Well, I don't care if you people are Christian or not, but there will be a time when the countries of the world push too far into Israel.

At that time, you better hope you're not Russian, or from China or anywhere else for that matter.

There will never be Peace in the Middle East UNTIL Jesus Christ Himself establishes His Kingdom.

The God of Christians, Jews and Muslims all have one thing in common: Abraham. The Torah, Bible and Koran all mention him. Yet they fight, fight, fight.

But, there will never be peace in the middle east. EVER. You can hope, pray, etc. all you want, but the Bible is very clear (I'm not sure about what the Koran says).

There's this huge misconception that the Palestinians had a country of their own, which is a complete fallacy.

Bush, in outlining his intentions for a Palestinian state by 2005, is just a war monger. Clinton and Gore are the same way; each calling for a separate state GIVEN the fact that Palestine was not itself an individual country in the first place, but rather an area.

The End Times are here. You don't have to believe it, but it's true.

Dijja:
The way in which Jesus says to "love thy neighbor" is not the same as "falling in love", as you put it. I think it would be safe to say that this idea of loving one's neighbor means to have charity among your fellow humans. In no way am I suggesting that we "fall in love" with Bin Laden or whatnot. IDEALLY we are to do what Jesus would do, which is forgive whoever is trespassing against us. And it is not fair to categorize every TRUE Jesus following Christian as just "the U.S.". Is it fair to categorize one Muslim as evil just because Bin Laden is? I don't think so (even though many people do just that). That is like me saying that you, Dijja, are evil like him because you are of the same faith.
Secondly: I know for a FACT that my "case" will never be achieved because (unlike in your opinion of not being meant to be, which can only be determined by God) mankind is inherently evil. We're born into sin, and live in sin until we accept Jesus' atonement. So yes, it is human instinct to fight each other. As to someone "killing my entire family"- there is no way I would "love" him and try to "cure" him. As a human being, I would hate him, no doubt. But, IDEALLY-WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? He would forgive this person, and if anything feel pity for him- because as he says in the Bible~~> "...Father, forgive them: for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:34). This is as Jesus is nailed to the cross! Imagine someone is putting you through a torturous death, and you ask God for their forgiveness! So of course, no one is good like Christ- but what we do is strive to become like him. It is TRYING to love one's neighbor (though we do not reach this perfection until we are with Christ). And you're right- if whomever does wrong is not punished un this life, he will be by God.
**If anybody who is reading this post would like to learn more about Jesus Christ or Christianity, feel free to contact me**

It seems that u didnt understand what i said, or ur trying to turn things around. i said some TIME (1400 yrs ago) muslims used to pray towards Al Aqsa mosque in jerusalem, but God ordered his messenger(PBUH) to pray and his people towards Mecca but the messenger told us to pray in the tow mosques in KSA and in the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem as praying there is of great reward.

I think i have put the quote from the Quran, mentioning that jerusalem is a Holy land. here it is again,, hope u'l understand it this time.

Surat Al Isra:(Glory to ((Allah)) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque(in Mecca) to the farthest Mosque (Al Aqsa in Jerusalem), whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things)).

Dear Marine please read the messages several times before replying back to understand whats happening.(it will stick in ur thing sometime)

So Arabs pray towards Jeruslaem, even tough it is not mentioned in the Kuran or it is not common practice. All Jews pray towards Jerusalem, not some of them. The Muslim's in Palestine are just trying to play the grab game. Grabbing at any arguement they can, no matter how absurd it is, to get international backing. (Funny Dija, this sounds a lot like what you are doing.)

If u know anything about islam u would know that we pray towards mecca, but at some time, Muslims used to pray towards jerusalem (the farthest moosque(al Aqsa)), and u would know that Jerusalem and its surrounding is a holy place for muslims according to the Holy Quran.
Surat Al Isra:(Glory to ((Allah)) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque(in Mecca) to the farthest Mosque (Al Aqsa in Jerusalem), whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things)).

