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Registered: February 28, 2002
Posts: 106
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Following are just a few of the many massacres committed by Jewish-Zionist terrorists, notably by the Zionist Hagana, Irgun and Stern Gang groups. Don't expect any Hollywood films highlighting any of these massacres: Baldat al-Shaikh 31.01.1947 Mansurat al Khayt 18.01.1948 Sa'Sa'a Village 14.02.1948 Qisarya 15.02.1948 Wadi 'Ara 27.02.1948 Abu Kabeer Village 31.03.1948 Dair Yasin 10.04.1948 Irgun 254 Nasir ad Din, Khirbet 12.04.1948 Hawsha 15.04.1948 Al Wa'ra Al-Sawda 18.04.1948 Haifa 21.04.1948 Husayniyya 21.04.1948 Ayn az Zaytun 02.05.1948 Bayt Daras 11.05.1948 Burayr 12.05.1948 Khubbayza 12.05.1948 Abu Shusha 14.05.1948 Al Kibri 21.05.1948 Al Tantoura 21.05.1948 Qazaza 09.07.1948 Lydda 10.07.1948 El-Led 11.07.1948 Al Tira 16.07.1948 Ijzim 24.07.1948 Beer Sheba 21.10.1948 Isdud 28.10.1948 Al Dawayima 29.10.1948 Jish 29.10.1948 Majd al Kurum 29.10.1948 Safsaf 29.10.1948 Sa'sa 30.10.1948 Saliha 30.10.1948 Arab al Samniyya 30.10.1948 Aylabon Village 30.10.1948 Al-Ba'na / Dair Al-Asad 31.10.1948 Al Khisas 18.12.1948 Qibya 14.10.1953 Qalqalya Village 10.10.1956 Kufr Qasim 29.10.1956 Khan Younes 03.11.1956 Khan Younes 12.11.1956 Sabra & Shatila Camps 16.09.1982 Oyon Qara 20.05.1990 Al-Aqsa Mosque 08.10.1990 Ebrahime Mosque 25.02.1994 Qana 18.04.1996
(there have been more but the doc I have dates back to 1996)
List of Palestinian Localities destroyed after the creation of the State of Israel (1948):
District of al-Quds (Jerusalem): 37 localities Al-Jura (420) - [Ora] Al-Maliha (1940) - [Manahat] Al-Qabu (260) Al-Qastal (90) Al-Walaja (1650) - [Amminadav] Allar (x) Aqqur (40) Artuf (350) - [Naham/Har Tuv] Beit Itab (540) Beit Mahsir (2400) - [Beit Me'ir] Beit Naqquba (240) - [Beit Neqofa] Beit Thul (260) Beit Umm al-Meis (70) Bureij (720) Deir al-Hawa (60) Deir ash-Sheikh (220) Deir Rafat (430) Deir Yasin (610) - [Kefar Shaul] Deiraban (2100) - [Mahseya] Ein Karim (3180) - [Ein Kerem] Ishwa (620) - [Eshta'ol] Islin (260) Jarash (190) Kasla (280) - [Kesalon] Khirbet al-Lauz (450) Khirbet al-Umur (270) Khirbet Deir Amr (10) - [Etanim] Khirbet Ismallah (20) Khirbet Nataf (40) Lifta (2550) - [Me-Neftoah] Qaluniya (910) - [Mevassert Jerushal.] Ras Abu Ammar (620) Sar'a (340) Saris (560) - [Shoresh] Sataf (450) Suba (620) - [Zova] Sufla (60)
District of al-Khalil (Hebron): 15 localities Ajjur (3730) Al-Qubeiba (1060) - [Lakhish] Barqusiya (330) Beit Jibrin (2430) - [Beit Guvrin] Beit Nattif (2150) - [Netiv B"L] Deir ad-Dubban (730) Deir Nakhkhas (600) Kidna (450) Mughallis (540) Ra'na (190) Tall as-Safi (1290) Zakariya (1180) - [Kefar Zekharya] Zeita (330) Zikrin (960) Ad-Dawayima (3710) - [Amazya]
District of Gaza: 45 localities Al-Faluja (4670) Al-Jiya (1230) - [Ge'a] Al-Jura (2420) - [Ashkelon] Al-Masmiya al-Kabira (2510) - [Mashmia' Shalom] Al-Masmiya al-Saghira (530) - [Kefar Ha-Rif] Al-Muharraqa (580) As-Sawafir al-Gharbiya (1030) - [Merkaz Shapira] As-Sawafir ash-Shamaliya (680) As-Sawafir ash-Sharquiya (960) - [En Zurim] Barbara (2410) - [Mavqi'im] Barqa (890) - [Gan Yavne] Batani al-Gharbi (980) - [Azriqam] Batani ash-Sharqi (650) Beit Affa (700) - [Yad Natan] Beit Daras (2750) Beit Jirya (940) Beit Tima (1060) Bi'lin (180) Bureir (2740) Deir Suneid (730) Dimra (520) - [Erez] Haj (810) Hamama (5010) - [Ashqelon-Barnea] Hatta (970) - [Rewaha] Hirbiya (2240) - [Karmiya] Huleiqat (420) Ibdis (540) Iraq al-Manshiya (2010) Iraq Suweidan (660) Isdud (4630) Jaladiya (360) - [Zeharya] Julis (1030) - [Hodiya] Juseir (1180) - [Menuha] Karatiya (1370) Kaufakha (500) Kaukaba (680) - [Kokhav] Khirbet al-Khisas (150) Najd (620) Ni'iliya (1310) Qastina (890) Summeil (950) - [Nahala] Sumsum (1290) Tall al-Turmus (760) - [Arugot] Yasur (1070)
District of Tulkarm: 10 localities Kafr Saba (1270) - [Kefar Saba] Kh. al-Jalama (70) - [Lahavot Haviva] Kh. al-Manshiya (260) -[Giv'at Hayyim] Khirbet Beit Lid (460) - [Nordiya] Khirbet Zalafa (210) - [Giv'at Hayyim] Miska (880) Qaqun (1970) - [Yikkon] Tabsar (x) - [Ra'anana] Kafr Saba (1270) ' [Kefar Sava] Umm Khalid (970) - [Netanya]
