I know i said that i wont be replying back but i still get the e-mail's and i think your totaly right "genius" we both live in fear and it is all the goverments fault, both of them!
"fairplayer", i understand that as a palestinian you agree with your people but hurts me to see that you have no simpathy for us Israelis.
We live in fear just like you and we dont want this.You have to understand that most Israelis dont want all this and that you shouldnt hate us because of what the goverment does.
I just hope you all will stop with the; "Israelis do this,Plestinians do that" It takes to tango for gods sake!
PEACE,LOVE & HAPINESS -SuperStarAngel,A rebel with a cause.

Did you know that over 200.000 palestinian kids don't go to school because of the closure of the palestinian territories as if they were living in a large prison.
The day before yesterday,the israeli artillary shelled civilian homes killing & wounding alot,they even shot a handicapped man who was openning the mosque in the early morning in his leg & left him to bleed till death.
Also the attacks against the israeli civilians causes casualties & intense fear among them.
I think there shoud be a radical fair solution according to the U.N security council resolutions,where a just & comprehensive peace treaty in responce to the occupied land, same to what happened with Egypt ,Israel retreated from their land in exchange with peace that lasted till now ,& it was with a Lekud party & both leaders were strong & wanted a better future for their next generations.
But now of course "Sharon" with his extreme wing government is trying to exploit the U.S. attack on Iraq to dismantle the case & kick the palestinians out of their land, & then nobody can say why do they hate us that much..
& the next generations will kill each other till the end of times.
The U.S administration mustn't delay this case any longer ,& must implement a fair peacfull solution according to the U.N security council resolutions,or else there wouldn't be any respectfull humanity in this region.
This site explain the conflict in unbiased way(as most of the U.S. media do?):
www.robincmiller.com/melinkfr.htm

Hey- did anyone see the mtv special "true life" about the middle east conflict? all i can say is that it was so sad. i truly feel bad for both sides. it's like, israel's gotta worry about being blown up on a bus, but palestinian's get treated like 2nd class citizens. it totally sucks. and the thing is, is that everybody is the same- we're all people. ya know what i mean? we all got the same concerns, the same feelings and fears... it f'in sucks that people have to go through that. if we just left this up to the youth, there probably wouldn't be so much violence (totally my opinion, so no need to jump on me). these kids on the documentary, they don't want all this crap going on, they just wanna finish school, get a job... normal things we take for granted. it's sad- mtv did a good job with the show. i think it really comes down to how the leaders are dealing with each other, not the people...

It was Palestine long before it was Israel, and for significantly longer.

wow. everyone needs to just relax a little, take it down a level... get a hold of yourselves. when you wig out like that, it only makes you look like an angry person and discredits your arguments. i got nothing but love for everyone!

I hate to seem discouraging, but Personally I think the world is spiraling unstoppably towards Armegeddon.

Ok ive decided that i am losing alot of patiance on people here so i will be leaving you guys.
Alot of you guys are just ignorant and anoying!
You guys need to understand that you'r words wont bring peace, even tho most of you just want land and not peace.
Killing is not the way, it wont bring anything.
Try thinking in a positive way.
ISRAEL MY HOME LAND I LOVE YOU FOREVER

"God bless the holly land of ISRAEL"

fairplayer: yes, that was what I was pointing out, and I agree with flyinghigh86, as you'll see if you review the earlier pages of this post.

Review his(or her) last reply before the one you replyed to ,she called one of the noise makers who she couldn't argue with in a logical fashion as you say. and called him a pig .she said:

"you have no idea how much i dislike you right now you PIG"
All of that because one of the noise makers(Flyinghigh86) said his opinion (the truth ) right at her face.So who lost now , I hope you understand.
AS regard the jewish noisemaker(superstarangel)
nothing makes you furious as the frank truth that you Israeli's are a bunch of war criminals that have nothing to do except stealing other people's land & claim it yours, look at the dozens of U.N security council resolution you violated you anti-human terrorists.
Lastly I'm not a palestinean (regretfully I don't have that honour)

superstarpig:
You called him a pig, but he cant do the same ? hypocritical, ne ? Instead of ranting and whining at him, respond to his argument in a logical fashion. Otherwise, in a debate, when you do not refute the argument of the opponent, you have lost.

