Palestine doesn't want their freeedom. I can prove this. Israel has, in the past, offered Palestine thier freedom, under FPM Birach. He offered them a free state, which was 95% of what Arafat wanted and the ungreatful Palestinians declined. They wanted more. If you want freedom, you take what you can get. The Israelies were withdrawing from their occupation of the West Bank and the Palestinians drew them back in by using a human bomb. Because of Palestine's past actions it is proven that they do not want freedom. All their talk about freedom means nothing because their past actions
prove they don't want freedom. Face it, actions outwiegh words (Regardless of what you people seem to think)

You people are blind to the fact that the Palestinians have had the most freedom they have ever had under the Israelies. Prove me wrong.

Also my offer still stands, prove the other facts I have presented wrong. You will find that an impossible task.

I hope you are all happy. Did you people know that Israel was beginning their withdrawl from teh West Bank today? Well, they were. And do you people know what happened while the Israelies were withdrawing? The Palestinians used another human bomb against the Israelies in the most devastating terrorist act yet. Do you people know who that bomb was attached to? The Former Prime Minister of Israel has said that it was attached to a tenn year old boy? Why wasn't that boy killed before he reached the victims? Because they refused to kill children. That puts and end to all of your stupid arguements that Israelies are killing innocent children. 'Innocnet' children are killing Israelies. Palestine got what they wanted, Israel was leaving. And what do they do when they are closer to freedom than they have been in two weeks? They kill Israelies. Palestine has proven that they WANT to be deystroyed. They have proven their is no hope for peace and they are essentially begging Israel to demolish them. If they weren't, they would have let Israel withdrawn. Sending ten year olds to do a mans job puts an end to all pro-Palestinien arguements. (Source - Fox news)

I am not going to repeat myself. I have given undisputable facts, histoircal and biblical, and all you people can say is that I am wrong. Prove it. And, Kahira, find one Jew living in Israel that isn't faithful to God? You won't. So, just like you said, it still belongs to them. And, according to you, since they are still true to God, the Jews should get all land between the Niles and the Euphraties back. You can't disprove that because non-jews live in Israel. They can let whoever they want live their. Bottom line, is the controling body is Jewish.

I find it funny that you people think Israel saying things is horrible but you think that human bombings are justified. It is scary that you people wiegh words over actions.

Oh,yeah.I'd like to protest Youthnoise's seemingly biased take on the Israel/Palestine issue.For all the suicide bombings mentioned,nothing was said about the devastations the Israelis caused(none I remember,anyway);and
I found it very misleading what was said about the attack on Syria and Egypt.The Un did NOT have Israel withdraw from Sinai in 1967(as was implied,but not directly said)and Egypt didn't launch the surprise attack on The Israeli armies occupying our land because they wanted revenge-they were OCCUPYING OUR LAND!!!!!My dad still talks about how they couldn't turn on the lights at night in case the Israeli planes shot or bombed them(yes,in CIVILIAN areas)on seeing the light.

I also wanted to mention that Allah is not a separate god as so many seem to think;it's the same one because only one God exists!!!"Allah" is an Arabic word for God,used by Christians as well.

I'd like everyone to go on this site: www.palestinehistory.com to end this debate about it's history and "canaatis being gone",etc..You'll find a brief history on Palestine from thousands of years before Christ till 2000,as well as the answers to some questions asked on the site,from someone whose knowledge is more detailed than ours.

LIBERALCHIC,go to the questions and answers area ;someone has already responded to your post on Jews not doing what Nazis did,but concentration camps aren't the only methods of genocide as you'll find on the site I mentioned(note also that the use of "dum-dum" bullets-which fragment on hitting the body thereby ensuring death by hitting many organs-are illegal around the world but are being used in Israel).

I think I had more to say but am now tired with too many hours on the net and can't remember.I'm going to bed.

Thank you againstwar,canaanite and 911.
Againstwar,your statement infuriated me,but I'm not surprised,I expected no less,but this kind of information doesn't exactly reach world news,now does it?And like canaanite mentioned(I mentioned this before in a post):Sharon is the worst type of criminal,and his statement regarding that he'd love to have all Palestinian women raped is supported by the fact that he DID have soooo many raped and butchered,so MARINE,it wasn't just talk!!!!(incidentally,I'm half Lebanese too;My dad's Egyptian,my mom's Lebanese and my uncles live in Sayda).