District of Ramleh: 54 ocalities A.. Fadl as-Sautariya (x) - [Talme Menashe] Abu Shusha (870) Al-Barriya (510) - [Azarya] Al-Burj (480) Al-Haditha (760) - [Hadid] Al-Kheima (190) Al-Kuneisiya (40) Al-Latrun (390) Al-Mansura (90) Al-Mughar (1740) Al-Mukheizin (200) - [Yad Binyamin] Al-Muzeiri'a - [Mazor] Al-Qubab (1980) - [Kefar Bin Nun] Al-Qubeiba (1720) - [Kefar Gebirol] Al-Tira (1290) - [Bareqet] Aqir (2480) - [Qiryat Eqron] At-Tina (750) Bash**** (1620) - [Aseret] Beit *** (550) - [Har'el] Beit Nabala (2310) - [Beit Nehemya] Beit Shanna (210) Beit Susin (210) - [Ta'oz] Bir Ma'in (510) Bir Salim (x) - [Nezer Sereni] Burfiliya (730) Daniyal (410) - [Kefar Daniel] Deir Abu Salama (60) Deir Aiyub (320) Deir Muheisin (460) Deir Tarif (1750) - [Beit Arif] Idhnibba (490) Innaba (1420) Jilya (330) Jimzu (1510) - [Gimzo] Jindas (x) - [Ginnaton] Kharruba (170) Khirbet adh-Dhuheiriya (100) Khirbet al-Buweira (190) Khulda (280) - [Mishmar David] Majdal Yaba (1520) - [Rosh Ha-Ayin] N... (1470) Nabi Rubin (1420) Qatra (1210) - [Gedera] Qazaza (940) Qula (1010) Sajad (370) Salbit (510) - [Shal'avim] Sarafand al-Amar (1950) Sarafand al-Kharab (1040) - [Nes Ziona] Seidun (210) Shahma (280) - [Qidron] Shilta (100) Yibna (5420) - [Yavne] Zarnuqa (2380)
District of Jaffa: 19 localities Al-Haram (520) - [Reshef] Al-Kheiriya (1420) Al-Mirr (170) - [Kefar Ha-Baptistim] Al-Yahudiya (5650) - [Yehud] As-Safiriya (3070) Beit Dajan (3840) - [Beit Dagan] Biyar Adas (300) - [Ganne Am] Fajja (1200) - [Petah Tikva] Jalil (470) - [Gelilot] Jammasin (1810) - [Tel Aviv] Kafr Ana (2800) - [Neve Efrayim] Rantiya (590) - [Nofekh] Salama (6670) - [Kefar Shalem] Saqiya (1100) - [Or Yehuda] Sheikh Muwannis (1930) - [Ramat Aviv] Yazur (4030) - [Azor]
District of Haifa: 45 localities ? Ein Ghazal (2170) - [Ofer] Abu Shusha (720) - [Mishmar Ha'Emeq] Abu Zureiq (550) - [Nahala'ot] Al-Buteimat (110) - [Regavim] Al-Kafrin (920) Al-Khureiba (x) Al-Mansi (1200) - [Midrakh Oz] Al-Mazar (210) Al-Tira (5270) Al-Waraqani (x) - [Kefar Barukh] An-Naghnaghiya Ar-Rihaniya (240) - [Ein Ha-Emeq] As-Sarafand (290) - [Zerufa] As-Sindiyana (1250) - [Ammiqam] Balad ash-Sheikh (1420) - [Tel Hanan] Bureika (29) - [Zikhron Ya'akov] Daliyat ar-Ruha (280) - [Ramot Menashe] Ein Haud (650) - [En Hod] Ghubaiya at-Tahta (1130) - [Mishmar Ha'Emeq] Ijzim (2970) - [Kerem Maharal] Jaba (1140) Jalama (x) Kafr Lam (340) - [Ha-Bonim] Khirbet ad-Damun (340) Khirbet al-Burj (x) Khirbet al-Majdal (x) - [Sede Yitzhaq] Khirbet al-Manshiya (260) Khirbet al-Mansura Khirbet Qumbaza (x) Khirbet Umm ad-Daraj (x) Khubbeiza (290) - [Even Yitzhaq] Lidd (Al-Awwadim) (640) Qannir (750) Qira wa Qamun (410) - [Yoqne'am] Qisariya (960) - [(Caesarea)] Sabbarin (1700) - [Ammiqam] Tantura (1490) - [Dor / Nahsholim] Umm ash-Sha'uf (480) - [Giv'at Nili] Umm az-Zinat (1470) Wadi Ara (230) - [Barqai] Yajur (610) - [Nesher]
District of Akka (Acre): 25 localities
Ad-Damun (1310) Al-Bassa (2950) - [Shelomi] Al-Birwa (1460) - [Ahihud] Al-Ghabisiya (690) Al-Kabri (1530) - [Kabri] Al-Mansura (360) Amqa (1240) - [Amqa] An-Nahr (610) Ar-Ruweis (330) As-Sumeiriya (760) - [Regba] At-Tall Az-Zib (1910) - [Gesher Ha-Ziv] Deir al-Qasi (1250) - [Elqosh] Iqrit (490) Kafr I'nan (360) Khirbet Ja'atun (x) Khirbet Samah (360) Kuweikat (1050) - [Beit Ha-Emeq] Manshiya (1080) Mi'ar (770) Nabi Rubin (1420) - [Even Menachem] Suhmata (1130) - [Zuri'el] Suruh (x) Tarbikha (1000) - [Shomera] Umm al-Faraj (800) - [Ben Ammi]
District of Nazareth: 4 localities ? Indur (620) Al-Mujeidil (1900) -[Migdal Ha-Emeq] Ma'lul (690) Saffuriya (4330) - [Zippori]
District of Jenin: 6 localities Al-Lajjun (1103) - [Megiddo] Al-Mazar (270) Ein al-Mansi (90) Khirbet al-Jaufa (x) Nuris (580) - [Nurit] Zir'in (1420) - [Yizre'el]
District of Beisan (Beth Shean): 22 localities Al-Ashrafiya (230) - [Sheluhot] Al-Bira (260) Al-Hamidiya (220) - [Hamadya] Al-Murassas (460) As-Samiriya (x) - [Sede Terumot] At-Taqa (x) At-Tira (150) - [Gazit] Danna (190) Farwana (330) Hakimiya (520) Jabbul (250) Kafra (430) Kaukab al-Hawa (300) - [(Belvoir)] Khirbet al-Mazar (x) Khirbet az-Zawiya (x) Khirbet Umm Sabuna (x) Khirbet Umm Sarhan (x) Khirbet Zab'a (1931:143) - [Doshen] Qumiya (440) - [Ein Harod] Sirin (810) Tall ash-Shauk (120) - [Nir David] Yubla (210)
