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is a literary devise to bring understanding the common people. Jesus did not ever use violence against people (he did destroy the temple, but this did not hurt anyone), because he was a PACIFIST. Do you know what that means? NON-VIOLENCE!!!!

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People who wrote the Bible still thought the world was flat. Everything was to be taken seriously, like the except I posted. I seriously doubt that those biblical peasants understood what a figure of speech was.

And Gandhi was a pacifist, too. Should we all worship him? Get the hell out of the way, Jesus! We have a new prophet to idolize like idiots!

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But if you raise a child to become a terrorist, guess what? They're going to become a terrorist.

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So, since you're a heartless bigot, your parents must have been that way, as well? You all should be killed! Bah hah.

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As far as I'm concerned, the Middle East - minus Israel - should be blown away.

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Actually, the Middle East, in general, is fairly peaceful. Yes, there are certain countries such as Iraq that disseminate horrible views that generalize all Middle Eastern countries, but countries such as Lebanon and Jordan are very peaceful. Israel is a major problem. The Palestinians and Israelis both have rights to the land, but the terrorizing will most likely never cease. Every major religion wants Jerusalem. Just like the Crusades where Christians massared innocent men, women, and children just to get that damn city. It's all BS.

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And watch, when Jesus Christ returns on the Mount of Olives, He will "make war with many nations" who came against His land.

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Wow, holy olives. Gotta love the fairy tales And Jesus is dead.. so a corpse on a bunch of olives.. I can just see the devotion of Christians now.

joey, how can you claim yourself to be christian and yet make comments like "the middle east should be blown away" and children should be killed? Do you know how many innocent people live in the middle east? Do you think about what you say before you say it?

It is not the people's fault that middle east is so screwed up. It is arrogant, extreme, dictators who are evil and malicious and don't really care about their people. THESE DICTATORS are the problem NOT the middle east in general.

i wish that you were born in the middle east under evil dictators and then read your posts and read that someone in the US wants you "blown away". You really need to step back and just put yourself in someone else's friekin shoes. You have a real problem with that,

Ah, so now, you're not only racist:

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As far as I'm concerned, the Middle East - minus Israel - should be blown away.

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You're also part of the authoritarian thought police:

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Anyone who raises their children to become terrorists should be killed, too. The children should be killed, too, if that's what they're being turned into.

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Jesus would just love to hear that...

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...But the thing is, Israel is not so evil as some of you make it out to be.

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Exactly.

Not to say everything over there is peachy.

But if you raise a child to become a terrorist, guess what? They're going to become a terrorist.

As far as I'm concerned, the Middle East - minus Israel - should be blown away.


And watch, when Jesus Christ returns on the Mount of Olives, He will "make war with many nations" who came against His land.

Jesus might not have spoken directly about making war, but you can better be sure He will enact revenge on the people AND nations who caused His Bride harm.

If I can get a hold of one, there will be an American flag and a Star of David flag flying outside my house.

I don't believe in giving the Palestinians anything - let them dwell in Lebanon and Syria.

Arafat should be executed, that's for sure, though.

Anyone who raises their children to become terrorists should be killed, too. The children should be killed, too, if that's what they're being turned into.

please explain to me how you can believe Jesus condoned violence????? The quote you refer to:

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Mathew 5:29: "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

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is a literary devise to bring understanding the common people. Jesus did not ever use violence against people (he did destroy the temple, but this did not hurt anyone), because he was a PACIFIST. Do you know what that means? NON-VIOLENCE!!!!

I am from Israel...and you know what? I don't really agree with everything happening right now. If it was up to me I would have both races living together in Israel, or I would split Israel in two and give half to the Palestinians. But to say Israel does not exist would be a lie because obviously that is where I am right now. To say Israel never bombs anyone would also be a lie, because we bombed Iraq 20 years ago to destroy a nuclear weapon we felt threatened by. But the thing is, Israel is not so evil as some of you make it out to be. Sure, us Jews were oppressed. That doesn't mean we think it's okay to oppress Palestinians. We arent "oppressing" them, either. We are just doing what we think is best for our country's safety. Again, I'm not agreeing with some measures Israel's taken, but that's not up to me, it's up to the government, which I might add is mostly Likud Party members and I am not of that party. I am of Merezt/Avoda which are more peace-wanting parties. But every race has fundamentalists, right? So what can you do. I know there are Palestinians out there who want peace just like me, and I don't hate them and I know they don't hate me. What sucks is it is not up to me - but you just wait and see, kids, one day I will be the prime minister and I will make peace. Until then, don't hate Israel and don't worry about what old ancient books tell you, because no land "belongs" to anyone, it is simply land and it should not matter who sets their tent up in what land.

