Marine??? You're talking about un-backed opinions??? I find that hillarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Start by backing up your opinion before you judge others. especially when they have tons of facts backing them up!
TRUE the comparision between Israelis & Indians is weak and irrelevant, BUT not for the arguments YOU have posted but rather because the land of America was the Indian's first, as for the land of Palestine, it's not the jews'!
& even if I was wrong, & let's sayt hat you were correct, the land of America is less than 500 yrs old as for the palestinian land it's more than 2000 yrs old!
Think before you write.

Marine, you're the one who needs to do research. Do you really know anyone from that region, and do you know how the state of Israel came about ? They were NOT there first, and they certainly had no divine right.

"The Jews were there first and they are fighting back"

Actually, a few years after WWII, britain decided one day just to tell palestinians to leave their land, and put a jewish run government in place. It was named israel as a nice little gimmick, its just another piece of stolen land.

"Now, you fools seem to say that Israel persecutes the Palistentians. That is outrageous. The Israel's gave the Palestinians part of their land to live and flourish independantly from Israel. "
Palestinianse were removed from homes and land they had owned for generations, and 'compensated' by being given a slum housing ghetto 'city', and that was just an act to appease the world community. For years, israeli millitary forces would destroy palestinian villages whenever they were found, and now tehy bomb entire buildings because one terrorist MIGHT be there among hundreds of women and children.

You seem to like the word 'fool', but it applies a bit more to you than myself, as you're the one who doesnt know the facts and you're the one screaming 'crazy opinions' and resorting to name calling and mudslingning to sway an argument when your points are flawed and incorrect.

Marine, I would like to correct the arguments YOU have found:#1)"You hate Israel, but not as much as Palestine" this isn't an argument, I specificaly titled this comment FOR YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION #2)"You are from Lebanon" if you were reading more carefuly, you would have noticed that this is misledyouth's argument not mine!#3)"You are an Arab Christian" this isn't an argument in my opinion,
as for #3)"The Bible supports the arguements I have made"(I maintained the counting mistake YOU have made)& #4)"History supports the arguements I have made" & #5)"Palestien starts everything with Israel" these are YOUR arguments Marine & have nothing to do with mine.
#6) "I am ignorant" not an argument , but true!'
what's more, I wonder how come Drstrangelove was able to rephrase correctly my argument since you couldn't find "no other arguement" in my posts.

An indepth look at your point of view:
>>"Long live the Jews because they have ravaged for centuries. They have been ravaged," I found this contradiction very interesting!!!
>>"Hundereds of years ago the Jews had a homeland, what it was called I do not know. Their homeland was were Isreal is today. Many countries forced the Jews out of their homeland and claimed the land for themsleves (One of these countries was Palestien.)." & you dared to call this post "history". Well YOUR "history" isn't part of History!
>>"The proof is in a little thing called the Bible." Should i remind you that I'm the one who told you to look into the Bible from the first place??(" check out moises story u'll understand where did israelis come from, palestine existed even back then.”)
>>"To say that Palestian is not a group of terroists is wrong and to say that Isreal stole land from Palestine is wrong and ignorant (Perhaps some reading would bring people up to date.)." read the "History has spoken" comment it will explain to you that in fact, Palestinians are not terrorists & that Israelis stole the land from the Palestinians, you're obviously the one who needs to do some reading.
>>"The nation of Isreal was created long before the Palestiniens were even created." please read "the Bible speaks out" comment.
>>"The bottom line is Israel has every right to live in their homeland that they claimed hundereds of years before the Palestiniens were even created. " again, I'll ask you to read the Bible. (not Israeli HOMELAND, I repeat)

I'm so glad to hear that you agree with History & the Bible, especially those parts(since you said that "our arguements and facts are the same"):
---Ex 33:1 - The LORD said to Moses, "Now that you have brought these people out of Egypt, lead them to the land I solemnly promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.(this shows that in fact the land was the Palestinians not the jews, the land was promised but never owned)
---the Jews proclaimed the creation of the independent state of ISRAEL, comprising more than half of Palestine's territory, on May 14, 1948, (Israel didn't exist before this, if you don't believe me look into the history of Israel)

