I now see the error of my thinking. Escalation of violence is the only solution!!!!!!! We must kill off the enemy, and fight fire with fire.... even if all that remains is ashes and rubble. I would be angry too if, today, the british invaded my home, sold it to my neighbors who in turn made me live in the garage where they park all thier cars.
I'd feel like I was on the moral high ground in that instance, and laugh in thier face, and not use it to justify another life.It seems that both sides have there reasons to fight; I guess I could never understand them. India gained its independence not fighting violently, but fighting morally and standing up for human rights. Pacifism...... I guess is a stand that neither side wants to take.

Remember in Gandhi, when he told the the Hindu to take in a Muslim son, after his son was shot by Muslims; that was a powerful message to the world.

ok first of all, the people in afghanistan who were protecting bin laden really stink bad. they started the war toward us and we are gonna show them whose country rocks the most!!! i dont appreciate what those people are doing to our soliders or our families. alot of people had to go to war to fight those stupid people and stay over there for a while. its not fair how easy they got away with some of the things they did. god bless the soliders over there!

Sinope it is very naive. If your land was stolen by the british and given to a group, and then you were moved to s slum area or hut village, and then your village was attacked repeatedly, and all of the neighboring areas, and then you were banned from certain areas of the city and then your government was attacked by a terrorist government and the mossad was watching you and a butcher who burnt down those villages became ruler of the country, I'm sure you would be quite angered.

After reading these posts, i feel more involved in the situation than before, and can't help but get a sense that i really have no say on this issue.
-shortyo,I agree with you. I think that Bush administration is stupid for taking a side, while simutaniously saying, "peace... peace... peace this and that", and ironically looking like the biggest hypocrits. We should stay nuetral and objective. It's the only intelligent side to take.
To both sides, and all fighting nations: Einstein said it best.... "Peace can not reached by force, but achieved through understanding." I hope this doesn't come across as naieve.

Peace is absoultly not possible until those two pigs sharon and arafat step down. Honestly! They are so over the hill they can't even see it anymore. No one with that much stupidity should be leading a country least not two countries that have been fighting with one another for thousands of years. And ireal's consant presuit of more land really dosen't help the situation. Sharon isn't hittler but he going down that path. Palestine is turning into a gehtto that is exactly like warsaw or dora. absolutly ludicris. They both won't have peace until they blow eachother up or learn to stop blambing each other.

I've been following the middle east conflict ever since the intifada back then in 2000. I researched and digged all the way back to the early 1950's. This conflict have been going on for over 50 years, and it's only gotten worst. If you look at the history, there have been many chances of peace in Israel. All the past prime ministers and Palestinian leaders have been all crooked. Yassar Arafat is also somewhat an untrustworthy and paranoid leader. He could of gotten peace in the camp david 2 accords. They were that close to restoring peace with President Clinton, and Yassar Arafat just delayed and delayed and soon after rejected the peace plan. I don't think peace will ever happen in this place. Jimmy Carter tried...and failed. President Clinton tried....and failed. And soon after my favorite president George W. Bush will fail. That's just the fact that we have to deal with. This conflict is really getting sad.

when i read ur profile marine , i read that people rememeber u with ur 'intelligence'. man ur fu*****G dumn.

I'm not Jewish, or Muslim, but I do agree w/ you Snatch. Even if us non-Jewish and non-Muslim people are supposedly 'not bias', we are, whether we want to admit or not.

alot of people ive talked to dont seem to understnad just how DEEP the Israelee-Palestinian conflict is and how far back it goes. its not something thats going to go away qucikly, no matter how much we want it to. It's more than just two countries fighting each other, its 2 religions arguing over who gets 'custody' of Jerusalem, which is a holy city in both religions. the whole reason the most recent outbreak of violence took place is b/c Ariel Sharron violated the Dome of the Rock's worship schedule and entered the building when Muslims were praying there. although this is a lame excuse 2 shoot somebody, i have 2 say that i can understand how the arabs wouldve been offended by this. both faiths have equal rights 2 b n jerusalem, but until they can come to sort of religious/state agreement on this, i think we can expect the fighting 2 continue. the bottom line is, they're not gonna stop fighting, let alone hating each other, until theres nothing left for them 2 fight over.

