Palestine was its own country. It did have its own government.

Palestine was NEVER a country; it was an area of land.

Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon are COUNTRIES; Palestine was the name of the land - it was never a country; didn't have its own government or a leader.


And when the UN formally recognized Israel in 1948, she got attacked by the Arab nations (which, ironically, voted against having Israel becoming a country) surrounding it.

Israel has been having religious prejudice in it for a very very long time. The Jews believe that they are the true rulers of the land of Israel because Isaac, Son of Abraham, was the rightful owner of the throne in ancient Palestine. The Muslims believe they are the rightful owners to Israel because of Ishmael, Son of Abraham, as well. Wherein lies the truth to all this? Abraham supposedly was told by God to sacrifice his son Isaac to show loyalty to God. Right before Abraham was going to kill Isaac, God stopped him and told him that he had passed the test. On the other hand, God had also told Abraham to have a child with an Arabic woman because Abraham's wife could not have children. Abraham did as he was told, and thus Ishmael came to be.
On another note, the Jews believe they are the rightful owners to the land of Israel because their anscestors were their before the Muslim anscestors.
Israel has been tossed from agreement to agreement by countries who had NOTHING to do with Palestine at the time. After WWI, there were a number of agreements such as, The Balfour Declaration, White Paper, The British/Arab Agreement, and The Sykes-Picot Agreement. All of these agreements contained the land of Palestine. After the war was over, these declarations were hardly carried out. It was not until the end of WWII when the UN got together and decided they would give the Jews a homeland in Palestine. They renamed Palestine Israel, and gave the Jews complete control over the land. Original Palestinians moved into the areas of The West Bank, and The Gaza Strip. Many people have varying opinions on this, but what about you?

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I was also shocked when i saw palestinians cheering on the news after september 11th!
God how disgusting is that?Not only do they hate Israeli's but also Americains.

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America funds Israel.

I was horrified when I saw that footage too. But that's probably why they hate the States so much. Generally I think they're a very hate-fuelled people.

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There was an area known as Palestine, that itself cannot be refuted.
There was, however, no country called Palestine

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Incorrect. Israel was once a country called Palestine, inhabited purely by Palestinian Arabs. TRUE.
They had lived there undisturbed for approximately 2000 years. The Israelis inhabited the land before that time, but they'd been driven out by the Romans.
The Zionist Jews returned to Palestine after a 2000 year absence, due to permission from America and Britian who agreed that they needed a homeland.
I'm not against the Jews having a homeland but the Palestinians deserve one too. I doubt they're ever going to have one but there's no denying that they've had more taken from them than they deserve.
A lot of you guys live in the States. Your families have lived there for LESS than 2000 years. Who lived there before you? Well I'm not an expert on American history or anything but in a lot of places it was the American Indians. If The American Indians came and kicked you out of your homes, saying that the land was rightfully theirs, then wouldn't you be a bit miffed?
I'm just trying to get across how the Palestinians must have felt.
I don't particularly support either side of the conflict though. I have great sympathy for the Palestinians because I feel they've had something of a raw deal. I don't support the way they fight their war. I don't support the Israelis either because they took more than was allotted to them. For anybody who doesn't know the history of the conflict:
When the Jews first started immigrating into what was Palestine and is now Israel, the Arabs weren't best pleased and there was a lot of fighting in the streets. The UN weren't sure what to do. So they decided to divide the land between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Line down the middle, you have this half, you have that.
The Israelis didn't follow these rules. They took their half, and then proceeded to invade the Palestinian half and drive the Arabs out of their farms using military force. The Palestinians were driven back and back, and had to settle in two tiny pockets of land, West Bank and Gaza. They are still there today. Even cooped up in these little areas, they are not allowed to govern themselves and still have to submit to Israeli rule.
In making a homeland for their own people the Israelis have deprived another people of theirs. Unsurprisingly this makes the Palestinians angry. They pass on this hate to their children, who will continue to blow themselves and other people up for the cause.
It's a terrible mess and I doubt there will ever be peace.

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God how disgusting is that?Not only do they hate Israeli's but also Americains.
When will the hatred end?
I realy dont hate all palestinians, but when they try to pick fights with me i must say it pisses me off!!!

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When will the hatred end, indeed.