Marine,your entire "arguement" is based on your stubborn,unfounded opinion that Israel was GIVEN to the Jews by God and is theirs to this day and that gives them the right to do whatever they want to the Palestinians.Your "history"isn't history at all and I sympathise with againstwar for trying to reason with you and have her words twisted instead.

First of all againstwar has already shown your biblical "proof" to be wrong,though you refuse to see that.Second of all,if you're saying that the land belongs to the Jews because God gave it to them then your reasons are entirely religious and mistakenly so,and it allows leeway for other religious points of view concerned to decide who the the rights to the land belong to,if someone unbiased is reading this(meaning that if it's fair for you to base it entirely on religion,then it's fair for us ).

Well,I have this to say,if we believe Arabs and Muslims own the right to the land then you can't argue with us because you're using a source that we don't believe in.But think of this:a large percentage of Palestinians are Christians ,right?
Now what was Jesus?He was born a Jew.But Christianity is based mainly on the Disciple's records of his teachings,right?And a lot of the Jews that existed in that area back then converted to Christianity and Islam.But,taking the Israeli view that Israelis are a race,not just a religion,I ask this:who does the land belong to?If some of them are one and the same people but coverts.Can you say,well if they converted to Christianity they're not Jews anymore and it's no longer their land,when Christianity is supposed to be a continuation of God's message to the world(as Islam is );can you say that when YOU are Christian?Because you'd be suggesting that God's word ended before Jesus ever came along,and that Jews are "chosen " over Christians!

Furthermore,if you want to know(all of you)my religious belief according to the Koran,it's this:
the Jews WERE God's chosen ones(listen up Marine,don't muddle this up too)AT THE TIME because they were the only ones that believed in God.And the land was given to them insofar as they continued to worship God the way they were supposed to.Then the last 2 prophets Jesus and Mohammed came along to extend God's message,and now the Jews aren't chosen anymore and are no longer the only ones that believe in God.In fact,a large portion is cursed for the harm they do,except for the ones that truly are good.In the Koran it states that "good Christians and Jews will go to heaven ",just like good Muslims will(emphasis on the "good".So this whole issue is not one of religion on our side because we recognise their right to worship,but the groups trying to put up resistance took on a religious zeal for the simple reason that Israelis MADE it about religion(and went about killing and raping people).Does the Jewish faith tolerate RAPE under ANY circumstance?I think not,therefore I beleve that( at least the Israeli leaders) care about the power rather than practising their faith and this whole "it belong to us cause God said so",is a load of crock,because they're not making an effort to be on God's good side;au contraire!

Canaanite - citing David Duke as a source speaks volumes... I'm sure your aware of his credentials - I'll just post them so others don't bother taking your advice.

David Duke - Former Republican Louisiana state representative and onetime grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan.

The man's an anti-semite and racist. If you're quoting him to show insight into the Mid East conflict, you're way off base.

Thank you againstwar. I was just wondering.

Sure, Israel has said some horrible things. But ask any arab who all of their problems are related to. They will tell you the Jews. Ask any arab what their religion and schools teach them. They will tell you, 'to hate Jews'. They would have told you this even beofre World War II. Ask the Arab people what they want to the Jews. They will say, 'destroy them'. So what do you expect Israel to say when Arabs are saying these things about them? For everybad thing and Israelie has said two Arabs have said something far worse. The Jewish religion does not teach hate for the Arabs.

I find it funny that people think Palestine is under bad condition a couple mounths ago. Do you people know that most freedom they got was an English Colonoy? I can gaurntee you that their modern, untill this current conflict, state was the most freedom they have ever and will ever see.

"Egiptienmedboy, the UN has never asked Israel to leave 'Arab' land"??????
Egiptienmedboy, you were right. " [...]calling for Israel to implement recent UN resolutions calling for both a ceasefire and the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Palestinian cities and towns."(BBC)

"Leah, it was an 18 yeard old, not a 15 year old."???
Leah you were right too!
"March 29, 2002,AYAT AKHRAS
The girl, 16, set off explosives strapped to her body at a Jerusalem supermarket."(TIME)

I agree with 911 & canaanite.

"... barbaric, faceless, cowards that continue to hurt their innocent people..." , "coward of a terrorists ", "innocent civilians", "for no reason", "for being that careless and ignorant", "silly hypotheticals" , "You fools are right" , "only radiates ignorance", "you fools seem to say", "That is outrageous", "crazy scenarios", "hypotethical questions and un-backed opinions" (...AND THE LIST GOES ON...)