District of Taburiya (Tiberias): 24 localities
Al-Hadatha (520) Al-Hamma (290) - [Hammat Gader] Al-Manara (x) - [Menora Hospital] Al-Manshiya (1938:362) Al-Mansura (x) Al-Ubeidiya (870) - [Beit Zera'] An-Nuqeib (320) As-Samakiya (380) - [(Cafarnaum)] As-Samra (290) - [Ha-On] Ash-Shajara (770) - [Ilaniya] At-Tabigha (330) - [(Heptapegon)] Ghuweir Abu Shusha (1240) - [Ginossar] Hittin (1190) - [Kefar Zeitim] Kafr Sabt (480) - [Sede Ilan] Khirbet al-Wa'ra as-Sauda (x) Lubiya (2350) - [Lavi] Ma'dhar (480) Majdal (360) Nimrin (320) Samakh (3460) - [Ma'agan] Ulam (720) Yaquq (210) - [Huqoq]
District of Safed (Zefat): 76 localities
Abil al-Qamh (330) - [Yuval] Ad-Darbashiya (310) Adh-Dhahiriya at-Tahta (350) Al-Abbisiya (830) - [Kefar Szold] Al-Amir (x) - [Amir] Al-Buweiziya (510) Al-Ghabbatiya (60) Al-Ghuraba (200) - [Gonen] Al-Hamra (730) - [Lehavot Habashan] Al-Huseiniya (340) Al-Khalisa (1840) - [Kiryat Shemona] Al-Khisas (530) - [Ha-Gosherim] Al-Madahil (1931:100) - [Kefar Szold] Al-Malikiya (360) - [Malkiya ] Al-Manara (490) - [Menara] Al-Manshiya (1938: 362) Al-Mansura (360) - [She'ar Yashuv] Al-Muftakhira (350) Al-Qeitiya (940) - [Beit Hilel] Al-Ulmaniya (260) Al-Waiziya (x) Alma (950) - [Alma] Ammuqa (140) - [Ammuqa] An-Na'ima (1030) - [Kefar Blum] Ar-Ras al-Ahmar (620) - [Keren Ben Zimra] Arab az-Zubeib As-Salihiya (1520) - [Kefar Blum] As-Sanbariya (130) - [Ma'ayan Barukh] Ash-Shuna (170) At-Tuleil - [Hulata] Az-Zawiya (760) - [Ne'ot Mordekhai] Az-Zuq al-Fauqani (160) - [Yuval] Beisamun (20) Biriya (240) Dallata (360) - [Dalton] Dawwara (700) - [Amir] Deishum (590) - [Dishon] Ein az-Zeitun (820) - [Ein Zeitim] Fara (320) Farradiya (670) - [Parod] Fir'in (740) - [Hazor Ha-Gelilit] Harrawi (x) - [Qeren] Hunin (1620) - [Margaliyot] Ja'una (1150) - [Rosh Pina] Jahula (420) Jubb Yusuf (170) Kafr Bir'im (710) Khan ad-Duweir (1938:150) - [Senir] Khirbet al-Hiqab/Uqeiba (x) Khirbet al-Muntar (x) Khirbet as-Samman - [Shamir] Khirbet Kharraza (x) Khirbet Khati (x) Khiyam al-Walid (280) - [Lehavot Habashan] Kirad al-Baqqara (360) Kirad al-Ghannama (350) - [Ayyelet Ha-Shahar] Lazzaza (230) - [Beit Hilel] Mallaha (890) Mansurat al-Kheit (200) - [Kefar Ha-Nasi] Marus (80) Meirun (290) - [Meron] Mughr al-Kheit (940) - [Hazor Ha-Gelilit] Nabi Yusha' (70) - [Ramot Naftali] Qabba'a (460) Qadas (290) Qaddita (240) Safsaf (910) - [Sifsufa] Saliha (1070) - [Yir'on] Sammu'i (310) - [Kefar Shamma'i] Sasa (1130) - [Sasa] Shauqa at-Tahta (200) - [Dafna] Teitaba (530) - [Dalton] Yarda (20) - [Mishmar Ha-Yarden] Zangharriya (840) Zuq at-Tahtani (1050) - [Beit Hilel]
& all you can think about is the suicide bombings?! ....who btw did not kill more than 100 israelis (this if you gathered them all together... ) when only one of the massacres mentioned above gathers more than its double(at least!). I'm sorry but the destruction that Israel caused Palestine is WAY more important than the one caused by the intifada... not to mention that whenever an Israeli dies its all over the papers... as for the palestinians, their villages get destroyed completely & silently.
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Registered: May 01, 2002
Posts: 17
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u and all of u should understand somethin..u bein so selfishly blind and since u're not in their shoes,can't possibly know what or why palestinians do what they do..and if u haven't noticed,all the quotes r from arabic leaders who,non of which,have done any solid thing from what they're sayin..and my guess is,they'll never b able 2!!!.and u gettin quotes 2 compare with the quotes i got is just silly.. coz the ppl who said the quotes u brought aren't directly involved in the situation..but the quote i got was!...so when that guy says he wants 2 kill ppl HE'S ACTUALLY ABLE AND DOIN IT!.that's the difference!.
