quote:

Originally posted by mb20lover:
If all the people that said the Palestinians were right, they themselves are wrong, in more way than one. There is no longer a Palestine, and there for this has nothing to do with Palestians because there are none. And second of all, the what you call Palestinians are just plain mean. The Isralies have a right to that land, it was promised to them.

First of all, there are as many Palestinians living as there are Israelis and even though they expelled 5 million Palestinians in 1948 and continue to do so, the Palestinians are growing at a much faster rate than the Israelis are. I hold Palestinian citizenship, do not tell me Palestinians do not exist because that is completely absurd.
And who was it promised to them by? The British? Because Britain had as much right to promise someone else's land to a people as I do to promise you Canada.
Muslims from France are French, Christians from Canada are Canadian, same as Jews from Russia are Russian. The Jewish people did not need a Jewish state and certainly not one that was already inhabited by millions of people for hundreds of years.

Another thing, when the Jews where promised land in the middle east and a (debated) split of `Palestine` into Arabic and Jewish (Israel) states , as far as I have understood (possibly wrongly due to confusing and disparaging info), Israel has had continuous arms support from powerful countries, where as `Palestine` hasn`t (except for `Illegal` (as seen by UN and US) support), and just continuously has forcably taken and wanted more and more land from the Palestinians since the creation of the states. Personally, if the Labour government in Britain hadn`t used cheap tricks against the British Empire to win elections, forcing Britain out of the middle east (and subsequent collapse of what was left of the British Empire) then, as the British Mandate, many of these terrorist actions could have been avoided (atleast as actions between powerful/ly supported Arab nations and then recent atrocitised Jews and powerful US backers) eleviating already strained relations between Arab and Christian cultures and communities. (If your reading this in your head, you dont need to breathe! Sorry about the long winded punctuation!)

Does anyone have accurate info or knowledge on the exisence of a "Jewish solution" as derised by the then `G8` countries/Empires around the late 1800`s and why this sill wasnt implemented at the end of WWII? (Instead of the Palestine/Israel state debacle)
That of wich I speak is a little known plan which, as far as i am aware, was to be implemented if WWI never broke out, of granting, and relocating, Jews Madagascar as a home land (with exclusive rights to a middle eastern city? possibly Jerusalem?(birth land of the Jewish people/faith))

If you are interested in hearing diferent points of view I know a book that's really good: it's called "We just want to live here", the book is an exchange of letters between a Palestinian and an Israeli teenager. It's really good. You can order it on amazon.

First off, this is not my opinion, this is fact. Arafat was probably the terreroist of all terrorists, if you can not see that then you are truly blind! This is very true in the case of locutus 126, who is obviously extremely uninformed and ignorant on this issue. I am certainly not Israeli or Jewish, and have no ties to these people, so as an outside, unbiased onlooker, this is what I truly believe. I totally, 100% agree with streetspirit. He is obviously much more intelligent than you locutus, because you have not only been informed completely wrongfully, but you have taken it to the next step and actually posted your strong, misguided beliefs. This truly makes you a stupid man. Get your facts straight. And what acts of terrorism on Israel's behalf are you talking about? There are none. The arabs that have been killed by the Israeli military were all attacking Israel first. The so-called innocent people killed by Israel are in the way of the targeted Palestinian military installments when Israel does take action; unlike the inteneded innocent people that are targeted by the suicide bombers. Arabs are not evil, however entire generations of them have been misguided by their tyrranical diactators who have completely brainwashed them. Unfortunately, you have fallen into this category.

What does everyone think of the killing of Rantisi? Personally, I think he deserved it.