If u know anything about christianity, Arab christians and christians from all over the world come to jerusalem to do their pilgrimage.

to Genius:
what i understand from ur last post is that u have to fall in love with Osama bin ladin and the alqaida network, u have to fall in love with the people who hate u (offcourse this is not the case of any christian based country, US is wellknown with its wars exploiting land and killing innocents).
well in my opinion and according to logic, ur case will never be achieved, because it is not meant to be achieved. Wars existed since humans occupied the earth. it is an instinct of people to fight each other although it is not desired by themselves.
would i understant that if someone killed ur whole family, u will love him and try to cure him.......the answer is NO. this is not how it works my friend. everyone who does something wrong must take his fair punishment. if he was'nt punished in his life he will in the day of judgement.

If you know anything about Islam you would know they pray towards Mecca, thus it is their Holly Land, Israel is not, it is the Jews Holly Land.

As for the Nativa Americans, they still do live here. And they didn't even assemble a government. They were highly unorganized and would have lead us no where.

i don't think that what the suicide bombers are doing is right, but thats obvious. i mean, they are hypocrites, they dont want ppl to kill innocent civilians, so they go out and kill innocent civilians, plus themselves. but i am definately not on the iraeli side either. they are just as bad, but i wont go into that. but MARINE, i am totally against what u said. i mean, so what if the israeli's pray towards jersulem and the muslim's dont? are u saying that because of this, only jewish ppl should live their? and u said that the jews were there longer. well, the native americans were here (in america) a lot longer than the white man, so lets get rid of all the white ppl, so that the native american's can live here. (im not saying that the natives americans shouldn't be here or anything like that). if only they could all live in peace, but i know that is too much to ask for from mankind.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

People sometimes call one mans terrorists another mans freedom fighter. Unlike the Palestinians, George washington never urged Americans to massacre civilians and destroy all places of worship, he never published textbooks promoting hatred of all Englishmen, he never depicted the UK as a facist horror that God wanted to destory, he never produced maps showing a Europe wiped clean of England.

Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital for over 3,000 years. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Islamic state.

Jews pray towards Jerusalem 3 times a day, Muslims pray towards mecca.

Jerusalem is mentioned in the Jewish Bible over 700 times. Jerusalem is mentioned in the Quran not even once.

Jews were occupying Israel 1800 years before hte birth of Islam.

Jews have maintained a presence in Israel since being exiled in 70 CE.

Arab nations attacked Isreal 2 times before there were any occupied territories.

The PLO was created before there were any occupied territories.

On average, less than one Palestinian has been injured per riot.

Rioters trow, in addition to rocks, molotov cocktails, grenades and fire rifles.

During Black September 2500 Palestinians were killed by Jordan in 10 days. At the current rate, it would take Israel 4 years to reach this number.

'Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them." Palestinian Authority Television. October 13, 2000.

And I bet all you anti-semetics still favor Palestine?

israelactivism.com

After struggling to understand your post, 1980, I can say that yes, we do want peace and no, we don't want to "take your souls", whatever that means. Sure we're not innocent, but neither are you. Bombing at teen dance club killing more than a hunderd teenagers sound familier to you? How about a bombing on Rosh Hasana, our New Year? Thanks, happy holidays to you too.

hi evry onr there i dont beleive my selve when i saw all those msg about palastene pepole wt can i say, u can see every thing from here so be with me in those picture first i now that all of u saw (mohamed el dora)and his father runing from those whos dosent have any marcy and heart they murdered him with no mercy,i saw ababy his brain was like no there was no brain so imagin with me this awful picture,naw i realy stoped from saying all those murders cause icant stand any more,u can see there ahunderd of childern that lost there father or there protheror they have no home 2 return in the night,so try to imagin with me those pictures and beleive there is more than that,so the qustion is can we stope all these things and palastine pepole takes ther home and countris?yes i think we can do it if we realy want we can do it,israel dosent want any peace with arabs pepole they want to take our countris our homs but they cant take our souls,they want arafat dead so they can destroy our strenght but how hard they do they never let us stop and let go we never do this we want give up no matter they do or did we sttil defend our case,israel can stope all this but they dosent want it simple is that,they dont want 2 live with palastine in pease no they wnt every thing and they never get it ever
thx and by...cairo.1980

THANK YOU! I'm glad to see specific references from the Qu'ran dealing with "justice"- although i do believe that justice and vengeance is God's alone. Nowhere does Jesus promote a person to such a thing- rather, he states: "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also." Luke 6:27-29. Furthermore: "Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also be merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven[...]" Luke 6:36-37. It appears that the excerpts you've taken from the Qu'ran continuously use the terms "fight" and "slay", as well as teach the lesson of "two wrongs make a right" ("If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him." 2:194) Jesus teaches peace when someone transgresses against you, rather than continuing the cycle. It isn't up to us to take care of revenge: "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19 (cross-reference: Deuteronomy 32:35 "To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence[...]). It's up to God.

so dear genius please revise ur quotes so that we do waste time.