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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Dominoe, if you were educated on this situation you would be pro-sraeli
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Registered: November 24, 2001
Posts: 134
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Both sides are at fault...but I'm more with Palestine than Israel.
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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No response to what proudconservative posted? I see, you fools probably can not comprehend that you have been proven wrong time and time again.
Here is a qoute from the president of Egypt, "We should kill all Jews living in Israel so the Palestinians can live freely."
Saudi Arabais Prince Abdullah "We can not rest until the infidels have been driven from our brother's land."
Saddam Huessien "I would much like to see everyone in Israel, who is not Palestinian, enslaved."
Yasser Arafat "We will continue to kill Israeli women and children till we reclaim what is ours."
Bin Laden "United States must withdraw from Israel so the Palestinians can continue their offensive against the barbaric Hebrews."
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Registered: March 06, 2002
Posts: 148
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Suicide Attack Kills 16 in Israel
By JASON KEYSER .c The Associated Press
RISHON LETZION, Israel (May 7) - A pool hall popular with Israeli teen-agers became the latest Palestinian target Tuesday when a suicide bomber set off nail-studded explosives and killed 16 people. It was the first such attack in more than three weeks, and the first since the Israeli army began pulling out of the West Bank's main cities.
The dead included the bomber, and at least 60 people were wounded, authorities said.
Haim Cohen, a police commander, said the attacker walked straight into the Sheffield pool hall in this city of 100,000, 10 miles south of Tel Aviv. ''He entered all of a sudden into the hall and then he exploded,'' Cohen said.
Suicide bombings had been happening every few days until Israel consolidated its West Bank offensive. But there have been none since April 12, when a bomber blew herself up at a bus stop in Jerusalem, killing six people while Secretary of State Colin Powell was in the region trying to end the violence.
Al Manar TV in Lebanon said it received a claim of responsibility for the bombing from the Islamic militant group Hamas. A Hamas spokesman, Mahmoud Zahar, told The Associated Press he could not confirm it, but said: ''If it is a martyrdom operation, it means that Israel has lost its war against the Palestinians and the Palestinian resistance has proved that it is capable of reaching the enemy everywhere.''
Since Israeli-Palestinian violence erupted in September 2000, there have been nearly 60 suicide bombings. An attack on March 27 that killed 28 people set off Israel's large-scale military operation two days later, aimed at uprooting what Israel called ''terrorist infrastructure.''
In a strong statement with a rare choice of words, Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority called suicide bombings ''terrorist crimes.'' It said it would ''take firm and strict measures against those who are involved in this operation and will not be light-handed in punishing those who have caused great harm to our cause.''
Public opinion polls have shown that many Palestinians believe suicide bombings are a legitimate weapon.
David Baker, an official at Sharon's office, blamed the Palestinian Authority. Speaking to The Associated Press, he said ''it is clear that the Palestinian Authority has not given up its terror actions and has not given up its murderous path.''
The latest bombing came as President Bush and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon were meeting in the White House. It also came amid efforts to strike a deal which would end Israel's military siege of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem and allow the completion of the withdrawal from the West Bank.
Sharon cut short his U.S. visit to head home, while Bush offered him condolences and registered ''his disgust with this wanton waste of life,'' a Bush adviser said.
Outside the pool hall, young women and men cried as they looked up at the bombed-out building. Emergency workers tried to help many to ambulances as police investigators scoured the area for evidence.
Part of the ceiling on the top floor collapsed. A sign read ''Sheffield Club, snooker, cafeteria.'' A shop called Baby World occupied the ground floor.
Israel's Channel 2 TV said no security guard was posted outside the hall, despite new rules ordering places of entertainment to provide security.
Meir Nitzan, the mayor of Rishon Letzion, said more than 60 people had been taken to hospitals, some in critical condition.
Yeruham Mandola, a spokesman with the Israeli ambulance service Magen David Adom, said part of the three-story building had caved in. ''Some of the wounded are trapped in the building,'' he said.
An Israeli woman identified on Israel Radio as Hanit Azulai said she headed home when she heard ''a huge explosion.''
'' I turned the corner and I saw the whole building go up before my eyes.''
Amit Elor, an off-duty soldier was just outside when the blast occurred, ''All of a sudden we heard this loud blast with noises. I went in to help. It's simply shocking what is going on here.''
A U.N. spokesman said Secretary-General Kofi Annan was appalled by the suicide bomb attack in Rish Letzion.
''Such attacks are morally repugnant and only set back the prospects for a peaceful settlement,'' spokesman Fred Eckhard said.
It was not clear how the bombing would affect Israel's plans to withdraw from Bethlehem, the only Palestinian city where it still has a large military presence.
Israeli, Palestinian and international negotiators had discussed exiling 13 suspected militants in the church to Italy, but the deal was delayed Tuesday when officials in Rome said they hadn't received an official request.
A U.S. diplomat acknowledged the Italians had largely been kept in the dark.
All day, negotiators went back-and-forth over the deal to the 13 and transfer 26 others to Gaza, possibly under U.S. and British auspices.
One of the top wanted men inside the church, Abdullah Daoud, said he and the other 12 agreed to exile in Italy. Israeli Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer said the agreement was sealed and he had ordered troops to prepare to withdraw from Bethlehem.
Bush has been pushing for Israel to withdraw from all the Palestinian-run areas it has occupied since March 29.
Sharon wants to sideline Palestinian leader Arafat but the Bush administration believes Sharon should accept Arafat as the leader of the Palestinians.
Arafat came under sharp criticism at home for agreeing to the deportations - considered by many Palestinians to be the bitterest of punishments.
A leader of Arafat's Fatah movement in the West Bank, Hussein al-Sheik, said approving exile set a dangerous precedent. The leader of Hamas, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, called one of his followers inside the church, Aziz Abayat, and pressured him to reject the deal. ''Sheik Yassin told us that ... anyone who accepts exile does not represent the movement's position,'' Abayat said.