Dante- I went to your website, typed in KJV, Gen. 26:8- It says Philistines. I have to repeat myself when I say that it does not say Palestines, nor in your other citations (with the exception of Joel 3:4). Both sides are in the wrong by their resort to violence. It's sad, but what can you do? Just war tradition says there are certain accepted criteria for when a war can be considered just: Just cause, right authority, right intention, proportionality of ends, last resort, reasonable hope of success, the aim on peace. Just cause: defense of innocent against armed attack, retaking something wrongly taken, punishment of evil. Right author.:person/body authorizing use of force must be duly authorized representative of a sovereign political entity. intention: evils to be avoided in war, including hatred of the enemy, "implacable animosity", "lust for vegeance", (Palestine?)desire to dominate. proportionality: overall good achieved by use of force must be greater than the harm done. Last resort: determination at the time of the decision to employ force that no other means will achieve the justified ends sought. reasonable hope: prudential calculaton of the likelihood that the means used will bring the justfied ends sought. Aim of peace: establishment of int'l stability, security, and peaceful interaction.
Sidenote-The usage of terrorist tactics that some (not all, keep in mind) Palestinians use discredit their intentions. Figure out for yourselves where Israel and Palestine fit into these criteria-you'd be surprised just how unjust this war really is. In my opinion, there's nothing anyone can do to solve this problem- it doesn't get fixed until Christ returns.

FIRST OF ALL, MERRY CHRISTMAS!

in the bible it says, "DAVID,KING OF JERUSALEM IN JUDA"(Israel)
Instead of getting to the whole "land" crap i just wanna say that what horrifies me sooooo most is when palestinians are asked why they do such stuff they answer "revenge".
I mean how disturbing is that?
Israeli's have the right to deffend themselves and the only reason more Palestinians died is because they send there children to throw rocks on Israeli's,they give them guns and teach them from birth to hate Israeli's!

I was also shocked when i saw palestinians cheering on the news after september 11th!
God how disgusting is that?Not only do they hate Israeli's but also Americains.
When will the hatred end?
I realy dont hate all palestinians, but when they try to pick fights with me i must say it pisses me off!!!

Also i want to add that no matter how much you bomb Israel, they will never and i mean NEVER just get up leaveso think reasonably people. and for god sakes dont blame them when for the death of your people because you bring it on yourselves!

They cheer when there husbands go and blow themselves up, they want all jews to die.
It's sad because i know many jews who do not want them to die! they never wish for them to die!
Most of them want peace!

Joel 3:4 if you want another. Look that up in the KJV. It's all over the place. In Latin the word is "Palestine".

I do have the exact quote and I have a Quaran, A few books of Mormon, the Lost Gospels, and have several Bibles, in many differnt languages. You could have at least asked before assuming.

And since when can you read minds? From te testimonies I've seen and heard what the great mass of people want is to simply be left alone. It's not their fault that there are militants who are more extreme in beliefs and methods.

But what does the bulldozing of homes and the creation of settlements do but create orphans and more militants with nothing to lose? Once you've taken their home and their family, what's left?

You wouldn't agree with that kind of police state here, so why tolerate it abroad? 5,000 males rounded up due to relgion and ethnicity, most will never be chaged with a crime. There is little to no evidence to suspect many of them, and it will not stop the bombings.

Heck, if an army set up camp in my back yard I'd probably throw some rocks too.

Unless there was some varifiable deed to the land that is shown (holy books don't count) I'm afraid one claim is as good as another.

And here you are again on the spelling? Since when is copmputer utterings an adequate baromenter of spelling?
Given that this is tping, not writing, not a verbal test, and the fact that I don't much care because obviously, unless you're incompetant, you can read. You quickly loose respect when you resort to simple bitterness.

And it's not witty anymore; you've used those same two lines (me knowing everything and spelling incorrectly) four times in the past three or four days. The least you could do is refresh your list of inane insults ever day or two. Common courtesy?

There was an area known as Palestine, that itself cannot be refuted.

There was, however, no country called Palestine; Yasser Arafat, one of the biggest terrorists alive today, wanted to create an independent state in 1988 - and with Shrub's help, he just might get one.

How's that for blasting history;

Anyway, let's just call these terrorists what they really are: Jordanians, Syrians or Lebonese.

Israel's army has a right to defend itself from foreign invaders, and that's exactly what she's doing.

Children, women, men ...these Palestinians - all of them - want to exterminate the Jews.

Likewise with the Jews. They want what is theirs, which is Israel - which was given to them by a Christian God.

Dante, you can guarantee those words "Palestine" came from your KJV source? Well, in looking up those verses in the King James Version of my Bible, it notes that the word is "Philistine." However, I'm not saying Palestine wasn't a branch-off of that original land.

Anyway, if you're going to direct quote, make you sure you have the exact quote.

Since you seem to know everything about every Biblical argument, you must have a Bible handy?

Not saying the internet is a bad research tool, nooo way.