Sorry for this late message , bu my internet was down for a while. well genius there is no 115th sura in the Koran and i checked the 15th surah there is nothing of what u said.and i didnt forgave for agreeing with u that the koran teaches violence against the people of the book, there is a misunderstanding here. this is what u wrote exactly:

I believe it's in Surah 15? 115? i'm not exactly sure... but it speaks of "The People of the Book"- that's Jews and Xns. eventually, it became an entirely separate religion, becuz it didn't succeed in the reformation of the two faiths. Furthermore, it was not meant for all people around the world, because it specifically directs Muslims to be at odds with "The People..Book". i can't respect that commandment.


so I forgave u because of ur ignorance about the word islam and muslims and the i defind them for u saying islam is submission to God and only God. when u raised the violence subject it was a different story and here is some quotes that contradicts what u say:
The second surat, Surat Albakara (the cow) verses 190, 191, 192, 193 and 194.
(190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

194. The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.)
and - The 109th surat, Surat Alkafiroon (the disbelievers) verses 1,2,3,4,5 and 6
(1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!

2. I worship not that which ye worship,

3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

6. To you be your Way, and to me mine.
)

and there is many other verses but i think this is enough to prove that the koran dont teach violence but teaches justice (there is a difference)

I don't think either side is right or wrong… I think it's a pretty sorry state altogether… I'll soon be learning about the Israeli/Palestine conflict in history so I'll wait till then to state my full thoughts on this as I know I will be properly informed.

Okay. i have no idea what you think i turned around, because i haven't turned anything around. The very 1st comment i made was that i did not agree with Surah 115 (i believe its 115) which dealt with Allah's command to be against the Ppl. of the Book. you said that you forgave me for not agreeing with violence. Then i said in my last message that maybe you agreed with the violence taught to Muslims. i haven't turned anything said around- review our past posts. I would gladly research the specific surah that i am drawing my conclusions from, except i don't have a Qu'ran right in front of me because i'm not Muslim, and i wouldnt have another holy book in my house. the knowledge i am using to speak to you about the surahs is strictly from memory of what i was taught in class (i am minoring in religion in school). If i have time to research it, then i'll post my info. My REAL point i'd like to make is that I AM CITING MY INFORMATION. you are not. if you are trying to argue a point, it's best to cite where you get your information from, so the people you are arguing/speaking with can verify your information.
About the Jesus never really dying on the cross--this statement made in your holy book is striving to completely undermine and falsify the entire basis of Christianity. That i cannot even consider as worthy to argue, i apologize.
About whether or not a man wrote all of this-- i already went over this in one of my earlier posts! please try and remember what i say, otherwise there's no point in me bothering to continue. I will cite this verse: "ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, (inspiration of God can be broken down to mean "God-breathed") AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, FOR REPROOF, FOR CORRECTION, FOR INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS." (2 Timothy 3:16-17). God doesn't make mistakes, but men do. God directed them to write, but their own humanity may have caused them to err. therefore, God-directed corrections are allowed! either way, the ssue is DIRECTLY ADDRESSED IN THE BIBLE.
When you say that Muhammed was the most influential man in history- first of all, i just finished saying that Jesus was; it's like YOU are turning things around on me! Where did you get that idea from? Am i supposed to simply accept that statement as true merely because one man says so (Michael Hart)? When we speak of the year, do we say "The year of the Prophet Muhammed 2002"? Or maybe our timeline is based on Muhammed's birth and death, as well as the basis of our constitution? I have no reason to believe that Muhammed is the world's most influential human being. Do you think so simply because Islam is the fastest growing religion? That's like me justifying Jesus' importance by saying "because Christianity has the highest number of believers". That's a total fallacy when making a statement. Dijja-"Mohamed was a father [...] Jesus didn't have these properties." No, he didn't. Jesus was sent here for only one purpose: to live a sinless life and then die to wash away all of humanity's sins. He was not meant to be a father, husband etc. How is that special? Doesn't that only strengthen the idea that Jesus was not just a man like everyone else?
All i'm saying is this: i understand you have your beliefs, and that's cool. I'm not sitting here wasting my time trying to convert you to Christianity (though that would be nice, haha). i respect the fact that we feel different ways, and just as i am wholeheartedly devoted to my faith, i am sure you are to yours as well. i'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions that people have about Christian teachings and texts, because a lot of times people say negative things WITHOUT ACTUALLY RESEARCHING THE RELIGION. The only reason why i'm even talking about all this Islam/Christianity stuff is because i've actually taken the time to learn about both (although my knowledge is obviously more indepth when it comes to Christianity). But to be fair, i guess no one REALLY knows until it's all over, that's all! All i know is that there is no reason to shun a religion that preaches 3 main ideas --> PEACE, HOPE AND LOVE. I have to question a religion that encourages otherwise (if you get my drift). ok, that's it, i'm done- thanks for your time~