The standoff in Bethlehem began April 2, when more than 200 people fleeing Israeli forces ran into the Church of the Nativity. About 75 have since emerged from the basilica.
Those remaining inside include the 39 gunmen, as well as civilians, clerics, policemen and 10 foreign supporters who slipped past Israeli guards last week.
AP-NY-05-07-02 2131EDT
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Registered: February 28, 2002
Posts: 106
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Marine, my "irrelevant babble" as you call it is an answer to your posts... I wouldn't have posted it if you hadn't doubted the other quotes.
I know it's long, but please take the time to read Dijja's post.
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Registered: May 02, 2002
Posts: 26
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Wake up America! By Karen Grundhofer El-Kawa, Special to Arab News
At the risk of being labeled an extremist, I send you this list of undisputed facts regarding the history of Palestine. While I watch the American media distort the facts of what is going on recently in the occupied territories, I send you this information in the hope that you will re-evaluate your viewpoint and ask yourself the following questions:
Why do UN resolutions only apply when the US wants them to? For example, we need to bomb Iraq because Saddam Hussein will not comply with the resolutions, while Israel can completely ignore the recently passed resolutions 1402 and 1403 (backed by the US) without any punishment whatsoever or even condemnation by our government (like they have ignored many other standing resolutions in the past).
How can we allow Israel to make comparisons to their political situation and the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks? It is insult to the memory of those who died on 9/11 to make these comparisons. Israel has been in a state of war for over 50 years. There are three times as many Palestinians who have died as Israelis since the Intifada began in October 2000. Why do we Americans value the life of an Israeli more than a Palestinian?
I would like to make the distinction right now between “the real terrorists” of the world and the Palestinian suicide bombers. Since Sept. 11 governments and the media have distorted this issue to no end. The Israeli government has latched onto this new terminology taking advantage of America’s misfortunes.
The “war on terror” has nothing to do with the Palestinian/Israel war that has been going on for over 50 years. Recent terrorist attacks against the US include US embassy bombings, Sept. 11, and the attack on the USS Cole. Foreigners committed these “acts of terror”. Yes they were Arabs,but there was not one Palestinian among them. Israel is an occupier in a land that is not their own. They have never compensated the Palestinians for their land. In the current Intifada, Palestinian suicide bombers have never attacked anyone outside their own borders. This in my opinion is not an “act of terror”. I realize this issue is extremely debatable. But how can the Israelis make comparisons to Sept. 11 when they have been in the middle of this conflict for so long?
Why today is the idea of “dying for a cause” so foreign to Americans? We have been taught since childhood about the heroes in American history who have died for our freedom or what they believe in.
Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they could see us now bowing to the Israel government, denying the individual freedoms we take for granted everyday in America.
If you think the Palestinians are willing to die for anything less than their freedom, you are incorrect. Martyrdom and the fact that they also go straight to Heaven according to Islamic teachings, is just a bonus. While those who died in the American Revolution are definitely heroes, we denounce the Palestinians who defend themselves the only way they can.
Israel citizens are allowed to carry arms, Palestinians are not. Israel citizens are allowed to go anywhere they want, Palestinians are not. Israel army personnel are allowed to act as judge, jury and executor. Palestinians are like lambs going to the slaughter with no means of real defense.
Israeli Army can enter any home, kill its inhabitants, and destroy any personal property without blinking an eye. Israeli soldiers can bulldoze any home of their choosing without a flinch, build a set of condos in its place, call it a settlement and deny access to the land’s original owners (if they are even still alive).
Nobody would bat an eye if the original owners were killed in the process. We Americans treat minks and lab rats better than the Israelis treat the Palestinians. You might be willing to die for freedom in such circumstances too. Wouldn’t you? It is their only hope. More soldiers and civilians died in the US Civil War than any other war — over what — slavery. And you think thePalestinians are crazy? For those of you who think you will be accused of being an anti-Semite for backing a Palestinian state,this is not a religious issue for the Israelis. It is a political one! It is all about land and borders and control of an oppressed people. When Israelis turn it into a Jewish issue, they are trying to manipulate you. There are many Jewish people all over the world (especially in Europe), who denounce the Israel government and their tactics.
They can see how oppressive the Israeli Army is. It can only be compared to how the Jews were treated by Adolph Hitler and his regime.
Ariel Sharon is without a doubt a murderer and a liar. Say what you want about Yasser Arafat. Before this current incursion, Arafat was hated more by the Arabs than anybody. But Sharon is a convicted murder.
He was found directly responsible for the massacres at the refugee camps in Sabra and Shatila where over 2,000 Palestinians died in 1982. But what you don’t know,
Sharon is nothing more than a Mafia boss. The Christian militia who were his partners in Lebanon during the early 1980s are literally “swimming with the fishes”. Three different Lebanese leaders (his ex-partners) have been killed in Mafia style killings including one in February in a car bomb. These leaders were supposed to testify against Sharon in the Belgium world court. Now that they are dead, there is no case. (I can get you the details of this if you want supporting documentation).
Would we let a Mafia boss run our country? Sharon has no regard for human life. Any democratically elected leader who threatens another elected leader with exile or death threats as well stating he should have killed Arafat when he had the chance all those years ago, is not fit for office. I hope you will agree with me that our fellow Americans are misinformed and reading the situation incorrectly. If you care at all, I would ask you to think carefully about this. If we want to reduce the terrorist threat against America, we have to try and understand why people are so fed up with our government and their policies.
Why are there people willing to spend years and years plotting against innocent Americans? We have to make some changes and pay attention to world opinion. We cannot remain the isolationists we are today and were before we joined World War II if we want to reduce the terrorist threat.
Solving the Israel/Palestinian issue would be a step in the right direction. Arabs(Muslims and Christians) are completely insulted by the lack of regard for human life in the Arab world. Arabs are frustrated by the one-sided American policy.
