my friend called me the other night to share with me some facts about israel. since him and i are both jews, and both know jews living in israel, the situation in israel is a huge part of our lives right now.

he had recieved a pamphlet that day from a neutral association. it said the many plusses about life in israel. such as follows:

1.) Israel is the only country in the middle east that treats women completely equally.

2.) Israel is the only country in the middle east that legally accepts lesbians and gays as part of the community without shunning or showing hate upon them.

well actually, there was more but that's all that i can remember right now. (ya i know. that doesn't really help my argument.) but if palestine were to take over israeli land, do you realize these amazing rights would be taken away as well? israeli women would be treated poorly and israeli lesbians and gays wouldn't be treated fairly. i don't think anyone wants to live in a country like that.

What you don't know is much greater than you think .So read carefully what really happened in Camp David in this link
http://fair.org/extra/0207/generous.html

looking carefully in history:
the word "jews" was said in the old ages to mean the inhabitants of the judea or judah in palestine & calling a "jewish" in this time was for regional not relgious aspects.
then after development and spread of it in babelon the name was called for those who went into the religion without any relation to race or nationalism to judah or its inhabitants,including those who became jewish whose their & their ancester 's feet never stepped in the land of palistine.
So jews now can't be called judeans,who don't exist now.

The word "Isreal" itself is an old arabic word ,from two parts that always end with "Eal" or "Ella" whist means the great god to some old arabic tribes,as many words like Ismaeal,Gaebreal.

The word jerusalem,zion are old "Kana'anian" words from the historic scripts ,It's known that the arab kana'an are those who inhabited palestine from thousands of years,& developed its civilization &created these names.

AS regard Qur'an who of course you didn't read it,there are verses talking about "Al-Aqsa mosque & the area surrounding it " in jerusalem or El-Quds.

In 1947 U.N. resolution,It gave the jews (4% of population at that time) 56% of the land,& the palistinians(96% of the population) 44% of the land ,both the jews & the arab rejected it(the arab said it was unfair & the jews wanted to capture the rest)which was done in the 1948 & 1967 war,& occupied half of the palistinian share which became 23% of the land, Believe it or not the palistinian now are struggling now to take this 23% share(west bank& Gaza) including east of jerusalem,but every isreali prime minister refuses saying no to 1967 war boundaries,which aren't recognised by any country except as an occupied land.

And who are massacring civilians the palistinians or the isreali like Sabra & Shatilla, & Qana & Genin ,Do you really live on planet earth?!!.
And "destroying places of worships" Are they the ones who surrounded & shelled the church of initiativity, & destroyed many mosques as well.

The jews priests are the one who said killing the arabs is the way to heaven, God made a mistake by creating the arabs.
and large map in the isreali parliment of their future boundares " from the nile to euphrates".

not to talk about the twisted coverage of the media,
http://www.robincmiller.com/me-fr.htm

Here are a little facts. Fell free to argue them, but it will makes you look like a moron because no one can dispute facts...

Jews first came to the land of Israel as a nation, in the year 1272 BCE, 1800 years before the birth of Islam.

First lets start with some misconceptions.
1 - Jews are foreign people without connection to the land of Isreal.
In the Jewsish Bible, Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times. Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Quran even once.
Every time a Jew prays he faces Jerusalem, Muslims face Mecca.
Jews have maintained a continous presence in Israel since being exilled in 70CE.
2 - Israel is not interested in living peacefully with its neighbors.
In 1947, the Jewish people accepted the UN Partition Plan altough it gave Arabs 85% of the land originally promised by the British. The Arabs rejected the plan.
Israel returened the Sinai Penninsula (2.5 times the size of Israel) for peace with Egypt.
At Camp David in 2000 Israel prime minister Barak offered the Palenstinians...
A Palestinian state comprising 91-97% of the territories.
Military control of Eastern Jerusalem and parts of the Old City.
Reperation of many Palestinian refugees and compensation of those who couldn't return.
3 - The Palestinians will embrace peace if the territories are returned
Arab nations attacked Israel 2 times before there were any occupied territories
The PLO was created in 1964, before there were any occupied territories
40% of the West Bank and 95% of the Gaza strip, compromising 97% of the Palestinian population, is under direct control of the palestinian authrotiy.
"Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherver you meet them, kill them" - Palestinian Authority Television
"If we agree to declare our state over the West Bank and Gaza - our ultimate goal is still the liberation of al historical Palestine from the Joradn river to the Mediterranean sea, even if this means that the conflict will last for another thousand years or for many generations.
4 - Israel is using excessinve force in dealing with harmless Palestinians protestors
On average, less than one palestinian has been injured per riot
Rioters throw molotov cocktails, grenades and fire guns beside throwing rocks.
Israeli soldiers have order not to shot unless they are in direct danger. They are ordered to aim only at the source of the shooting, never randomly.
Suring 'Black September' in the 1970s, 2500 Palestinian rioters were killed by Jordan in 10 days. At the current rate it would take Israel 4 years to reach this number.