"No one can say that the Philistines were the original inhabbitants of the land because that is simply FALSE." It's a fact Marine!!!
"If one person who says that would pick up a history book they would learn that the very first inhabbitants of the land were the Canaanites and the Jew conquered them for the land." Well instead of telling people to go and look into history books, why don't you do so, you're obviously the one who needs it the most. I'm really surprised that you still haven't learned that the Canaanites are the arab's ancesters!! & the thing about Jews conquering their homeland had nothing to do with reality until NOW!
"Everyone needs to stop saying that Philistines were the original inhabbitants of ther land because that is simply not true." Well I think YOU should stop thinking that you're the only one who is informed. (not to say that you're completely misinformed).

You fools are right, the Indians do have claim to this land. But they have allowed us to live on their land in peace. Sure, they could revolt and claim their land back, but we would kill them. Just like Israel should do. The difference is that the Indians were her first and they can't fight back. The Jews were there first and they are fighting back. That is a weak and irrelevant comparision.

Israel has a divine right to their land and it only radiates ignorance to say that the land is not rightfully theirs.

'I pray that all this misery and violence ends for the whole world's sake, and i hope that justice will prevail soon.' Well, I agree with this quote, because when Israel destroys the 'nation' of Palestine there will be peace and justice.

Now, you fools seem to say that Israel persecutes the Palistentians. That is outrageous. The Israel's gave the Palestinians part of their land to live and flourish independantly from Israel. It is you people who side with Palestine that do not know the facts and the only facts you do know simply make my arguement stronger. You people need to do research and stop giving me crazy scenarios, hypotethical questions and un-backed opinions.

Israel goes beyond the Taliban in that it doesnt only sponsor terrorism, it enacts terrorist acts itself. Isreal has killed thousands of palestinian civilians, but that doesnt make the news as often as "ISRAELI SOLDIER KILLED WHILE DOING HIS JOB SHOOTING ANYONE WHO LOOKS BAD".

The situation in that area may very well cause world war three. Hussein is preparing his army to go to israel, Hizbollah ius massing on the Lebanese border, and Israel says that if hizbollah attacks, it will attack syria and lebanon. China has said that if Syria or Lebanon are attacked, it will retaliate. If the US continues to foolishly sponsor Israel or ANY SIDE in the matter and act like international police, instead avoiding a potential war and focusing inward, World War Three is a very real possibility.

Marine, after you try to answer the question posted below and think about it for some time, allow me to say that, not only you misunderstood the bible , but also mixed things up so badly... especially when saying that you and againstwar support the same opinion, since it seems different ...if not completely opposite!

As the American David E. Emison says:
"In the last year my mind has been blown open with how much information is kept from the american PEOPLE by our gov't on how brutal and outrageous the Isreali's really are. The media softens their acts as self defense, and points fingers to the Palestinians as terrorists, for attempting independence not in ways much different from our own battle for independence 200 years ago. How can they be getting away with so much?"

You are taugh in classrooms about the glorious American Revolution... but tell me something... do you learn that they TOO were terrorists attacking the British??? well if you want to go by the guidelines set by the Jewish media, they were too terrorists! this is only to show u how easily ppl are pushed by their government to believe in stories and defend these stories with no reasonable explaination!
I would be delighted if the USA would open their eyes to the REAL world and see how well israel manipulates us all!
Also, it is really pathetic to see how the israeli army continues to bomb the cities and kill innocent human beings, who have no organized army or advanced weapons to defend themselves. Which probably explains why suicide bombings have become so prevalent. When you got nothing to lose, there is no room for rational thinking. (That's not to say that i agree with this specific tactic)

I pray that all this misery and violence ends for the whole world's sake, and i hope that justice will prevail soon.
that's all for now...

This goes out to Marine and all those who support Israel by claiming that Palestine IS a Jewsih land ... I would like to ask you a question?