For those of you who believe this is not our battle to resolve, please realize every tank, gun, F-16, helicopter, and bullet read “Made in the USA”. As the arms suppliers for the Israelis (some paid for by the American government or private US citizens), we have to take somer responsibility as to how thoseweapons are used. Don’t we hold drug dealers in some part responsible forselling drugs to our youth?
Yes, I realize there is more than just one side to every fight. But while our fellow Americans sit waiting in fear for the next terrorist attack on the US, our government continues to insult the intelligence of the Arab people. Individuals who were once considered moderate are now thinking maybe the US got what it deserved. Whether you agree with me or not is not the issue.
We have to do something to eradicate this hatred toward America, or we will pass this horrible legacy to our children. What worries me even more is that according to the polls, Americans actually believe getting rid of Saddam is the answer. Believe me; attacking Iraq will only increase America’s enemies. If you want to really have a “war on terror”, fix the problem in Palestine. Our government has to start playing fair and begin to really be impartial, if that is even possible. I hope for the future of America, the world and all our children, they can do it. Please read the following facts about Palestine and how we got where we are today. I ask that you show this information to everyone you know so we can at least give the another point of view.
Did you know?
1 — THAT, when the Palestine problem was created by Britain in 1917, more than 90 percent of the population of Palestine were Arabs, and that there were at that time no more than 56,000 Jews in Palestine?
2 — THAT, more than half of the Jews living in Palestine at that time were recent immigrants, who had come to Palestine in the preceding decades in order to escape persecution in Europe? And that less than 5 percent of the population of Palestine were native Palestinian Jews?
3 — THAT, the Arabs of Palestine at that time owned 97.5 percent of the land, while Jews (native Palestinians and recent immigrants together) owned only 2.5 percent of the land?
4 — THAT, during the 30 years of British occupation and rule, the Zionists were able to purchase only 3.5 percent of the land of Palestine, in spite of the encouragement of the British Government? And that much of this land was transferred to Zionist bodies by the British Government directly, and was not sold by Arab owners?
5 — THAT, therefore, when British passed the Palestine problem to the United Nations in 1947, Zionists owned no more than 6 percent of the total land area of Palestine?
6 — THAT, notwithstanding these facts, the General Assembly of the United Nations recommended that a “Jewish State” be established in Palestine? And that the Assembly granted that proposed “State” about 54 percent of the total area of the country?
7 — THAT, Israel immediately occupied (and still occupies) 80.48 percent of the total land area of Palestine?
8 — THAT, this territorial expansion took place, for the most part, before May 15, 1948 i.e., before the formal end of the British forces from Palestine, before the entry of Arab armies to protect Palestinian Arabs,and before the Arab-Israeli war?
9 — THAT, the 1947 recommendation of the General Assembly in favor of the creation of a “Jewish State” was outside the competence of the Assembly under the Charter of the United Nations?
10 — THAT, all attempts by the Arab states and other Asian countries to have the Assembly submit “the question of constitutionality” of its recommendation to the International Court of Justice for an “advisory opinion” by the Court were rejected or ignored by the Assembly?
11 — THAT, when the Assembly began to experience “second thoughts” over the matter and convened for its second special session in 1948, it failed to reaffirm the 1947 recommendation for the partition of Palestine — thus destroying whatever dubious legality that recommendation for the establishment of a “Jewish State” had had?
12— THAT, that original 1947 recommendation to create a “Jewish State” in Palestine was approved, at the first vote, only by European, American and Australian states... for every Asian state, and every African state (with the exception of the Union of South Africa) voted against it? And that, when the vote was cast in plenary session on Nov. 29, 1947, urgent American pressures (which a member of the Harry Truman Cabinet described as “bordering onto scandal”) had succeeded in prevailing only upon one African country (Liberia), both of which had special vulnerability to American pressures, to abandon their declared opposition? And that, in other words, the “Jewish State” was planted at the point-of-intersection of Asia and Africa without the free approval of any Middle Eastern, Asian or African country except that Union of South Africa, itself ruled by an alien minority?
13 — THAT, Israel remained, ever since its inception, a total stranger in the emerging world of Afro-Asia; and that Israel has been refused admission to any inter-state conference of Asian, African, Afro-Asian, or Non-Aligned States ever held?
14 — THAT, since the General Armistice Agreements were signed in 1949,Israel has maintained an aggressive policy of waging military attacks across the Armistice Demarcation Lines, repeatedly invading the territories of the neighboring Arab states. And that Israel has been duly rebuked, censured, or condemned for these military attacks by the Security Council of the General Assembly of the United Nations on 11 occasions — five times by the Security Council and six times by the General Assembly?
15 — THAT, no other country in the world, whether member of the United Nations or non-member, has been so frequently condemned by the United Nations?
16 — THAT, no Arab state has ever been condemned by any organ of the United Nations for military attacks upon Israel?
17 — THAT, besides expelling the bulk of the Arab inhabitants of Palestine,and besides constantly attacking the neighboring Arab states, Israel has also consistently harassed the United Nations observers and other personnel stationed along the Armistice Demarcation Lines: It has assassinated the first United Nations mediator and his military aide; it has detained some truce observers; it has militarily occupied and illegally searched the headquarters of United Nations personnel; and it has boycotted meetings of the Mixed Armistice commissions?
18 — THAT, Israel has additionally imposed a system of apartheid upon the Arabs, who stayed in their homeland? More than 90 percent of these Arabs live in “security zones”; they alone live under martial law, restricting their freedom to travel from village to village or from town to town; their children are denied equal opportunities for education; and they are denied decent opportunities for work, and the right to receive “equal pay for equal work?”
19 — THAT, notwithstanding the foregoing facts, Israel has always been, and still is, widely portrayed in the Western press as the “bastion of democracy” and the “champion of peace” in the Middle East?