What is the only country in the Middle East where Arabs have full democratic represntation, freedom of press and religion? - Israel

People call the Palestinians freedom fighters, like the revolutionaries in America. Here are a few differnces between them...
George Washington did not urge Americans to massacre civilians or deystroy places of worships.
He did not publish textbooks promoting hatred of all Englishmen
He did not depict Great Britian as a facist horror that God wanted to deystroy
He did not produce maps showing a Europe wiped clean of England.

The blowing up of a civilization is - ironically - nothing new to the Christian world.

God instructed - according to a MAJORITY of Old Testament battles - to completely wipe away the pagan, idol-worshipping filth that plagued the Holy Land.

Remember Noah's flood? The civilization at that time, minus Noah's family and many animals, was completely wiped out because God kept telling the people to shape up.

But He also promised never to do it again -- think about it; if God hadn't promised Noah no more floods, do you think we would be having this debate?

So, after praying about what I had originally said, and reading a few articles, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not aligned with "Hitler" or the "Fourth Reich" as some fools have said I was.

And, no, I'm not some blood-thirsty "racist" as others have claimed me to be.

There is no hope whatsoever right now for those young Iraqis to ever see the salvation, love and True peace of Jesus Christ if they're supporting a demonic/pagan dictator like Saddam Hussein.

When a carpool of Iraqi civilians - well, heck, they can be from any country, really - pulls up to a U.S. military checkpoint and is instructed to stop - and doesn't...then I support the use of military force against them.

You people are completely being brainwashed by the politically correct war-talkers; Vietnam can closely parallel this war in many regards, and one of them is the "Rules of Engagement."

Our troops are risking their lives and Coalition lives because they're being pressured day after day after day after day after day on the "don't hurt innocent civilians" mantra.

Sure, just going around shooting innocent kids isn't right either, but it's necessary if the kids are strapped with grenades and AK-47s.

And don't be like Dante and try to talk-up a Muslim "American" who rolled three grenades into a sleeping camp, then waited until the soldiers ran out before shooting them with a machine gun.

The guy is a traitor; and anybody who is against the way our American soldiers are fighting this war - or any war, for that matter, is a traitor.

See, Vietnam was a war that was purposely set up to make the U.S. lose; the Rules of Engagement made matters even worse, and unfortunately, those idiotic people who cussed, ridiculed and blamed our boys back then had children -- and in turn, had those children espouse the same Politically Correct garbage about fighting wars as I'm debating about now.


If you do not have first-hand experience in fighting a war -- I don't, but I'm also not going against our soldiers - shut the hell up.

Bravo, you're calling me a racist, yet you side with the Palestinians, the ones who blow themselves up and who want nothing more than to wipe away all of the Jews?

And I'M RACIST?

You're sick.

And about the U.N. thing -- you're also ridiculous.

Israel -- like the United States of America -- is it's OWN damn country.

It does not need the socialist roundtable of colored diplomats to be able to A) Defend itself, B) Make its laws, C) Carry those laws out, D) Raise up an army, E) Defend its People

I don't know why you people are so gung-ho on a 100 percent socialist founded, socialist bred institution -- we're our OWN independent country.

WE make the decisions, not the U.N.

Israel makes its decisions, not the U.N.

Get that through your head.

And go to Israel right now, join their army, and tell me you would not fire on a 14-year-old Palestinian strapped with razor wire and grenades, armed with an Uzi and screaming out to Allah.

Tell me you wouldn't.

Remember Bravo, those who Bless Israel will be Blessed. Those who curse Israel will be cursed.

Haha...me racist.

If you want to side with the terrorists, Bravo, I can let everyone know about it; maybe that will keep your mouth shut.

you want to know what the isreali army shoud do. O.K. they should:
1- At least implement the U.N security council resolutions & withdraw from the occupied territories,& get the hell out of trouble .

2-Stop building settlements on the occupied lands,for jews comming from Russia & Ethypia &other countries all over the world ,while expelling the native palistinian residents,& demolishing their houses & humilating them on a daily basis.


what yoy say about muslims can't co-exist with others is joke because you don't seem to read history.
When the jews were being opressed in Europe ,they went to islamic & arab coutries & lived peacfully there. not to mention that jews were ministers when muslems ruled "Andalus" which is spain now in the middle ages,when the jews were prosecuted & killed .
Many christians now also are ministers in arab countries as Egypt ,Syria, lebanan.