Ok, first of all you have no right to call me a pig!
You ignorant, evil person! Your a lame excuse of a human being!
My god get over it,IT IS CALLED ISRAEL!!!
IT WILL NEVER BE PALESTINE!
It is rightfully ours, it is not you'r land and we were nice enough to let palestinians live there instead of kicking them out. Your greedy and pittiful!
We came back to our home land when you guys just decided to live there because other countries kicked you out, they didnt want you!
It wasent even ruled by you for gods sake!
Go find somewhere else to live and stop killing us!!

You are entirely wrong because it isn't a religious war, it's a war between a brutal occupier of a land (claimed fallaciously by Israel & with no LEGAL proof what so ever)& defenceless people who can't defend themselves except with their skins.
THE JOKE OF THE YEAR BY DebAB
"Israel is being quite decent to them,they are not kicking them out of the land COMPLETELY"
So if they kick them out of THEIR land completely ,they are only not decent.

Flyinghigh86... My advice to you is to keep flying & don't listen to the SuperStarPIG. Keep writing the truth.

Dear board:

The Israel and Palenstine situation is a very tough situation to fix. When Bill Clinton was President he became the closet ever to borker a peace deal when he brought Netenyahu and Arafat to Camp David, but Arafat vetoed the peace deal at the last moment. If you visit this site: http://www.nad-plo.org/david/diaries.html it puts the deal in perspective, which I thinkw would have worked. We must have peace in the Middle East, although I don't think it will come anytime soon. I say maybe 10 years from now, the Middle East may become a much more peacul region. But until then America and the rest of the civilized world must continue to press both Israel and the PLO to work towards peace and to stop fighting.

Best Wishes,

Joshua M.

[This message was edited by YNLissa on February 16, 2003 at 01:06 PM.]

Well, i would just like to tell everyone that this is a sensitive issue - mostly because it is almost a war over religion. It's extremely sad that both the Palestinians (Muslims) and the Israelis (mostly Jews) hate each other - this is not the way it should be.
Anyway, i feel that we should support the Israelis because they are the one's on the defensive, they won the land "fair and square". The palestinians, of course, have a claim to the land, but they have to realize that the Jews do also. And if you really think about it, Israel is being quite decent to them. They are not kicking them out of the land completely. Ah i have to go
bye bye.... but please realize what i'm trying to say.

If you were as interested in "helping" as you claim to be, you would stop trying to get the last word in on this argument and you would be the one to move on (as I probably should, but as established I am vain and refuse to back down). Go ahead, take the high road, fine by me.

If you took the time to look up words before assuming that I was misusing them, you know know that "estimation" is commonly used interchangably (and completely correctly) with "assessment." So for my "estimation" of you to be low is to have my assesment of you be low, which it is.

If "they dont need your help or my help," as you say, then why have you told me time and again that I'm not being helpful? Why should I be helpful if they don't need our help, but our "guidance" (and what, pray tell, is the difference)? And how can you be so patronizing as to assume that at the ripe old age of 23 (or 24) you're in any position to "guide" anyone, call the people on YouthNOISE "children", and still tell me in the same breath tham I'm belittling people? I'm just making the point that in my experience, coming off as inarticulate and ignorant and not caring about either condition is the quickest way to lose credibility in debates, discussions, or in day to day conversation. If you can't express yourself meaningfully (and I don't mean in terms of emotion or in terms of someone elses's opinion of you but in terms of actually assigning the appropriate meaning to your thoughts on a much more basic linguistic level), how can you be expected to be taken seriously? That's all I'm saying.