Genius I don’t know why are u turning things around.(genius: Maybe you agree with the Surah that says to essentially make violence between Muslims and all others?) did I say that there is such a Sura, and if I didn’t, please give me the citation of it and from where did u get it, don’t tell me I heard from some one. If such a Sura exists, I don’t think Islam will be the most spreading religion as it is now.

(genius: Another HUGE thing that you said that really blew my mind was the part about Jesus not really dying on the cross (but some doppelganger in his place). I don't know where you got your info on that one from. I don't even know how to respond to it, because it is the most ludicrous statement i've ever heard in reference to Jesus (and a first!)). well I think I told this is in the koran and in islamic beliefs,. this shows me how ignorant u are about Islam.

u are giving me the bible citations , I mean why didn’t a man wrote all this, changed the script and u believed it (which is a fact), sorry but I cant believe a contradicting book that u say its God word because God is God as u said and doesn’t make mistakes. the bible has many contradictions.

(genius: Jesus as God's final messenger was prophecied in the Old Testament in Deuteronomy 18:15/18-20. God will raise up a prophet from among the Jews that will speak God's word.) well what I understand here that God and jesus were separate entities but u said:( First of all, the concept of the Trinity didn't come about until much later. What it means is ONE God represented to humanity in THREE ways.) now with the water, ice, vapor example I understand that they are the same entity. did jesus and the holy spirit detached from the one God (kidding). there is an inconsistency here.

how influential and central Jesus was in our world, well I respect that but also Mohammed was influential and many books were written about him. actually he is the most influential figure in human nature and this was scripted by the famous philosopher Michael Hart who was himself a Christian who compared the most influential people. Mohammed was the first , Jesus then followed. Mohamed was a father, a husband and a leader where Jesus didn’t have these properties.

in summary Muslims believe that the Koran is the non contradicting word of god as in the first verse of the first Sura says(Albakara (the Cow): This is the book without doubt, in it is guidance sure, to those who fear Allah).