Locutus, think we should stop funding Israel. Suprise suprise. He thinks we should break our promise to help Israel. He thinks America should tear up the contract that promises them our support. He will say anythin, no matter how drastic, even if he doesn't believe in it, simply to show off that he is anti=government.

If we stop funding Israel the Arabs will invade Israel and kill every single Jew living there. They will even kill the Arabs living there for supoorting Israel. You are the one who complains about 'america killing civilians in vietnam'. Yet you want us to kill even more civilians by turning our backs on Israel.

I would like to once again, bring up that Israel has never done anything to contradict the Genevea Convention. Some of you think otherwise but provide me with no proof that Israel has ever been held accountable for a war crime.

The Arabs living around Israel are lucky Israel has not conquered their land. But do not worry, one day Israel will rule the Middle East, and no russian-equipped army will be able to contain them.

Once again I bring up that you can not say Israelies are terrorists because they remain loyal to the rules of war, unlike the Arabs.

Well in the most part, peace in the Middle East right now is uncertain. The Israelis lead by Ariel Sharon, seems like they don't want peace, because if they did, the airstrike that happened this week that killed a Hamas leader and his family would not had happened. I read in the N.Y Times, that before that attack, a peace plan was about to happen, and the Hamas terroist organization were willing to settle for peace, but now they are out for Israeli blood. They said that revenge and attacks are going to happen real soon againt the Israeli. This whole Mid-East violence is getting to the point where I don't even want to pick up the newspaper or watch the news about this. It's just sad what's going on over there, I can't imagine how the people are living through that and especially the kids, they also have to live through all this violence. I just hope in the near end, that there will be some kind of a miracle and end this violence in the Mid-East.

well I want to ask how did u decide that there was no other need for God to send another messenger. this will be the case if the majority of the people followed the messenger and stop sinning only a minority followed Jesus (PBUH) (when he was on earth) . the Romans tortured and harmed , they were about to kill him but God saved him and raised him to the heavens. the man who was crossed (in Islam) is the man who told the Romans about the place of Jesus, and God disguised him giving him the same face of Jesus, where the people thought he was Jesus (except his followers).
so from here I think there was a need for another messenger (even if it is the case in Christianity that Jesus was crossed. people didn’t accept him and sinned ,i.e there is a need for another messenger).
Secondly it was not Mohammed’s intent to reform already existing faiths . it was God’s intent to reveal the Quran where it is a continuation and a correction of the other holy books as they were changed (fabricated) and God knows more. U are saying already existing faiths , do u think God have more than one faith. it must be only ONE. and as u said and have read that in the Quran , it mentions the people of the book, (not the faith) those people who deviated from and changed the holy books. u also said that the Quran specifically directs Muslims to be at odds with "The People..Book" and u don’t respect this commandment; well I forgive u about this and unfortunately many people like u don’t understand or know the meaning of Islam.
the simple definition of Islam is : submission to God and only God. the word Muslim comes from the word Islam. a real Muslim (by actions not by name) is a person who is submitted to God who worship him and only him, who believes in his holy books , who believes in all his messengers etc….