I don't like how some of you are so filled with hatred. With all your opinions and stuff. I don't think it is fair of you to have an opinion and yell it across the internet until you have experienced first hand the very thing which you have an opinion on. Life is not so bad over in Israel, you know. And we are not so evil. Love and compromise are the key to peace.

I think it is truly funny that whenever I post something, the people who have contradictory views always tend to completely disregard my entire post. I will once again reiterate my mesage:
**To sum it all up for those who are not thoroughly informed about Christianity: the Old Testament is seen more as a history, although it does relay teachings. A Christian's basis for belief and morality is FROM JESUS CHRIST. The purpose of the NEW Testament (ie contract) is to replace the OLD Testament, which was the original agreement between God and His people (which they broke). Therefore, a Christian is to take those teachings as an addition to Christ's teachings.**
Therefore, I will not even address OT passages since as a Christian they are secondary.
I would also like to point out that if you do not understand the entire gist of a passage, when you take something out of context the idea conveyed changes completely. When you cited Matthew 5:29, you were using it in the wrong context-Jesus is talking about lusting after someone,this verse has nothing to do with violence:
"Jesus was not advocating self-mutilation (for this would not in fact cure lust, which is actually a problem of the heart). He was using this graphic hyperbole to demonstrate the seriousness of sins of lust and evil desire. The point is that it would be "more profitable" to lose a member of one's own body than to bear the eternal consequences of the guilt of such a sin" (MacArthur Study Bible 1401).
Please don't take this offensively, but I doubt that I as a Christian can be enlightened about my faith and its teaching by someone who neither believes in God nor possesses indepth knowledge about Jesus Christ or Christianity. I make it a point to study the Bible because it is my faith and what I believe in. Before I became a believer (I was once a skeptic also!) I didn't know anything about Christ or the Bible, and I also took passages out of context to try and "thwart" Christians. Now I can see how foolish that was: I had no idea what I was talking about!
To Fetch:
Once again, I ask for verses that follow along the lines of forcing people to believe, on pain of death. None of the passages you wrote dealt with that. In fact, most of them had nothing to do with the Bible PROMOTING violence. I never stated that the Bible did not CONTAIN violence. Furthermore, I'd like to put emphasis on what I just wrote (in the beginning). Now, I will deal with what Christ said:
Matthew 10:37--Nowhere does Jesus encourage violence. All he talks about is worth. And in this particular excerpt, he is only saying that it is unworthy of one to place a fellow human higher than God. God should be put first. I don't think that is mean, but rather quite understandable.
Colossians 3:20--I'm not sure why you included this scriptural verse. It has absolutely nothing to do with violence. On the contrary, it is quite peaceful!
I Peter 2:17--This passage has nothing to do with violence either. In fact, it seems pretty positive. It says to honor all fellow humans, love fellow church members (ie brotherhood), fear God and honor authority (ie king). If your question is why should we fear God...probably for the simple fact that he's God! He's creator of all things, giver of life etc. He's all-powerful. Once again, I think this is understandable and acceptable.
Here are some of my own passages:
Matthew 5:38-39--"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." (Here comes into play the whole 'Old/New Testament' thing. Jesus is the new code.)
Matthew 5:43-45--"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
Matthew 11:28-30--"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (I'm sorry, but how kind is that? Jesus is withot a doubt humble and caring!)
Luke 6:36--"Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."
So I say once again, Jesus Christ doesn't condone violence...he is actually quite opposed to it.

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And if you look at Jesus Christ's teachings and messages, HE DOES NOT CONDONE VIOLENCE. Bottom line. I would like to know what verses in the Bible state God as saying "Make them believe in me, and if they don't then kill them".

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Okay, first of all, everything gemini said.

The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God," They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice; There is no one who does good.
Psalms 53:1
"Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, in order that you may live.
Deuteronomy 30:6
The LORD keeps all who love Him; But all the wicked, He will destroy.
Psalms 145:20
"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
Matthew 10:37
Now that's just mean.
To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you shall bring forth children; Yet your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
"And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:15
Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.
Colossians 3:20 -even if your parents abused you, you're supposed to care for them when you're older, because they created you like god created you.