Marine and the otherz who support you...
DON'T U FIND THESE TOO BIASED?????????????????
TRY LOOKING FOR "ARGUMENTS" !!!!

The following are parts of David Duke, National President European-American Unity and Rights Organization (EURO) article published on November 21, 2001.

"For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been (by the Jews) slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed...This is my message to the American people: to look for a serious government that looks out for their interests and does not attack other people's lands, or other people's honor..."

"Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, is one of the world's most bloodstained terrorists. He is responsible for the cold-blooded slaughter of at least 1,500 men, women and children in the Beirut refugee camps of Chatila and Sabra. Even a formal Israeli commission found Sharon personally responsible for the Lebanese massacres."

"At least 1500 Palestinian men, women and children were butchered, and perhaps as many as 2500. (An official Lebanese investigation set the figure at 2500) Even after the efforts of Sharon's bulldozers, many Palestinians remained unburied, and Red Cross workers found whole families; including hundreds of elderly and little children, with their throats cut or disemboweled. Uncounted numbers of women and girls were also raped before they were slaughtered."

"What did the Zionist terrorists actually do at Deir Yassin and at other villages that caused the Palestinian people to flee in fear? A Red Cross doctor, Jacques de Reynier, chief representative of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Jerusalem gave a shocking account of the massacre in his official report.
De Reynier arrived at the village on the second day and saw "the mopping up," as one of the Israeli terrorists put it to him. It had been done with machine guns, then grenades, and was finished off with knives. The Jews decapitated some of the victims and fatally maimed 52 children in sight of their mothers. They cut open 25 pregnant women's wombs and butchered the babies in front of them.
Israelis present at Deir Yassin have confirmed these atrocities. After his retirement in 1972, Israeli Haganah officer, Colonel Meir Pa'el, stated the following about Deir Yassin in Yediot Ahronot, a major Jewish publication:
The Irgun and LEHI men came out of hiding and began to `clean' the houses. They shot whoever they saw, women and children included, the commanders did not try to stop the massacre...they were taken to the quarry between Deir Yassin and Giv'at Shaul, and murdered in cold blood...
The commander of the Haganah unit that controlled Deir Yassin after the massacre, Zvi Ankori, made this statement in the Israeli newspaper Davar:
I went into six to seven houses. I saw cut off genitalia and women's crushed stomachs. According to the shooting signs on the bodies, it was direct murder.
Have you seen any TV documentaries or any Hollywood movies about the Israeli terror of Deir Yassin or of many thousands of other Israeli acts of terror against the Palestinian people? You have heard plenty of violin music for Jewish victims of Hitler, but have you heard any violins for the women at Deir Yassin who had their babies cut from their wombs by Jewish Supremacists? Have you heard any violins for any of the other thousands of Palestinian victims of Begin, Shamir, Barak, and Sharon? Befitting Israel's long record of terrorism against the Palestinian people, Israel has the nasty habit of electing its most notorious terrorists and mass murderers as its Head of State."

Uhm.. i'm not sure if you're able to access as much information in the united states as I do here,(but uhm you can always try to look through the internet no matter how hard they try it's the hardest thing to censor.)
I've read many books about the israeli-palestinian conflict, reports, newspapers & mags. I found these statements quite interesting (just
like you) so I saved them.. they're taken from different sources.

Hey. I am not posting my opinion, I am still trying to figure out the truth through this whole ordeal. But I found your quotes shocking, Againstwar. That is incredible if they are true. I was just wondering where you got them from. You kow, a reasonable source? Thanks.

someone on this messageboard dared to call palestinians murderers while he was trying to defend Israel. Well, let's see who's the murderer... shall we?

"A partial Jewish State is not the end, but only the beginning, I am certain that we can not be prevented from settling in the other parts of the country and region."
David Ben Gurion in a letter to his son, 1937

"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left."
Joseph Weitz, the head of Jewish Agency's Colonization Department, which was responsible for the actual organization of settlements in Palestine, 1940.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
The Koenig Report

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."
Heilbrun, the Chairman of the committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv

"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian child’s existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do."
Ariel Sharon, current Prime Minister, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956

"We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters."
Uri Lubrani, Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion’s special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960

Do you see what the media is hiding from you?
THE TRUTH!