Moses , Jesus and all the meseengers from before (PBUT) worshiped God didn’t they So they are Muslims as described in the Quran. u think muslims are only the followers of Muhammed (PBUH), well yes we follow him but we worship God and we believe in all his messengeres. we are not called Muhammedians we are Muslims.
I am following the same rules as u :*Everything that I am saying (when making an argument) is not just my opinion- I back up my words with evidence; I hold God's Word as law and that's my proof. I didn't make the rules i'm just arguing for them.
*Genius 2002*
in the bible it says that people will only go to heaven if they believed in Jesus (Christians), well what about Moses followers Abraham’s followers and all the other messengeres’ followers , they didn’t know that Jesus was coming did they? and what about a new born , a non Jew , non Christian and a non Muslim (simply with no religion) ,when he grow up , he wants to find the truth , well he cant convert to Judaism if his mother is a non Jew. will his intelligence say that God is three , will he accept to worship Jesus the son of Mary the pure who was sent by God .

and about Birnaba bible , Birnaba is one of Jesse’s loyal postals (PBUH), im not sure about his name in English, well I know my evidence in this field is week but u can check it on the web, there is loads of information about it, u can take a look.

Well, buffy, thats a crock. Hope does nothing, action does eerything. Call your senator and demand that the US stop aiding israel's terrorist action, or better yet go to that region and give humanitarian aid. Sitting here whining and hoping in your overprivleeged life with your friends of the MTV generation will do nothing.

Yes you can hope for peace and please do. The more you think about something happening the more chance it might happen. At least thats what I've been told.

okay well- first to ArtisticKnowledge: i'm not sure why that comment was directed towards me, since what you were correcting me on was what i basically said. just reread what i wrote. secondly, to snatch41- you have an extremely condescending attitude towards everyone (which by what you have been saying is very poorly misdirected) and no one likes a wisea$$. another thing- you think that "saying jews and muslims have biased attitudes" is racist? how does that deal with race? it's not like that person said "all jews and muslims are dirty" or something. get a grip. and by saying that we all think that this is just some political squabble- maybe you haven't been following everyone's commentary, but thus far, all talk has been mainly religious. it seems everything you are saying is just the opposite. i DO have an opinion on the matter, and unlike yours, mine is based on evidence rather than opinion. who needs to "get a ****in clue" but you?
and just one thing to dijja (and forgive me if it seems confrontational, becuz i don't mean it to be):
Jesus was God's last messenger/sign. After him, there was no other need for God to send another messenger (Mohammed). Perhaps if you've read the texts that i have read on the subject (used strictly for teaching purposes and not opinion essays), you may find that Mohammed's initial intent on "revealing" the Qu'ran was to reform already existing faiths (mainly Christianity and Judaism). I believe it's in Surah 15? 115? i'm not exactly sure... but it speaks of "The People of the Book"- that's Jews and Xns. eventually, it became an entirely separate religion, becuz it didn't succeed in the reformation of the two faiths. Furthermore, it was not meant for all people around the world, because it specifically directs Muslims to be at odds with "The People..Book". i can't respect that commandment. ALSO: about your assertion that this "Birnaba Bible"...where is your proof to back up this statement? i've never heard of this book and i strongly doubt the validity of that statement. Just because it's being held in the Vatican does not justify it's truth as the real Bible. I personally don't put any stock into the Vatican, since it is a man-made church and not Godsent.
*Everything that I am saying (when making an argument) is not just my opinion- I back up my words with evidence; I hold God's Word as law and that's my proof. I didn't make the rules i'm just arguing for them. If anyone has any questions about Christianity or its beliefs feel free to ask me.

No. If you could understand, then you would have understood long ago that there can't be peace between our two countries. We Jews know it, and the Palestinian Muslims know it. It's the rest of the world saying "kiss and make up" and it won't happen. You say I'm biased? The only way I'm biased is that I hope the Israeli's win. I understand the Palestinians. I have to. I respect the Palestinian people. I don't respect Palestinian terrorist tactics, and I don't respect Yasser Arafat. Saying that all Jews and Palestinians have a biased opinion on the matter is somewhat racist to me. You people think that this is just some political conflict over territory...and that's just fine because that's all anyone's told you. But any Jew or Muslim can tell you there's more to it than that. So...if you're done pretending to have a ****ing clue, we can all be quiet and go for tea and lunch.