As regard Jesus(who became a justification for all your racist ideas) will come back (which proves the islamic version that he wasn't killed in the first place but rose to God for a mission later on) to ensure peace in the world & punish those who tried to kill him & kill their leader(Imposture christ).

Any way that is not the issue,the issue is resisting the occupation is not a terrorist act or else George Washington ,charle Degol& churchill were terrorist,but bombing the civilians is ,which regretfully is done by both of them( all according to his capability from stones to fighter jets).

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Jesus preached peace, yes He did. He preached love, yes He did.

But he also said that HE will make WAR with the nations AND the people who come against His people and His nation, which is Israel.

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So Jesus preached love -and- violence?

Jesus is a hypocrite. Lucifer was right...

More fuel on the fire I guess.

Well, this really can't be answered by anyone on YouthNOISE, but just put yourself into a Jewish soldier's shoes, or, go back in time to 1965 to Vietnam.

You see the enemy soldiers and the suicide bombers and so you kill them.

Yet you also see the women and children strapped with weapons and ammunition.

What do you honestly do?

What do you do to a 14-year-old Arab who throws flaming cocktails or rocks at your policemen or residents?

What do you do?

What do you do when enemy soldiers place missle launchers on top of hospitals and schools?

What do you do?

What do you do when waves and waves and waves and waves of men, women and children are raised to be brought up as little hate-filled terrorists?

That, to me, is sick.

You people have absolutely no experience whatsoever in having to deal with a situation like the ones I have described here and in previous posts.

Emperor, what should the Israelite army do? What should they do?

What should the residents do? What should they do?

I'm not saying the Israeli government is perfect and I'm not saying what they do is right.

But you people seem to think that Muslims can also co-exist with Christians and Jews peacefully; you're completely ignorant if you truly believe that.


Call me sick, twisted, extreme, compare me to Hitler ...I don't care.

But like I said, you people have no first-hand experience as being in a situation like that; neither do I, but I can guarantee it wouldn't be an easy one to make.


So get off your soap boxes and come out against the real terrorists instead of someone espousing their views.

Your posts give the impression that you think it's okay for boys/girls/women and men to be raised up like little terrorists.

Jesus preached peace, yes He did. He preached love, yes He did.

But he also said that HE will make WAR with the nations AND the people who come against His people and His nation, which is Israel.


So be prepared.

About your question/comment about Jesus: to answer your q, just skim through earlier days and read the convo b/t me and a couple other ppl about it- I explain how Jesus doesn't condone violence.

ABout the issue on killing children: although I usually agree with certain things JD says, I cannot stand by what he said about killing everyone: (Jesus says) "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 19:14). It's not the kids faults, it's their parents. (Jesus says) "This is my commandment. That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:12-13).
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Romans 12:19). The violence is unfortunate and not right, but it's meant to be.

joey, you're sick. not extreme. you're scary and you're sick.

I see that Joeydauben's replies are as rude, foolish, and inciting as those of DoctorNo. I believe that not only him, but also ANYONE calling for the killing and extermination of peoples should be cleared from this web. But if you consider such gibberish as opinions, then I shall make mine clear. If any terrorist and if any people is to be killed, then it should be those that call for such havoc such as Joeydauben himself. Christ, whose message is peace and love thy neighbour, not kill and take possession; will not come by exterminating the Palestinians nor by expelling them from their land. If there are evil people, it is up to the Lord to deal with them, not to Joey. If peace is to come, then it should be by sharing and coexisting, not by forming obscure and mysterious Protestant organizations inciting and conspiring against humanity such as the one Joey belongs to. You are just making the Cosa Nostra and the Gestapo look like midgets besides your 'religious' beliefs.

And just when we thought Nazism and HitLer were over, Joeydauben suddenly has begun to plan for the establishment of the Fourth Reich in the Middle East based on some ridiculous piece of sublime mysthicism. I just hope people believe in something useful and not deceiving to themselves. Attending to the pains of humanity logically and humanely is worth more than listening to a thousand drunken missionaries preaching for terrorism and looting under the banner of the Bible and Jesus.

The Holy Bible and Jesus are too Holy and Sacred to be corrupted and twisted into this terrorist madness called for by the Antichrist himself, Joeydauben!

I've never seen such a bias from most of you towards any conflict in the world except towards Isreal,as if it's over the law.

Isreal ocuppied the palestinian lands in 1948,1967 and condemned by U.N. security council resolution demanding withdrawl, the isreali's must understand that ther will never expect peace from the palestinians while occuping their land,they will continue to resist them as long as it takes.
The peace process was based on "The land for peace" same done to Egypt 1979,they restored their land in return for peace,and guess what "it worked o.k".