History lesson: In November 1947, the United Nations divided the state of Palestine, and under British mandate, the country was separated into Jewish and Arab states. Six months later the British withdrew, and in May 1948, the state of Israel was proclaimed. The neighboring Arab states of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Iraq rejected both the partition of Palestine and the existence of the new nation. In the war that followed (1948-1949), Israel emerged victorious and with its territory increased by one half. Arab opposition continued and full-scale fighting broke out again in 1956 (the Sinai campaign), 1967 (the Six-Day War), and 1973 (the Yom Kippur War). Israel emerged from these conflicts with large tracts of its neighbors' territories. In 1978, Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian President Anwar al-Sadat signed the Camp David Accords. A peace treaty between Egypt and Israel was signed (1979) in Washington, D.C., and Israel withdrew from the Sinai by 1982. Little progress was made, with respect to the Gaza Strip and West Bank, and in about 1981 Israel annexed the Golan Heights (captured from Syria in 1967). Israel's fierce, intermittent fighting with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in Lebanon led to a devastating Israeli invasion in 1982. Under an accord signed in 1998, Israel agreed to withdraw from additional West Bank territory, while the Palestinian Authority pledged to take stronger measures to fight terrorism. In the May 1999 elections, Labor returned to power under Ehud Barak, a former army chief of staff, who formed a coalition government. In September, Barak and Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader, signed an agreement to finalize their borders and to determine the status of Jerusalem within a year. By March 2000, Israel completed handing over additional West Bank territory; in May it withdrew from South Lebanon. Peace talks deadlocked in July, and in the fall a different cycle of violence basically erupted in the West Bank, Gaza, and Israel itself following Ariel Sharon's visit to the Haram esh-Sherif (the Temple Mount to Jews) in Jerusalem. In Feb. 2001 Sharon defeated Barak for the prime ministership. Sharon formed a broad national unity government and pursued a hard line with the Palestinians, leading to reoccupation of West Bank towns in 2002 in an attempt to end attacks against Israelis.

Palestine was an Arab state just like Lebanon, Syria, etc. The influx of Jews in the late 1940s contributed to the now occurring violence between the two peoples.

Try telling the Palestinians that they never had a country:Middle East Stats

Another note:

quote:

---

In 1917 the Balfour Declaration came out promising the land (referred to as) Palestine to the "Jews"

---

The Balfour Declaration was simply a British documnet that asserted the problem of the Jews not having a "permanent home;" thus, Palestine was under their mandate and could easily be changed into such:

"Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

'His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.'

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour"

Thought that was a bit of interesting information.

No Gem.

In 1917 the Balfour Declaration came out promising the land (referred to as) Palestine to the "Jews"

At this time the providence of Palestine belonged to the Ottoman Empire.

In December of that year Gen. Sir Edmund Allenby captures Jerusalem from Ottomans for the British. Where it is them referred to as, the British Mandate.

March 22, 1945 the "League of Arab States" grants Palestine a "special" annex, and representation in the League.

Nov. 29, 1947 UN Partition Resolution (GA 181) - Palestine was to be divided into a Jewish State and an Arab State; Jerusalem was to be internationalized. Arab countries and Arab league refuse to recognize the resolution.

May 15, 1948 Israel War of Independence (1948 War). Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State; British leave Palestine.

Up until now, Palestine was only a providence of the Ottoman empire and the British empire.
It was never recognized as an official state, because it never gained diplomatically, or my force, independency from either the Ottoman (Turks) or the British.

The closest there ever was to a Palestinian state was in July 10, 1948. Arab League announced the establishment of a temporary Palestinian civilian administration over Arab held-areas of Palestine, but it was never implemented.

quote:

---

Actually, there was never a Palestine.

---

Actually, Palestine did exist until 1948, until "Israel" was formed - rather the name was changed by the influx of Jews fleeing from Europe as a result of their persecution.

quote:

---

There is no longer a Palestine

---

Actually, there was never a Palestine.

If all the people that said the Palestinians were right, they themselves are wrong, in more way than one. There is no longer a Palestine, and there for this has nothing to do with Palestians because there are none. And second of all, the what you call Palestinians are just plain mean. The Isralies have a right to that land, it was promised to them.

quote:

---

i totlay agree there is enough land for the 2 cultures. yse there is gonna be disaregeements but they'll just have to get over themsevles and work thought it

---

Israel is the size of Rhode Island. Imagine Rhode Island being two countries. Yeah, that's right, no room. You can drive the width of Israel in 1.5 hours.

But, you're right, if it bring peace then anything's worth it. However, this isn't so much about the land. Believe me, the palis would've gotten their land long ago if it weren't for Arafat. No one seems to remember this, but less than three years ago, Netanyahu (or was it Bibi or Sharon? I forget) offered Arafat all the land he wanted: the west bank, gaza strip, golan hights... ALL the land he wanted. But Arafat said no. And you know why? Because he wants ALL of Israel. ALL of it. So there's no room left for the Israelis. That's his goal, and you know what happened after he said no? ALl the suicide bombings started. Can there be peace with a man like this? Of course not. So basicly, the problem is not land. It's Arafat.