Ok i wanted to give my opinion on a couple of things
-First, I do think that we, non jewish, non muslims, from other parts of the world, that are not Israel, or anywhere close to, can contribute to the forum.
Im very sorry if Israelites, or persons close to the conflict have felt irrespected because we are talking about their problems. You have a great point: you know what is going on, yet you think your side is right, while others who are not close to the conflict can be more objective.

AcerRacer I read the article on the web page. I don’t think it’s a very objective article, and I don’t think that the writers are fair in their exposition. It seems that they only heard the part of the story where Palestinian´ Arabs seemed to be the bad guys. They never mention Jewish terrorism, and they compare everything to the conflict between the US and al-Qaeda, which in my opinion is a different thing. To me it seems that they are touching this soft spot to try to make readers agree with the Israelite Jews.

“On the one side are the forces of mysticism, medieval tribalism, dictatorship—and terror; on the other side are the forces of reason, individualism, capitalism—and civilization. Arafat and his sympathizers hate Israel for the same reason that Osama bin Laden and his sympathizers hate America, i.e., for embracing secular, Western values. No "peace process" is possible with such enemies.”
-These are different cultures. I don’t think that it is a problem of values and philosophies. Its kind of harsh to address the Muslims as the ones with the forces of mysticism, medieval tribalism, dictatorship, and terror, just because terrorist groups have set this impression through their acts, This is a group bigger than a terrorist organization. And it is a conflict deeper than something like being against western values… Also the peace proccess has been stopped by both sides and because of different causes.


“As to the rightful owners of particular pieces of property, Israel's founders—like the homesteaders in the American West—earned ownership to the land by developing it. They arrived in a desolate, sparsely populated region and drained the swamps, irrigated the desert, grew crops and built cities. They worked unclaimed land or purchased it from the owners. They introduced industry, libraries, hospitals, art galleries, universities-and the concept of individual rights.”
-Israel’s founders were not the only ones to shape up this land and make it what it is today, for more than a thousand of years the land was ruled by Arabs, who I am sure contributed, in their own way, to the advance of the territory too.

"If there is a moral failing on Israel's part, it consists of its reluctance to take stronger military measures"
-Wow, thats a strong statement to make, it seems kind of radical and extremist.

"Like any victim of aggression, Israel has a moral right to control as much land as is necessary to safeguard itself against attack"
-I dont agree with this. If im being attacked at my house, can I go and rule over all of my neighbors houses to protect myself? Its a logical thing to do, byt certainly not fair, and for me, not morally correct.

I want to say that im not taking sides on the conflict. Im just posting my opinion of an article that i do think is taking sides in an unfair way. This conflict is very complex and i dont think that most of us understand it completely, wed have to be part of it to understand it.

Bye, 0Shorty0. (open to objective and mature discussion)

p.s:*Isnt it ironic that the United States is the principal country pressuring Israel’s Jews and Palestinian Arabs to make peace but at the same time they give aid and armament to the Israelites?

Genius-- I'd just like to correct you on one little thing.... The bible wasn't written by unperfect people that had inspiration, it was WRITTEN by "unperfect" people, but it was GOD'S words going into the Bible. God told them what to write.

Snatch-- Just because people aren't Jewish, doesn't mean they don't know anything about the Torhan. Anyone can go and learn about it if they want to. Also, people can (if they want) understand what's going on in Palestine and Isreal. They can and they will. Your not God, so how can you say "no one can and ever will"?

Here are my views summed up in an article i found on a website.

This article can be found at


Moral Right

EDveryone can take it easy now. We have an expert on Holy history, Dija. She appears to know everything about Islam, Catholism and the Hebrew Religion. So any questions about any holly scriptures, regardless of religion, should be directed towrds Dija.

By the way, I was being sarcastic. Stop acting like you know everything about religion because it impresses no one and does nothing to form an a valid arguement on this post.