And as for me beating my kids and starving them...what? Since when does having a healthy respect for English equal child abuse? I'm not trying to "teach" anyone anything, especially not what to think. I'm not even suggesting HOW to think. I'm just suggesting the "hows" of presentation as they pertain to the written word.

Um...and if you can call me "sucka", I'm certainly entitled to comment on the status of your bunched up panties.

Holla.

Hey- I was just wondering who Joe Dumars was? I'm curious...

Man girl dont you know how to move on? I will give you the fact that you are opinionated but nothing more. I am the same so please get to helping and stop wasting our time. These children need our help not our personal battle.


Now as for your estimation? What are we on the math busters now? It is not an estimation unless you are a mechanic, you are wrong it is an opinion. Sucka. You think or is it your opinion again? That young people need help making their decisions for them. I will beg to differ. They dont need your help or my help. What they need is guidence. Not our opinions. They need to express themselves in ways that are meaningful for other people? Right and what planet are you from again? Since when has someone elses point of view or opinion about you mattered? It doesnt, it never has and it never will. I bet you think we should beat our kids when they get out of hand as well or better yet we can starve them and then make them do what we want instead of teaching them, we can drive the fear of adults right into there brains. My panties in a bunch good one where did you get that one from the book of cant debate for children? Now I want you to know I find our conversasions stimulating but please move on we need to focus on other matters at hand, not each other and the obvious dislike for each of our opinions.

Ok dude, you DO NOT want me to reply to that!!! You have no idea how much i dislike you right now you pig!

Isreal is the biggest sponser of tyranny and terrorism in the whole entire world and practises tyranny itself. Isreal trained the soldiers of many of the dictators in SOuth America, such as Pinnochet and dictators in africa and the middle east. When the whole world put sanctions on selling weapons to South Africa when it had an apartheid regime Isreal continued to sell them weapons. (perhaps it could relate to the white south afrikaners apartheid regime and values. doesnt it just kill when human rights and freedom get in the way of exploiting and killing a people). An ISreali was the person who assassinated the prime minister of Isreal who was trying to get peace with the palestinians. and in the 1980's isreal soldiers stood by whilst christian lebanese militia massacred palestinian people and refused to let palestinians escape by not allowing them to leave the camp whilst they were supposed to protect them. An american reporter said that it was largely an undefended civilian camp. CIVILIAN see not terrorist but the isrealis still refused to help or to even show them mercy by allowing the palestinians to escape.

I hate it when Americans try to make out or anyone in fact that the isrealis are the people who are suffering why dont we look at the reality. More palestinians have died since the intifada started then the isrealis. More palestinian children have been killed since the intifida began then isrealis. palestinians can not live a normal life because of isreali incursions where they have curfews put on them, can not earn a living because they cant get to their work places and people cant get to their shops because of isreali check points. Palestinians can not get to their hospitals and emergency service people can not get to those in need of aid because of check points. Many palestinians women have been forced to give birth at check points because the isreal soldiers wont let them through to go to hospital. Isreali soldiers shoot bullets at children who throw stones. The homes of palestinian people are demolished daily by isreal. Isreal has built ILLEGAl settlements on palestinian land (note the word illegal) contrary to UN resolutions and continued to build the settlements until George Bush Snr had to final force Isreal to halt the building of its illegal settlements. Palestinians have no nationality, have no passport so they can not even escape to another country whcih means they have effectively all been turned in to refugees. Isreali soldiers massacred Palestinian people in Jenin leaving hundreds dead in its ill-planned attempt to catch the palestinian freedom fighters in which it left hundreds dead to pursue the minority of freedom fighters who were in the camp. Similarly Isreal destroyed a whole neighbourhood by bombing it because one leader of a palestinian freedom fighting organisation was on the street. Roads are blocked off for hours to the palestinians and huge traffic builds up so that 5 settlers can use the road. Isreal soldiers led by Ariel Sharon walked in to al-aqsa mosque whilst muslim people were praying and ordered everyone to leave. Palestinians and muslims are restricted access to their holy sites and both muslims and christians are not allowed to ring their bell or to give the call to prayer at the mosque. Palestinians young people can not even get to their universities because isreal imposes curfews.

