to seek revenge. I don't think it's reasonable to execute someone out of revenge.

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they're used to eliminate people society has rejected because of the heinous crime(s) they have committed.

A life sentence can essentially do the same thing without the execution part.

The death penalty doesn't act as a deterrant. Anyone who says it does is a liar. States such as Texas and the like have a harshly instituted death penalty, and high crime rates. And the UK has no death penalty, and a very low crime rate.

That said, I still support the death penalty. Only because I know that if someone raped and killed my best friend, I would want that man to die. I think that goes for all the families of murder victims.

The world is a violent place, it always has been. And since the beginning of the Middle Ages, we have dealt out death penalties to killers. Stonings, hangings, strangulation, breaking on the wheel, burning at the stake, garotte, axe, guillotine, etc. They have never been used as a deterrant; they're used to eliminate people society has rejected because of the heinous crime(s) they have committed.

Brehon, I think you are right. There is proof that the death penalty does not act as a deterent.

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See, the problem with your position is that you totally disregard society's implied right to punish criminals. Death is a totally acceptable punishment, because in nature there is no right to life, and no right not to be killed by someone or something. Those rights are a product of society.

But isn't society "above" nature? Human society is supposed to be civilized. Our society does not exactly act upon the laws of nature. We help the mentally and physically disabled.

Having looked only at the first board, and found no statistics, I think it is time to introduce some, or at least reintroduce.

Reading the Guardian, I remember some time ago that there was some substantial evidence to prove that the crime rate in the UK was similar to that of the EU countries and the US. This went some way to demonstrating that the death penalty is not an effective means of crime deterent, nor punishment.

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Who wouldn't enjoy doing it? It satisfies our basic human need for vengeance. I consider myself a pretty liberal person, but I'd love to pull the trigger on some asshole rapist.

I am shocked. No. I am shocked!

In the worlds most advanced countries, if morality cannot be upheld, then we live in a more depressing world than I thought.

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See, the problem with your position is that you totally disregard society's implied right to punish criminals. Death is a totally acceptable punishment, because in nature there is no right to life, and no right not to be killed by someone or something. Those rights are a product of society.

Dr Strangelove, your argument rather does a U-turn. At one point you use society's right to punish criminal as a pro-death statement. You then use the same society to explain away the problem of the right to life which you say is a product of that society. Is it then that the production of the right to life from our society is to balance out the morally unjustifiable standpoint of society's right to kil as punishment?

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violation of one's right for the violation of another's right seems almost hypocritical to me... innit?

not really like doc says if you violate another's rights like you murder them you break your contract with society then your right's are null and void we may then dispose of what is not human but an animal rather like a rabid dog, it's not responseable for it's actions but for the safety of others it must die

I think we should keep the death penalty.

BUt more importantly you need to understand that the News is just one persons opinion the real thing could have been entirely different. And also think about the 2 family members that have to witness the death. And of course the rest of the family.

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it's almost revengeful... violation of one's right for the violation of another's right seems almost hypocritical to me... innit?

I see what you're saying, but too look at it this way; those who violate the rights of others whether through, rape, murder,etc. have given up their rights when they committed such hannous crimes. Depending on the severity of the outcome after the crime has been committed, and they are found guilty with the sentence punishable by death; then that is a viable punishment that fits the crime.

They still are innocent until proven guilty, once all the legalities have been stressed to prove if such is the case of innocence or guilt, that's when a punishment that fits the crime should be given. If there is no extraordinary case through evidence or reasonable doubt against the accused then they still maintain their innoncence.

jee... you know this topic has lotsa pros and cons... but if i were to speak on behalf of all the murdered, raped and tortured, yes, with a tinge of the old form of justice, the killer must be killed. but if i were to look at this as a buddhist, which i am, no. the death penalty is against all religious philosophy... it's almost revengeful... violation of one's right for the violation of another's right seems almost hypocritical to me... innit?

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Originally posted by SeeYouIn2069:
Should the United States continue to put to death criminals convicted of capital crimes? Or should we follow the way of Western Europe and eliminate the Death Penalty? This one is usually emotionally charged, so don't make it personal.

what's the point of asking opinions? i say yes, u say no, we keep on living, oui?

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Originally posted by dfresh16:
You say that like you would enjoy doing it. Thanks for fucking up our country! God bless America,for if you don't you don't love freedom AND you'll die. I bet you have that mentality also.

Who wouldn't enjoy doing it? It satisfies our basic human need for vengeance. I consider myself a pretty liberal person, but I'd love to pull the trigger on some asshole rapist.

You want to thank someone for fucking up the country, thank the assholes committing the horrendous crimes that ruin society and force pro/con issues such as this one.

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Originally posted by gladiator123:
I agree with the death penalty whole heartedly, how much is it to house a criminal? Answer: ALOT. Just get it over with. If somebody kills somebody 1st degree: Death. No appeals, and no stupid injection method, an injection is thousands of dollars. Just put a bullet in their head. 10 cents.

You say that like you would enjoy doing it. Thanks for fucking up our country! God bless America,for if you don't you don't love freedom AND you'll die. I bet you have that mentality also.

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If we give people the death penalty because they commited a crime or even killed someone we are no better then them.


So if we lock them up for thier whole life are we no better than a kidnapper who keeps his victim isolated thier whole lives?

See, the problem with your position is that you totally disregard society's implied right to punish criminals. Death is a totally acceptable punishment, because in nature there is no right to life, and no right not to be killed by someone or something. Those rights are a product of society. And when someone chooses to kill or commit some other capital crime, they violate society's pact and forfiet the rights provided.

A murderer violates the rights of his victim. Executing a murder violates no rights, because the murderer has forfieted his own protections when he committed the crime.

Good point

no problem. i saw my argument seemed a little religious and that was not my intent.

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religion belongs nowhere in a successful government.

Thank you for speaking up about that.

Thanks ilovebush.