20 — THAT, the Western powers have persisted in declaring their determination to ensure a so-called “arms balance” in the area, as between Israel, on the one hand, and the 100 million inhabitants of the 13 Arab states, on the other hand? And this unilateral Western doctrine of so-called “arms balance” is no more reasonable than the suggestion that, in the Cuba-US conflict, there should be “arms balance” as between Cuba and the United States.... or that the whole Continent of Africa should not be allowed to acquire more arms than South Africa... or that Mainland China should not be permitted to have more arms than Taiwan... or that the military allowed to acquire more arms than South Africa... and that only thus can peace be safeguarded in the Western Hemisphere, in Africa, in Asia, or in Europe?
21 — THAT, Israel allots 85 percent of the water resources in the occupied territories for Jews and the remaining 15 percent is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron,85 percent of the wateris given to about 500 settlers, while 15 percent must be divided among Hebron’s 120,000 Palestinians?
22 — THAT, the United States awards Israel $3 billion in aid each year, more than to any other country in the world: US aid to Israel exceeds the aid the US grants to the whole sub-Saharan Africa?
23 — THAT, GDP, per capita, and consumption per capita in the occupied territories have dropped about 15 percent in the West Bank and Gaza since 1993 — that’s even with large foreign assistance pouring in, from Europe, mostly?
24 — THAT, up until 1993, the US and Israel permitted humanitarian aid to come into the territories. UN humanitarian aid was permitted into the West Bank and Gaza. In 1993, that was restricted?
25 — THAT, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that has nuclear weapons?
26 — THAT, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?
27 — THAT, Israel currently occupies territories of two sovereign nations (Lebanon and Syria) in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
28 — THAT, high-ranking military officers in the Israeli military have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed by the Israeli Army?
29 — THAT, Israel refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
30 — THAT, Israel routinely confiscates bank accounts, businesses, and land from Palestinians and refuses to pay compensation to those who suffer the confiscation?
31 — THAT, Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?
32 — THAT, Israel’s current head, Ariel Sharon, was found by an Israeli court to be “personally responsible” for the Sabra and Shatila massacres in Lebanon in which thousands of unarmed Palestinian refugees were slaughtered in 1982?
33 — THAT, today’s Israel sits on the former sites of more than 400 destroyed Palestinian villages, and that the Israelis renamed almost every physical site in the country to cover up the traces?
34 — THAT, Sharon’s coalition government includes a party — Molodet — which advocates expelling all (of the over two million)Palestinians from (their homes) in the occupied territories?
35 — THAT, Israel’s illegal settlement-building in the Occupied Palestinian territories more than doubled in the eight years since the Oslo agreements?
36 — THAT, illegal settlement building under Prime Minister Ehud Barak doubled compared to settlement building under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu?
37 — THAT, more illegal settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories were built under Barak than at any other time in the history of Israel’s occupation of Palestinian land?
38 — THAT, despite a ban on torture by Israel’s High Court of Justice, torture has continued by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners?
39 — THAT, Palestinian refugees make up the largest refugee population in the world?
40 — THAT, Israeli military checkpoints surround every Palestinian population center in violation of the Oslo Accords?
41 — THAT, the right of self-determination is guaranteed to every human being under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (December, 1948), yet Palestinians were/are expected to negotiate for this right under the Oslo Accords?
42 — THAT, Palestinians have the highest ratio of PhDs per capita in the world?
***
(Riyadh-based Karen El-Kawa has a degree in sociology from the University of California, Berkeley. She is actively involved in the American expatriate community in the Saudi capital. Karen can be reached at
kelkawa@hotmail.com.)
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Registered: April 27, 2002
Posts: 855
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Now againstwar, jsut becasue you're colse on teh UN thing doesnt mean copying and pasting propaganda is goig to further the discussion. If we're talking facts here lets stick to the facts. marine - You're becoming rather condecending. The tone isn't one that's going to get someone like againstwar to agree with you (hmm...strangel familiar to the topic at hand, now maybe we can understand why there are no clear solutions...) Yes, of course I've heard of an override, but no, there is no such thing ans an override on the Security Council. Like I said, jsut go to the UN site, it's really helpful and informative. Or better yet, tell us where you're getting your information from. This might help root out some of the base causes for confusion. quote: News for you people, the US doesn't run the UN. If the UN thaught Israel was in the wrong they would punish them, they haven't. Enough said.
Not quite. There was goign to be an inquiry but Israel wouldn't allow the inspectors in. This means there amy or may not have been crimes, but we may never know. quote: If Israel is committing such awful crimes then why aren't they under investigation for war crimes?
See above. The US has committed numerous war crimes ( http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/ChronologyofTerror.html) Yet has never stood trial. Amnesty Internation released a study saying that in modern wars if there is a grave threat to humanity it can usually be traced back to the US. Henry Kissenget would be immediately hauled in front of a tribunal for his role in Vietnam and Cambodia. Clinton is a likely target as well, but it's no surprise the US will not sign the treaty to establish an International Criminal Court.It's fine if other peopl are subject to it's laws, but we're not so keen on acknowledging our own history. quote: Wait a minute, the UN did investigate Israel on grounds of war crimes and found NOTHING,
This is simply not true. quote: Powell even backed up this investigation on a suprise visit.
There is really nothing surprising about flying a plane into Israel when you're an internationally recognizeable figure. And what exactly is he spposed to do on this "surprise visit" to confirm no crimes were committed? quote: Isn't that funny, how a councel[sic] that countians[sic] more anti-Israelies than pro can not dig up enough evidence to convict them of war crimes?
The US and Israel have blocked attempts to invesitgate Israel's actions, however, the EU, the UN General Assembly, the Human Rights Council, and other groups have al condemned what they consider "excessive retaliation" and uses of force against Palestine. Other bodies which lack the US and Israel have called for investigations since doing it with Israel's cooperation seems like trying to do weapons inspections in Iraq. In conclusion: All war is a crime, no one is innocent. Don't take sides.