And that is only what had been happening to the palestinians in the past few years since the intifada started. What is happening in Palestine right now is combined apartheid and genocide. Palestinians are not allowed to have a normal life and are treated like second class citizens by the state of isreal. Every where they go palestinians must carry ID or else they can not travel and are forced to humiliatingly go through check points and wait for hours for a few isreal settlers to pass back and forth between their ILLEGAL settlements according to international law and to the UN. Isreal uses any opportunity to destroy palestinian homes and impose incursions. Some Isreal politically parties do not even try to hide their attempt at genocide saying the palestinians need to be 'transferred'. Transferred huh. OFF THEIR OWN LAND!!!!!! Isreal doesnt want peace it never has it never will. Previous prime ministers of isreal like Golda Meir even refused to acknowledge that there were a people called Palestinians Golda Meir saying they simply did not exist. Isreal wont even let in international observers and america vetos attempts to send international observers over there or even protection for the palestinian people even if everyone in the Un votes for it. Real democratic. And the isrealis have now twice voted for the war criminal, war monger Ariel Sharon. Now how clearer can they get that they do not want peace that they voted for a war criminal known for being an advecote of war and a reviler of peace settlements with the palestinians. Lets draw a little comparison shall we between Isreal and Iraq which is america's new misguided crusade. Both countries are led by war criminals, both countries (actually a question mark on Iraq) have weapons of mass destruction, both countries are in violation (actually Iraq is no longer in violation its allowing in inspectors) of UN resolutions, both countries (actually not iraq anymore) refuse to allow in inspectors or obdervers and both countried are a threat to their neighbouring countries (actually question mark on Iraq). Wow it looks like this comparison is out of date its only isreal that is this bad still the only thing they have in common is they are lead by war criminals. but will america go after isreal who seriously undermine the UN by flouting UN resolutions and by not allowing inspectors and being lead by a war criminal and being a threat to its neighbours. NOOOOO. instead the USA actually protects it. Oh well what can we expect from a country who wants to go to war with a country that supposedly has weapons of mass destruction but then refuses to do anything about north korea who are not even bothering to hide the fact that they have weapons of mass destruction and who can literally make a nuclear bomb in weeks. No end to the endless hypocrisys of the worlds greatest superevil.

Isreal is a threat to all the countries in the middle east. The torah says from the euphrates to the nile not just the land of palestine. if they could justify their collonisation of palestine using the torah then whats stopping them from colonising the whole entire middle east. Im getting depressed now im gonna stop. But let me just say to all americans here what you see is not the reality. just find out the truth. research the whole conflict in the middle east and not in the media but in unbiased sources. Injustice will prevail when people are kept ignorant.

You have every right to think that I'm not helpful. In my estimation, you aren't particularly helpful, so I won't deny your right to think so of me.

I think making young people realize that if they want to be taken seriously (not getting taken seriously being one of the biggest complaints I get from the young people I work with), they need to present themselves in a clear and responsible manner. They need to be able to respond to non-attacking criticism of their arguments and recognize it as such rather than becoming irrational and defensive. They need to be able to support what they are saying and express themselves in ways that are meaningful to other people. I think illuminating these issues is helpful (of at least as much value than you telling clinically depressed kids to stop whining and get over themselves and certainly more helpful than wasting your time trying to get me to feel bad).

This is not intended to belittle anyone or make anyone feel inadequate, as I covered in the "spelling and grammar" board. I have never intended to make anyone feel bad (with a few obvious exceptions and usually then only against people who I thought were capable of defending themselves). Please get your panties out of a bunch.