But if you're going to quote the King James Version, make sure you state which edition it is - because, like I said, my KJV Bible has something completely different from what you quoted.

We shouldn't be surprised seeing all of these mistakes. You can't even spell.

Your argument would be much more credible if you could um, get the facts (quotes) straight and spell.

I quoted directly from the KJV. I garuntee that's what it says in that version. And I also garuntee James didn't have a stake in oil profits in 20th century Middle East that would bias him. (http://unbound.biola.edu/)

In no way did I intend to say that The Israelites didn't live in the region known as Palestine until recently. I thought I clearly said the reason teh region is today known as Israel is becasue once there was a man, Jacob, who came to be known as Israel, and the land where he then lived was known as the land of Israel, where the Jewish people were supposed to live; and, for this reason, the present-day nation was dubbed Israel.

But, from the diaspora of the Jews thorughout the world until the return in the 1900's the area was not majority Jewish and the region was majority Palestinian much of the time leading up to the creation of Israel after teh Second World War.

I agree with what Dante says about it being silly to simply argue about a name... i read Angel's post and it does seem flippant. But, on the other hand- Dante did misquote the Old Testament. It does NOT say "Palestines", it said Philistines. And I know that the word Palestine was originally derived from the Greek word for "Philistia", or "land of the Philistines". However, you cannot just change text from the Bible to fit your argument. If it says Philistine, than that's what it says. When the OT was written, there was no Palestine yet. And Philistia was not Palestine as we know it today- the terms are NOT inerchangeable. "Philistia originally referred only to the southwest portion of the land (where the Philistines dwelt) but,[in its later form] it came to denote all the land of Israel" (A Survey of Israel's History 8). If you look at a map denoting the expanse of David and Solomon's Empire (12 Tribes of Israel), you can see the vast amount of land compared to the small territory of the Philistines (1200-1020 BC). Even later on, the majority of present-day Palestine was split between Judah and Israel, with the same small territory of Philistia. Furthermore,note the definition: "Palestine, the name of a territory on the eastern Mediterannean coast, occupied in biblical times by the kingdoms of Israel and Judah" (Encyc. Brit. Vol.7 pg.693). Israel occupied that area long before the conflict of recent times. It would be inaccurate to simply say that Palestine until the 1900's has been dominantly occupied by the ethnic group of Palestinians. First, Palestinians are of the Arabic ethnic group-as are the majority of the peoples in that area. Secondly: "Palestine has been held by virtually every power of the Near East, among them Egypt, Assyria, Babylonia, Persia, Alexander the Great's empire and those of his successors (the Ptolemies and Seleucids), the Romans, Byzantines, Ummayads Abbasids, Fatimids, crusaders, Ayyubids, Mamluks, and Ottoman Turks" (EB V.7 p.694). You get the idea. It is not as if Palestine was an established empire who was only usurped as of late.
Don't take what people say to be true without researching it for yourselves! Merry Christmas and God Bless!

Genesis:

Genesis 21:33
And Abimelech, and Phicol the general of his army arose and returned to the land of the Palestines. But Abraham planted a grove in Bersabee, and there called upon the name of the Lord God eternal.
Genesis 21:34
And he was a sojourner in the land of the Palestines many days.
Genesis 26:1
And when a famine came in the land, after that barrenness which had happened in the days of Abraham, Isaac went to Abimelech king of the Palestines to Gerara.
Genesis 26:8
And when very many days were passed, and he abode there, Abimelech king of the Palestines looking out through a window, saw him playing with Rebecca his wife.
Genesis 26:14
And he had possessions of sheep and of herds, and a very great family. Wherefore the Palestines envying him,
Genesis 26:18
And he digged again other wells, which the servants of his father Abraham had digged, and which, after his death, the Palestines had of old stopped up: and he called them by the same names by which his father before had called them.

Exodus:

Exodus 23:31
And I will set thy bounds from the Red Sea to the sea of the Palestines, and from the desert to the river: I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hands, and will drive them out from before you.

Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 47:1
The word of the Lord that came to Jeremias the prophet against the people of Palestine, before Pharao took Gaza.

Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 16:57
Before thy malice was laid open: as it is at this time, making thee a reproach of the daughters of Syria, and of all the daughters of Palestine round about thee, that encompass thee on all sides.


There are more if you want.

"Israel" was the name given to the person, and only later to the land he dwelled on. Like any place named for a person (Georgia or Baltimore perhaps).

The region where you dwell, could be called the land of _______ and we could forever call your town ________. This would likely only happen if you were important or there were a lot of you (i.e. we call Germany this because a while back the Germanic tribes lived there).