It seems you are American. The land you live on, the land you eat from, the land you walk on, the land you practice democracy, freedom and the pursuit of happiness on... is NOT really your land ... it belongs to the Native Americans ... and we all know that.. right????

What would you feel if the Native Americans now kick you out of your house, kill your family, "rape" your land, and tell you that this land belonged to them ... some 500 years ago... and you are being persecuted everday, humiliated on checkpoints, where you don't even have the right to the least of human rights .. and that is the RIGHT TO LIVE... tell me what would you do at that point????

What if you were an unarmed Palestinian against heavily armed Israeli's, tell me what would you do?

Dear LiberalChic,

Really...do the Palestinians need to be sent to concentration camps for people like yourself to realise that evey precepts of crimes against humanity is being enacted by Israel on the Palestinians? I thought that we had learned our leassons in history...obviously from your angry comment it has not...I hope you sleep at night!

DrStrangeLove, my argument is not a different topic, my point was to make everyone realize that either way religion is a man made thing which has gotten too out of hand, such as in the mid east. Just by man writing a book which says that their god says it is their land does not make it appropiate for one religion to kill innocent civilians from a "rival" religion.

The conflict with Israel and Palestine does not start in the 1900s as some of you have so ignorantly argued. You people need to look back at beginning of time, not just 1940, before you begin argueing this conflict.

Okay where do I start, Israel does not in fact deserve the land, England's promise in 1917 was in fact to both peoples. The promise was to define borders clearly, and fairly to both Jewish, and Palestinians. This promise was later half done by the League of Nations. Now since those borders were established, and reestablished in 1967 during the 6-day war, Israel has come over those borders, and established vehicles used to oppress the Palestinians, including checkpoints, and ridiculous laws. Therefore what Israel is doing is protecting its program of expansion, not it's people. Lets clear another thing up shall we, it is in fact Palestinian citizens vs. highly trained Israeli soldiers, who happen to be using American made weapons. This brings us to yet one more thing, now this is something I'm unsure of unlike the rest, but I believe that in fact the pastiness may have at one time been supported by the soviets, and that might explain the animosity felt toward them by both political parties. Next the Jewish population makes up 2% of our total population, but the parentage of Jewish people who work in show business is very high, as well as politically I'm not making any sort of judgment call, as I believe a Jewish reporter can be just as impartial as the next when it comes to reporting on Israel, but that is a fact. As for the media, all of it is biased, The U.S.A. is the least so, but it still is, what I recommend is watch it all, Fox news is fairly conservative I think, CNN is more liberal, and npr and the bbc are good sources to, but be careful, even headlines can be biased, for example, one network reported that in November Ken lay sold of a hundred million dollars worth of Enron stock, now I'm not saying he's a decent human being, but they should of told a percentage, if he had 20 billion $ of stock then 100 million is no big deal, but if that was three quarters of his stock, then that's a much bigger deal. Last, who are we to talk about who deserves the land? It certainly can’t be decided by how was there first, the U. S. to land from the Native Americans, even Europeans weren’t there in the first place, all we can do is divide things fairly for those who are there now. Well that’s all for now, Andy

No one can say that the Philistines were the original inhabbitants of the land because that is simply FALSE. If one person who says that would pick up a history book they would learn that the very first inhabbitants of the land were the Canaanites and the Jew conquered them for the land. When the Jews conquered the Canaanites the Arab people had yet to immigrate that far west to even know that a land exsited that belonged to the Jews. Everyone needs to stop saying that Philistines were the original inhabbitants of ther land because that is simply not true.

And here inlies the core problem. You simpley have two different philosophies on who has the "right" to Isreal.

marine16 intreprets the Bible as saying that Jews have the right to Isreal by divine mandate.

againstwar intreprets the Bible as saying that the Jews have no right to be there because they were not the origonal inhabitants. Those were the Philistines.