While Who likes the whole mideast minus Israel to be blown away I will say to him just this
"Heil JoeyDauben" you 've made Hitler a baby beside you.
Terrorizing the innocent is not an easy crime ,but if the extremists in the palestinian side do it in the suicidal attacks,the Isreali government is doing it in a daily basis by the most destructive weapons in the world.

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You're either for Jesus Christ or you're against Him.

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Not true, dearest child. I'm not for or against Jesus. He's nothing more than a rotted corpse now. So appealing, I know.

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joey, how can you claim yourself to be christian and yet make comments like "the middle east should be blown away

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Well, according to Jesus Himself, He will wage war against many nations when He returns!

And in case you don't know, which you probably don't [nothing personal], Jesus Christ will destroy this earth to make way for the new one and the new Heaven.

Sure, my views are very uncommon, unpopular and extreme, yet this world is in the latter days.

You're either for Jesus Christ or you're against Him.

But yeah, the thing about war, and blowing things away.

It's going to happen.

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Palestinians are nothing but terrorists...

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Not all of them are. I would advise you not to continue generalizing based on what you hear/see from the media.

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aperently you have never read the old testament

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Actually, the old testament was BEFORE Jesus came. The new testament was after Jesus. But the Bible is all BS anyway, so it doesn't really matter now, eh?

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please explain to me how you can believe Jesus condoned
violence?????

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aperently you have never read the old testament? Read and then get back to me, what you don't know is over the years priests have been rewritting the bible to make it more "PC", no longer do you have the stuff about if a women is not a virgin on the day of her marriage she shall be stoned to death.

Like I said, give it a good read someday....

I am in total support of Isreal!! Because anyone who is willing to strap a bomb on and run into a dance hall or a school bus and kill innocent people should be delt with harshly. Palestinians are nothing but terrorists...

I'm sorry, guys, I have not been paying attention to this whole post board so could someone clarify just what exactly Jesus has to do with the problem of Israel and Palestine? Because you guys are arguing about it and I'm very lost, hehe...

I would also like to say that whoever said the Middle East is ruled by dictators was wrong. I don't know about Palestinians but in Israel we have elections and we vote. The only problem is the majority of Israel's population are fundamentalist Jews because they like to have lots of kids, so right now our prime minister is not one of those peace-seeking men, he is a fighter and he isn't a negotiator. Of course, in the actual government there are people who do want peace so it kind of evens it out...but anyway, here's something I also thought of. You could consider Israel and the rest of the Arab world to be like a disfunctional family, eh? Israel would be the black sheep, you see, the one the rest of the family doesn't like and is ashamed of. But we're all related, really. Israelis, though not as dark, often like the same music and foods as Arabs, and if you want to look into ancient times ((which I don't like to but the rest of you seem to love it)) Israelis were "Hebrews" and they were in Egypt before they came to Israel, so one could say we are Egyptians, therefore my theory of the disfunctional family sort of makes sense.

Anyways I still stand by my ideas that we could all share Israel or split it in two. I think there should be peace not only in the Middle East but in the world. War is pretty pointless, in my opinion, when just talking things out and compromising could get problems solved faster and safer.

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is a literary devise to bring understanding the common people. Jesus did not ever use violence against people (he did destroy the temple, but this did not hurt anyone), because he was a PACIFIST. Do you know what that means? NON-VIOLENCE!!!!

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People who wrote the Bible still thought the world was flat. Everything was to be taken seriously, like the except I posted. I seriously doubt that those biblical peasants understood what a figure of speech was.

And Gandhi was a pacifist, too. Should we all worship him? Get the hell out of the way, Jesus! We have a new prophet to idolize like idiots!

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But if you raise a child to become a terrorist, guess what? They're going to become a terrorist.

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So, since you're a heartless bigot, your parents must have been that way, as well? You all should be killed! Bah hah.

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As far as I'm concerned, the Middle East - minus Israel - should be blown away.

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Actually, the Middle East, in general, is fairly peaceful. Yes, there are certain countries such as Iraq that disseminate horrible views that generalize all Middle Eastern countries, but countries such as Lebanon and Jordan are very peaceful. Israel is a major problem. The Palestinians and Israelis both have rights to the land, but the terrorizing will most likely never cease. Every major religion wants Jerusalem. Just like the Crusades where Christians massared innocent men, women, and children just to get that damn city. It's all BS.

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And watch, when Jesus Christ returns on the Mount of Olives, He will "make war with many nations" who came against His land.

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Wow, holy olives. Gotta love the fairy tales And Jesus is dead.. so a corpse on a bunch of olives.. I can just see the devotion of Christians now.