Likewise, it was the land of the Palestineans, and prior to the creation of a country in the area (speaking about modern times), the region was known as Palestine.

Isreal also most certainly didn't fit the current boundaries we place on that nation. The borders changed and were inexact, there weren't checkpoints and walls dividing the land like there is now.

The name Palestine is also sometimes refered to as Philistinea and is mentioned often in the Bible, both OT and NT.

If you want to be technical, Jesus was born in Judea.

There were many differnt areas at the time. Like Sumeria (Samaritans), Galilee (Galatians) for instance.

It is simply because the Isrealites live there now that it is called Israel, that is the name they chose. Jacob, son of Abraham, (I beleive the translation is) "struggled with God" and was dubbed 'Israel' for it. Thus, 'Israel' and the 'Israelis'.

If teh land is defined by the people who live there it is illogical the be "bothered" the words "Britan" (the Britons) or France (the Franks), Rome (the Romans), or Palestine (the Palestinians). It is only correct to call it what it is.

The Palestinians live there (the occupied territories) and it is rightly called Palestine. In fact, until the early 1900s the Palestineans were the dominant ethnic group and the region was commonly known as Palestine, again, rightfully so.

The map only says "Israel" because that's what it was named when the UN created it. Additionally, the talking heads refer to it as Israel becasue that is the commonly accepted name for the Nation they are speaking of.

However, the nation that was created did not include teh Golan Heights, the West Bank, or teh Gaza Strip. These are the occupied territories and are not Israel proper. It is similar to taking over Canada and calling it the United States.

Accuracy dictates that these contested regions are not accepted as legitamate parts of Israel and so tehy go by a different name. What name? How about the name of te peple who live there? So we call it Palestine.

I can't imagine why you would cringe at historical accuracy.

Regardless of all of this, it could be called 'Pango Pango' and there would still be a conflict. Suck it up and think of a better argument than a mere name dispute.

I would highly recomend Leon Uris' novel Exodus, which describes the new exodus of Jews into the Holy Land after WWII. It is a compelling read. Don't cheat and watch the movie; Paul Newman is adorable, and it is a very good movie, but also read the book. (for anyone who's interested in why the Jews felt that they needed their own homeland after WWII, read Uris' book Mila 18. warning: you will cry)
a harder read then Exodus, is the non-fiction O Jerusalem. (I beleive that one of the two authors is larry Collins.) Like I said, it's a long read, but trust me, it's worth it. I read it before I read Exodus,and found that being able to recognize real names/battles/events gave me more insight into the story. O Jerusalem also has a excellent index.
I own all three of these books. they are sort of rare, but any self-respecting library should have them.
Happy holidays ~Rabbitt

I think this probably sums it up...
"At least 1,718 Palestinians and 670 Israelis have been killed since the Palestinian revolt began."
A qoute from a Reuters correspondent. The Palestinian revolt began in 2000. Almost three times more Palestinians have died than Israelis. The violence makes me sick. I can't say I truly support either side. How can I support a side that bombs a Yom Kippur festival, or a wedding, or a bus full of school children? But on the other hand, I find it hard to support a country whos soldiers took turns raping a nurse before shotting her to death. I guess I learn more towards Palestine simply because more children and other innocents die than in Israel. Neither side is right, violence only begetts more violence...
R.I.P. Joe Strummer of the Clash
-Molly

Id be lying if i said that it doesnt bother me when people say "palestine".
I mean it says ISRAEL on the map and people refer to it as Israel in the news.

And in the Bible it says Israel, Jesus was born in ISRAEL not palestine!
Even in the koran it says something about where Jacob was born ISRAEL!!!
I dont realy know how to show everyone that all the bombing is a waste of time because The Israelis will NEVER get up and leave Israel.
It's there Counrty and all the murder is just a waste!!
So to Stop the suffering on each side come on people get to your sences and think straight.
STOP KILLING YOUR CHILDREN PEOPLE! ISRAELIS & PALESTINIANS!

Plestine must go because

1) It is not their land.
2) They are trying to conquer and internationaly recognized soverign nation.
3) They are war hungry terrorists who thrive on killing civilians.

Palestine has seen more freedom than ever before under Isrealie rule, they should be happy with what they get, instead they must fight for more, like dogs.

I don't mean to sound rude or anything at all,I am just curious, why do the palestinians need to go?

The focal point of this conflict can be summed up in one word: land.

The Israelites have always had the land, and therefore a country.

The Palestinians have never had their own state.

They keep fighting because it's "their" land and they're just trying to "take back" the country, but they never had one to begin with.

Yeah, Israel is guilty of a lot of things, but let's get one thing settled: the Palestinians have got to go.