I love israel, ive beenm there once, its my homeland(not physically but...mentally i gues? i dunno how 2 describe it) well i dont agree with wat it doesn even though i luv it, but i dont agree w/ palestine either. y cant they just try 2 agrree?

Who are really to blame? Read this from Fair.org

August 22, 2003
The deadly bus bombing in Jerusalem on August 19 was foreshadowed by a
pair of suicide attacks a week earlier which killed two Israeli civilians.
While U.S. media tended to portray these attacks as a return to violence
after a relatively peaceful period, there were numerous killings in the
weeks leading up to the suicide bombings that underscore the lack of
evenhanded attention given to loss of life in the Israeli/Palestinianconflict.
When the two Palestinian suicide bombers each killed an Israeli civilian
along with themselves on August 12, U.S. news outlets immediately depicted
the attacks as an apparent resurgence in Mideast violence. "Summer truce
shattered in Israel," announced CBS (8/12/03), while NBC (8/12/03)
reported that "the attacks broke more than a month of relative silence."
The Los Angeles Times (8/13/03) wrote that the bombings "broke a six-week
stretch during which the people of this war-weary land had enjoyed
relative quiet."
During this six-week period of "relative quiet," however, some 17
Palestinians were killed and at least 59 injured by Israeli occupation
soldiers and settlers, according to the Palestine Red Crescent Society.
The dead included Mahmoud Kabaha, a four-year-old boy, who was sitting in
the back seat of a jeep with his family at a checkpoint when an Israeli
soldier shot him dead-- in a spray of bullets that the army simply called
an "accidental burst of gunfire" (Associated Press, 7/25/03).

In order to convey the Mideast crisis in all its complexity, journalists
need to take seriously the violence suffered by all communities.
References to "relative calm" while Palestinians are being routinely
killed only serve to trivialize human life and obscure the cycle of
violence that afflicts the region.

i totlay agree there is enough land for the 2 cultures. yse there is gonna be disaregeements but they'll just have to get over themsevles and work thought it

giggle

The way we're arguing about it is a part of the problem! I'm as guilty of this as anyone else, but having Jewish and Arab friends has taught me a little bit about the situation. No one is "to blame". Everyone just wants to know that they can get up in the morning without having their house blown up or bulldozed. Everyone thinks they can get this security by fighting so hard that the other side gives up. Except that doesn't work b/c the other side has the same mentality. When you tell an Israeli and a Palestinian that both sides are to blame, they're going to stop listening because no one wants to be considered wrong even if someone else is equally wrong. So the first step is to quit asking who's at fault. Next, we decide whats the best outcome. If possible, both sides should get a state. If only one can have that, it should be Israel because there are only a few million Jews in the world and they have nowhere else to go, while the Palestinians can go to other Arab countries.
And with either solution we place sanctions on Jordan, Lebanon, etc. if they keep up their ridiculous discrimination against Palestinian immigrants.
We should aim for the first outcome I listed but support the second if the 1st is impossible.

*shakes head and flips to the U.S.*
Let's start here. We're all over in other countries so I think someone should start here.

and ONCE AGAIN, history repeats itself.
I GIVE UP ON THEM!
I'll focus on a part of the world that can really be helped.
*Looks hopelessly at Israel/Palestine map in geography book and flips page to other middle eatern areas*

quote:

---

how can you say that you are christian and then say that the bible is not accurate?

---

and one more thing. DON'T SAY I SAID SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T!!! I am religiously sensitive and PURPOSEFULLY DIDN'T say what you are accusing me of!

Read my post. I only said (several times even!) that it hasn't been proven. Would you use a quote from a greek myth as being accurate if it wasn't proven? I hope not!

It's amazing the way you turned words against me that I never even used...

quote:

---

"Questioning validity is not denying plausibility" -conservakid

---

do you think that someone just got bored one day and decided that they wanted to make up all the stories of the bible to lead people astray?

umm, yup. What more proof do you need then the crusades or the thousand upon thousand of masacres and deaths at the hands of tyranical leaders who were God fearing?

i believe in God and the bible, i have had the experiences to prove it...check your resources before you make claims!

I've checked mine, they say nothing in the Bible is proven other then places and a few people. Yes I can back every word I just said.

What experiences have you had...before you make claims?