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Registered: February 22, 2002
Posts: 2066
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Let me get this straight, you fools are saying that the US can veto anything, even if it is the best interests of the 6 other countries in the security council? That is true, but not enbtirley. You are saying if there was a 'bill' that would make the other 6 countries worth 10x as much money the US could veto it and the other 6 countries would be powerless? Perhaps you people have never heard of an over ride. Let me explain, in an over ride, a person, or group, trow out the veto. Thus if those 6 power houses wanted something really bad and the US vetoesd it, they would over ride that veto. Just like the issues regarding Israel, if they really waned to put Israel on trial, they would have over ridden the US's veto.This only proves that you fools are still twisting the trueth.
Againstwar, you have once again resorted to irrelevant babble. It looks like you'll never learn. My historically correct arguement and facts that still has not been disputed were written in about ten paragraphs, yet you people continue to grasps for straws.
News for you people, the US doesn't run the UN. If the UN thaught Israel was in the wrong they would punish them, they haven't. Enough said. If Israel is committing such awful crimes then why aren't they under investigation for war crimes? Wait a minute, the UN did investigate Israel on grounds of war crimes and found NOTHING, Powell even backed up this investigation on a suprise visit. Isn't that funny, how a councel that countians more anti-Israelies than pro can not dig up enough evidence to convict them of war crimes?
As for you last posts, Agianstwar, I did not read all of it but editorials are crap and far from credible. Israel should bomb Egypt because Egypt is a clear and present danger towards the Jews. Wouldn't you want people who were freeloading off the country you owned and had the right to off your land? I would. Perhaps the Palestinians should stop breading so fast in Gaza. They must make due with what they have and stopp begging selfishly for more. if they can not control their population that perhaps they should follow China's lead. 'With minimal loss to civilian life' only proves that you are not even reading what you write. Also, the qoute was not printed in full, you ca not pick and chose againstwar. Find proof they are torturing, then I will validate that. That Rabi is an extremesits, prove me wrong. The Palestinians have killed their own kind to kill Jews, that is somehting a beast would do. The rest of your posts was just damage control to you slipping arguement.
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Registered: February 28, 2002
Posts: 106
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March 11, 2002.: Thousands of Israeli racists and supremacists demonstrate in Rabin Square demanding the ethnic cleansing of the occupied territories of Palestine, with the "transfer" (forced deportation) of the entire Palestinian nation.
"Gaza's high birth rate has made the political problem more intractable...breeding... suicide bombers." Source: Walter Laqueur, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Washington D.C. writing in "This Isn't the Time for Peace," Wall Street Journal, March 27, 2002
In 1923, radical Zionist Ze'ev Jabotinsky-- spiritual father of not only of Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin but of Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane-- wrote that the "sole way" for Jews to deal with Arabs in Palestine was through "total avoidance of all attempts to arrive at a settlement"-which Jabotinsky euphemistically termed the "iron wall" approach. Not coincidentally, a picture of Jabotinsky graces Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's desk. Source: The Village Voice, "Death Wish in the Holy Land," Dec. 12, 2001
In an editorial in the august Wall Street Journal, the flagship publication of America's corporate elite, Israeli columnist Hillel Halkin called for bombing, kidnapping and torturing Palestinians: "I can make careful use of the intelligence at Israel's disposal to identify, locate and kill...with minimal loss of innocent life, by such means as booby-trapping their telephones, rocketing their cars and offices, etc. In a word, assassinate them. Sounds good to me. "...hold a trial with the help of witnesses similary abducted from the Palestinian territories. If necessary it (Israel) should apply physical pressure (a euphemism for torture) to these witnesses..." The Wall Street Journal, August 28, 2001, p. A14.
During a sermon preceding the 2001 Passover holiday, the influential Israeli Rabbi Ovadia Yosef exclaimed: "May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arab heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them." He added: "It is forbidden to have pity on them. We must give them missiles with relish, annihilate them. Evil ones, ****able ones." Source: Ha'aretz April 12, 2001
Israeli Minister Rechavam Ze'evi, who took his place in Ariel Sharon's cabinet March 7, 2001, a former Israeli army major-general, wants the 3 million Palestinians expelled from the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Ze'evi is the founder of the Moledet party. Joining him in Sharon's cabinet is the Russian-Jewish immigrant Avigdor Lieberman, the new infrastructure minister. The leader of a political party, Mr Lieberman has called for Israel to bomb Egypt's Aswan dam. Ze'evi will push for the invasion of Palestinian-ruled towns to end the resistance. He "wants to cleanse the West Bank of Palestinians. The Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza have to be transferred..." He has been drawing up battle scenarios for Sharon, and has joined Lieberman in demanding assurances that Mr Sharon will invade the West Bank and Gaza Strip. He also wants the army to unleash attack dogs on Palestinian demonstrators. Source: Suzanne Goldenberg, The Guardian (London). March 7, 2001
"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel...Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours."-Rafael Eitan, chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces, quoted in Yediot Ahronot, April 13, 1983, and The New York Times, April 14, 1983.
"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."-Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25,1982.
"We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return."-David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, July 18, 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's "Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet," Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."-Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum."
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."-Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."-Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine, "Complete Diaries," June 12, 1895 entry.
Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, head of the Kever Yossev Yeshiva (school of Talmud) in Nablus stated, "The blood of the Jewish people is loved by the Lord; it is therefore redder and their life is preferable." The killing by a Jew of a non-Jew, i.e. a Palestinian, is considered essentially a good deed, and Jews should therefore have no compunction about it. Source: Yitzhak Ginsburg, "Five General Religious Duties Which Lie Behind the Act of the Saintly, Late Rabbi Baruch Goldstein, May his Blood be Avenged"
THESE ARE JUST A FEW QUOTES...
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Registered: February 28, 2002
Posts: 106
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 thank you for the information. Marine, I know you don't want to believe anything that I say, but I hope that the facts coming out from someone else's mouth can make it through to your brain. I'm neither bending facts nor making up arguments. Everything I post have reliable sources, if not there's the person it's quoted from or(if not and) the date, & I've given you many websites you can check out for more information. So anything you don't believe you can actually look for in a history book or in old newspapers or other books related to middle-eastern issues. As you can see the UN is far from being fair, & believe it or not it's not justice that makes politics tic. My answer still stands (like it or not).
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