And a question-
Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

1 Peter 2:17
Why are you supposed to fear god?

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And if you look at Jesus Christ's teachings and messages, HE DOES NOT CONDONE VIOLENCE. Bottom line. I would like to know what verses in the Bible state God as saying "Make them believe in me, and if they don't then kill them".

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Christ does condone violence, and so does the Bible. My intentions are not to condemn your religion, but I feel I need to enlighten you on some things, and you may dispute them accordingly:

Gen. 7:4: "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth"

God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals.

Lev.20:9: "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."

So kill the kid? Wouldn't spanking be more efficient?

Mathew 5:29: "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery.

And people always ask why I turned Atheist. Hmm...

Ok. Well what people tend to forget is that Christianity is different from Judaism. That's why they are two separate religions. The Old Testament is the Hebrew scriptures, and although Christians accept it as God's Word, the point of there being a NEW Testament is that the old yokes are thrown off and a new covenant is made through Christ. And if you look at Jesus Christ's teachings and messages, HE DOES NOT CONDONE VIOLENCE. Bottom line. I would like to know what verses in the Bible state God as saying "Make them believe in me, and if they don't then kill them". Because off the top of my head, I can't recall any. To sum it all up for those who are not thoroughly informed about Christianity: the Old Testament is seen more as a history, although it does relay teachings. A Christian's basis for belief and morality is FROM JESUS CHRIST. The purpose of the NEW Testament (ie contract) is to replace the OLD Testament, which was the original agreement between God and His people (which they broke). Therefore, a Christian is to take those teachings as an addition to Christ's teachings. All one needs to do is look at Matthew 5-7 to see this.

Really, I'm almost sorry I stumbled on this one. What is this, the war of the "angels." Now that's really, really funny.

Anyway, right now, for me, all of this is in the "belief" stage. I truly do believe that for Israel and Palestine, there will be an agreed peace.

Sometimes it just takes a little realizing that many Israelis are Arabs, and people can see past the hate. Also, if women on both sides really get tired of seeing their children killed and put their feet down, make some demands of both their governments, then great strides will be made toward finding resolutions to the issues.

I am sympathetic toward both Israelis and the Palestinians. I just hope that Christians don't start making demands of the area, I mean, after all, our ancestors were from the region too. If the Palestinians are employed outside the region, say in Kuwait, for instance. Once their job contract is over, they have no choice but to leave Kuwait. So then where do they go? Just like the Israelis in the past, they have no home. Now the Israelis can be very understanding of the problem for the Palestinians and help them acquire their state.

Difficult times, I know, because what overwhelms Israel is that so many Palestinians are moving into the region, and as more people have more children (both the Israelis and the Palestinians), they can easily outgrow that tiny tract of land.

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And yes, Muslims do have the same God.[.quote]

Depends. Muslims have Allah, wehich which is the god they pray to. They don't have the bible. But the princables are the same- he supposdly created them, if they pray he'll love them, love each other help each other out, and so on. Other than that, loved your post

[quote]the truth is the Quran does in fact promote violence.

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Only in the way way the bible promotes violence. And don't tell me stoning someone or cutting their ear off isn't violent.

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Perhaps if more people "got their heads INto the Bible", the world would be a more peaceful place.

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Sure, if everyone killed anyone that didn't believe everything they did? Okay, that sounded a bit confusing to me. So I'll put it this way. According to the bible, god told his people and the kinds of Israel to force those who didn't believe in him to believe; if they still didn't, they were to be killed.
Everyone should go by this?

One more thing: I'm from Israel, but I don't think we're "right". But neither are they. israel is considered important to nearly every religon- and therefore, everyone wants it. Pity it's so tiny.

Oh, I certainly agree with you peaceofmind... I wouldn't want people to be against Palestinians simply because of their religion. That would be mad ignorant and prejudicial. I think that situation stopped being religious, however, a long long time ago. I do believe it is more about politics and power. Sometimes people just use religion as an excuse for violence, which is sad.
I'll deal with gemini's comment later...the Quran does indeed state circumstances where it is fine to kill people. Like I said before--I'll gladly find you the passage when I get a little time to do so.