Sorry it took so long to reply- I don't have access to a computer all the time. Ok, well, I need to respond to your post:
First of all, your arguments were a little difficult to understand because the majority of your sentences were either incomplete or run-on. I'll do my best to answer. The first thing i want to address is the Ppl. of the Book commandment (to be at odds). You say you forgive me for not agreeing with it, but I'm not sure what exactly you're forgiving me for. Maybe you agree with the Surah that says to essentially make violence between Muslims and all others? You are having an argument with me that says what you think Muslim beliefs are, yet you are not supporting your statements with citations from the Qu'ran. You've said that you too are using evidence-where? I've been citing the bible when making my points.
You also say our God is the same God. This is impossible: Jesus Christ never once said to make violence with one's fellow man. Quite the opposite, Jesus instructed people to love one another and turn away from violence (the well-known "turn the other cheek" teaching). "Recompense to no man evil for evil." (Romans 12:17). "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. [...] Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another." (1 John 4:7; 11). My God cannot be your god, when He says in the Bible: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [...] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16; 18). If Islam does not accept Jesus as the Son of God, but rather as just another prophet, then we do not worship the same God (John 5:23). Muslims are Muslims and not Jews or Christians BECAUSE they follow Muhammed, whereas Christians do not accept Muhammed as a holy man (but rather as a false prophet- Matthew 24:11; Jeremiah 14:14).
Another HUGE thing that you said that really blew my mind was the part about Jesus not really dying on the cross (but some doppelganger in his place). I don't know where you got your info on that one from. I don't even know how to respond to it, because it is the most ludicrous statement i've ever heard in reference to Jesus (and a first!).
On the issue where you overly dissected my words ("existing faiths"): maybe my point would have been received better if i merely said it differently- "existing religious sects". And no, i don't think God has different faiths. In fact, God doesn't have ANY faith- he's God. People, however, DO have more than one faith, and that was what i was talking about.
About the need for another messenger from God because the ppl. didn't accept Jesus: will humanity ever really completely accept God? How many messengers do you think God will send in order for ppl. to accept him? God doesn't need us to believe in Him in order for him to exist. Jesus as God's final messenger was prophecied in the Old Testament in Deuteronomy 18:15/18-20. God will raise up a prophet from among the Jews that will speak God's word. Those who don't listen will be condemned. In Acts 3:13-26, it states that the God of Abraham is the God who glorifies Jesus Christ, and specifically in verse 18 that this messenger will suffer and die (as Jesus did). In addition to this prophecy is Isaiah 53, which speaks of a man who suffers and dies for our transgressions and through that suffering redeems us all.
About going to heaven through Christ: this is why Jesus was God's final sign. In the times of Moses and Abraham, one got to heaven by being righteous in the Lord's eyes. This meant doing what pleased Him and following his laws. And yes, they did know the Messiah was coming (see all the prophecies in the OT like i mentioned earlier, as well as John 5:46-47), although when he came they didn't believe in him (this is where Jews and Chr. differ). And i'm sorry to say (once again, i didn't make up the rules i just explain them) that all those who do not believe in Jesus Christ are not going to heaven. Go back to John 3:18, as well as John 14:6- "Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME." The message is simple and direct. The newborn question is the one people tend to throw at Christians, and is the hardest to accept. What nonChristians need to understand is that no person is innocent-all are sinners. We were born with sin, and the only way to be justified is by accepting Christ. It's such a simple thing to do, but people insist on calling Christianity a faith that shuts out specific people from heaven. ANYONE can go to heaven by simply accepting Christ- it isn't selective or exclusive.
About "God being three". I know this is a big hangup in Islam, because it is also mentioned in one of the surahs (how Allah tells his followers that God being three is blasphemous and whatnot). Christians do not worship three gods. First of all, the concept of the Trinity didn't come about until much later. What it means is ONE God represented to humanity in THREE ways. Example: we all know water is water. But water can be liquid, solid and gas (water, ice and vapor). Does this make the concept of water any harder to grasp? God=Father(God), Son(Jesus), Holy Spirit(that which moves within us and directs us).
Lastly, on a completely different note- do people ever stop to think about how influential and central Jesus is in our world? He is the most written about figure who ever lived. He is responsible for the timeline we use ("in the year of the Lord" 2002). BC and AD (before they were changed to BCE and CE [before common era and common era]to be politically correct) were used based on Jesus' birth and death. The United States were based on Christianity (maybe that's why everyone hates Americans so much, i dont know). Jesus has been the most controversial figure in history.
SORRY THIS POST WAS SO LONG!

Sarcasim; ever heard of it???
i was being ironic toward another post- try reading some of them, if perspective is what you want.

I've been reading posts, and more of them talk about other people who posted contrasting views. I think it's idiotic to go calling people you don't even KNOW this and that. We all have different views on the post, and maybe no one's is wrong or right. You wonder why there are so many problems in the world!!! Look at the way we TALK and TREAT people! If we don't agree with them we say they're unintelligent, use profanity, and ramble on trying to prove a point. Even if someone is right, it doesn't matter because everyone deserves respect, and to think for themselves! It's one thing to disagree but to turn it into chidish and immature trash talk on an important issue is ridiculus! Some of you need to grow up!