Either way, Isreal is a country that should and will remain independent as a sovergien nation. The UN mandated it, they have been living there for over half a century now, and the origonal generations that were displaced are reaching the ends of thier life spans. Other than that, I'll refrain for now.

proudconservative- That's another debate, you will find there is a topic already started. Evolution vs. Creationism

For all of you talking about the bible and so forth. What good hascome from religion but wars ad killings? Not only recently in the middle east but such as the crusades centuies ago. Why must a man made thing such as religion bring horrible events about? How can one religion tel the reset of the world that tey are going to hell when they themselves are the minority...this make no sense for such a wonderf thing as religion. Religio was started to explain thigs which man themselves could not, why is there a sun? must be a sun god and so on. Ther is scientific fact to explain evolution but no fact but a book witten by man himself for creationism. Facts usully win.

Againstwar, I have found that your arguements are this...1)You hate Israel, but not as much as Palestine 2)You are from Lebanon 3)You are an Arab Christian 3)The BIble supports the arguements I have made 4)History supports the arguements I have made 5)Palestien starts everything with Israel and 6) I am ignorant.

I can find no other arguement in your posts. Everything you say seems to back my arguement that Israel is just (Especially 3,4 and 5)and you are calling me ignorant. You arguement, 6, that I am ignorant is abusrd becuase you yourself have opnely agreed with me and openly provided Biblical and historical facts to back me. Perhaps you should consider withdrawing from this post is those are the only arguements you can make.

Anyone smart enough to understand would have understood by now.I believe that the messages I have posted are enough to convince a complete ignorant. I won't waste my time in trying to convince the rest.
Marine if you really want to understand you can find all the answers in my posts. I don't feel the need to repeat myself, the arguments are clearly presented, sorry.

Againstwar, you seem to be graspng for straws and I can not find one arguement inn any of your posts. All I can find is quotations and facts that prove my point. Please state your arguement so we can have a discussion, not a misinterpreted-quotation-fest.

Believe it or not, Palestinians have caused more damage to my nation than Israel ever did. TRUE they both killed toooooo many Lebanese. Palestine was the reason of 20 yrs of war in Lebanon, & as for Israel, well...I bet you didn't even know that it had occupied the southern of Leb, did you? & did you know that even though Israel made it publically known that it had completely left the Lebanese land, it has not. There's still villages in south leb under the control of Israelis, but of course how would you know that?(this is to explain to you that brainwashing works, the media you get your info from never mentions anything bad about Israel, & if it's CNN... helloooooo? CNN is jewish!!)
I hate Palestine even more than I hate Israel. You're probably asking yourself why am I defending a country that i hate? The answer is simple: I'M NOT! I'm defending JUSTICE not Palestine, no matter how much I hate this country, this won't change the fact that it's a victim in the palestinian-israeli conflict!!!!! I'm just defending the innocent, Palestine hasn't been correct in everything it has done, but in this case I can't find a way to blame her.This is what I mean by being objective not subjective! You should all do the same. The truth should be known.

If after all I've said & with history & the Bible right in front of you, you still think that the land of Palestine is "the Jew's not the Palestinians" then I judge the situation completely helpless!
& if you honestly think that what I said was THIS, then I hold on to what I said about you being ignorant... reread my last two comments.
"Anyone who calls Israel the homeland of the Palestiniens is a fool. Anyone who blames their current war on Israel is a fool because Palestien instigates every military action taken against their 'country'" you obviously didn't read anythin I've written! & I don't feel like repeating myself.

Againstwar, I am confussed. You are in agreence with my arguement that the Bible and History proves that the land of Israel's is the Jew's not the Palestinians yet you call me ignorant. Are you calling your own opinion ignorant? I have said everything you have excpet I simply paraphrased. My arguement was more than sufficent without quotations.

Because of the fact that our arguements and facts are the same, and you are calling me and Bushsupporter 'ignorant' for agreeing with you, I am begining to think you are simply generalizing and speculating that everything I say is 'ignorant'. I ask that before you make claims like that again that you read my posts.

Anyone who calls Israel the homeland of the Palestiniens is a fool. Anyone who blames their current war on Israel is a fool because Palestien instigates every military action taken against their 'country'.