Of course having different opinians & unerstandings is a fact ,but this doesnt mean we gone kill each other for it.
For Genius:
the hadith(prophet saying) you mentioned said :
"who ever ( a faithfull muslim) sees something wrong (or unaccepted )to the islamic teachings,he has to do any of these :1-change it by his hand (if has the power) 2-change it by his mouth ( advice them to stop it) 3-If he can't do any of them only by his heart( pray God for their sake to change the wrong deed)."

Of course this Hadith is for muslims in their countries ,not to force others to change their attitude & as i said before "you have our religion ,& we have ours" AS Qu'ran said.
What I realy am afraid of is that all of the bias in the Israli/palestine conflict (against palestinians) is because they are mostly muslems, & I think you know that Chritians have lived there peacefully ,with full freedom of thir religious acts,as I said " If any one hurts them as if he hurts me" said prophet Mohammed.
Muslems never surounded & shelled any church not to talk about the church of initiativity (as Israel)..
peace of mind ..

it seems to me all people really want to do is kill each other (i.e. revenge, land, power, money, self-righteousness, etc).

say and do what you will to me. i will rebute your foolish attacks with love.

may God have mercy on us all...

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those who have no religion ("pagans") are to be killed

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Uhm.. Neopagans, as they're called, DO have a religion. They are polytheists. Atheists have no religion. And the Qu'ran does not say to kill anyone.

You are absolutely right, the Quran does not say to CONVERT nonbelievers to Islam... but it does state that they should be put under Islamic rule. The subjects do not have to practice Islam, as long as they practice some sort of religion (ie Judaism/Christianity). However, those who have no religion ("pagans") are to be killed. I don't have the literature in front of me at the moment, but I took a course last semester--"War, Peace and Violence in Religious Thought"--and I researched this topic for one of my papers. Unfortunately I sold back the textbooks at the end of the period, so if you can allow me some time, I'll do my best to either find them again or look over my citations in my paper (to you too, Gemini--allow me time). Furthermore, what I was saying is that there ARE two types of "striving of the sword" (one of the 3 forms of jihad; the other 2 are of the mouth and heart): offensive and defensive. Defensive is obvious. Offensive is the spreading Islam, extending the dar-al-islam. Really, I'm not even including my opinion in any of this, I'm just relaying information that I've researched for myself. And as a last thought--Yes, gemini, the Bible does have a lot of violence in it. But it is only in the Old Testament, which is actually the Hebrew Scriptures. Any Christian will tell you that they also believe it to be God's Word and include it with our own New Testament, but the difference between the two faiths is Jesus Christ. The thing is, testament is basically synonymous with "covenant" or "contract". The New Testament is a new contract with God through Christ, the old one having been broken. Therefore, I follow Christ's teaching primarily, and use the Old Testament as both supplementary teaching and history. And Jesus Christ unquestioningly OPPOSED any sort of violence. Peace all~~

The true islam says jihad (struggle)against other people IF only attacked from others,not to rule over other people .Qu'ran says " Don't attack others unless they attack first,God dosn't approve & dislike offensive acts &people"
Prophet "Mohammed" said if any muslim hurts a "Zimmi" (nonmuslim in an islamic country)as if he hurts him(the prophet), told muslims not to obligate any non muslims to follow islam,& there is in Qu'ran says "they have their religion & we have ours " meaning there is no obligations, so saying Islam uses violance to spread & force islam rule is simply nonsence ,& it may not be your fault because Islam is being explained in the media in a biased way & ignorance.
Most of the muslem in India ,pakistan & all Asia & Africa entered islam by trade between these nations & muslems .

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With that in mind, the truth is the Quran does in fact promote violence.

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I'd like proof, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. The "proof" you provided states nothing. The Bible promotes plenty of violence, and I'd be happy to show you the verses.

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Although you dismiss the Bible as nonsensical fables, you still accept the so-called "legend" that the Arabic and Israelite races originated from brothers... (??)

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No, I don't accept anything from any religious texts that isn't common sense. I was simply providing "evidence" for you Christian believers, seeing how you trust that everything the Bible says it true. Proof for you, not for me.

And I do respect Christians and their beliefs, I simply disagree with them.

The last thing I want to do is attack or belittle someone else's religion (ie Islam). With that in mind, the truth is the Quran does in fact promote violence. There are countless verses that encourage s