Everyone needs to think. Why does Israel kill Palestinie citizens? Because they broke the law. Why do the Palestinians have to obide by Israelie law? Because the West Bank and Gaza belong to Israel and they have every buisness being in their own country. Why do Palestinians need laws restricting them to their residents? Because Palestinian men and women have killed hunreds of innocent Israel civilians in acts of terrorism and Israelies simply can't tell the difference between the bad guys and the good guys. Why are children killed? Because Israelies can't tell the differncce between the bad guys and the good guys and the terrorists will stoop so low as to use children for their doings. Will innocents die? Yes, but, form Israels standpoint, it is better to have one dead innocent palestinian that one dead palistinian terrorists and 20 dead Israelie citizens. Why are the Palestinians under such strict conditions? Because barbaric Palestinians left Israel no choice. Is Palestine can't defend theirself than they shouldn't have started this war in the first place. They made their owen mess and the rest of the world should ignore their cries and let them get out of it themselvs.

...It seems almost absurd to have to point out that forcing millions of people to live for decades under hostile military RULE with no end in sight, inevitably produces violent resistance.

Marine... i just wonder who here has to get his facts straight...

"You can not make excuses for murderes" ?! Well you certainly can justify these ones since it is in resistance to the Israeli occupation, which personifies the right to self-determination, freedom and independence. The palestinians are deeply commited to their cause, self- sacrifice is their last way to determine this cause...

Besides, in recent days, Israeli tanks and soldiers began occupying Bethlehem, Ramallah, and several other cities where by international law they have NO BUSINESS in!
Although Israeli officials are occasionally noted on record "apologising" for the latest "accidental" death of the child, there comes a point: after a year in which one quarter of the 800 Palestinians killed were children and 50 percent of these children were killed far away from clashes, that it becomes imperative to note that Israel could always simply STOP killing children, instead of merely apologizing for it!!!!

This is no longer simply a tragic, annoying, endless regional conflict. It is now a conflict that threatens the safety of the entire world. Nothing else about it is as important.

If we don't hope for peace, reasonably or not, what should we hope for? If we don't have hope we don't have much now do we? So yes we should keep hoping and if you are religious praying. We are the future, let's keep hope alive.

I support President Bush on almost all issues, however I am not too proud to disagree with him on this one. He should not have asked Isreal to stop the "offensive". First of all, it is not our place to ask them that. Second, they are fighting terrorism. Arafat is clearly a terrorist and should be dealt with no differently than any other one. He has been linked to attacks and he even ordered some. Isreal did not plead for us to back out of Afghanistan when we were fighting and continue to fight terror there. They supported our plight to eradicate the world of the evil cowardice that now plagues it and we should do the same. I, as an American, support Isreal's right to both defend themselves from and stop the barbaric, faceless, cowards that continue to hurt their innocent people. And President Bush, a fellow warrior on terror, should do the same.

"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

Egiptienmedboy, the UN has never asked Israel to leave 'Arab' land because the UN allowed the Jews to reoccupy their promised land in the first place. Get you facts straight. And of course they have rejected 'peace proposal' asking the Israel's to leave 'arab' land because they want to live in the country promised to them by God, Moses, the United States and the UN. They have a right to live there and they will not leave. It is crazy that you think they are terrorists because they will not leave their promised and homeland.

Leah, it was an 18 yeard old, not a 15 year old. Get your facts straight. The Arabs could have lived their life freely in the land Israel gave them from theri own pocket. The land Israel took from it's own pocket and let the Palestinians rule indpendantly from Israel. They could have been free but they chose to ruin their freedom by killing Israel civilians and now they must face the consequences for their actions.

Againstwar, that 18 year old coward of a terrorists killed innocent civilians. You can not make excuses for murderes. You says, 'wouldn't you expect her to commit suicide & try to take away with her those who caused her pain??' Well, I do agree with that. She should have killed the people who caused the pain, the Palestinian terrorists. Every Israelie military action against Palestine has been the result of a terrorists or military attack against Israel. Israel doesn't just roll their tank into the West Bank and Gaza for no reason, they do it because Palestine has killed their civilians. Againstwar, if by this.. 'This israeli violence is what's unhuman.' you mean the Israel human bombs against civilians you are right. But hold on a second, that is what the Palestinians did and are doing. I think you meant for your qoute to read 'This palestinian violence is what's unhuman.'

Proudconservative, you hit the nail on the end and I will end with your qoute, 'I don't feel sorry at all for the palestinias, they have been starting everything that is going on, if they can not defend themselves they should not be startuing a war that they can not finish. Israel can and will do whatever it nees to to defend itself, even from "innocent looking" civilians.'