You don't want Guns in the society?then take them out of the movies.With cine-looks and HD the idiots make gun-usage look cool.

Great point. Or how Sarah Brady bought a gun for her son a few years back, committing a "straw purchase" by doing so. It's funny how the most anti-gun zealots always seem to surrounded themselves with guns. There's a saying in politics for that: "Gun control for thee, not for me."

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Originally posted by NuShoesAgain:
Moreover, the fact that they _DO_ carry them proves that guns ultimately are more likely to be used to protect people rather than kill innocents.

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Heh, Diane Feinstein, known for her ardent support of gun-rights and freedom, at one point had the only CCW permit in San Fransisco.

Tragedy existed and mass-carnage existed before guns and probably will exist when the next weapon is developed, regardless of who has them. However, people do need guns for self-defense. That's why cops and the military carry them. There is no logical reason why government officials are entitled to a means of protecting themselves when you aren't, especially seeing as that their job is to serve you, as the taxpayer. Moreover, the fact that they DO carry them proves that guns ultimately are more likely to be used to protect people rather than kill innocents. If guns really "cause tragedy", then there is no possible justification for police or military to possess them.

If you want to reduce tragedy, get at the root causes. Start by banning media violence, including violent music. There isn't much sense in teaching people that violence is good and an acceptable way to deal with problems.

if gun werent in our society we would not have do deal with any of these tradegies so why not just get rid of them i ask why does one need to own a gun. if the people think they need them for protection well if no one eles is gonna shoot u why do u neet to shoot them
gun sould be limited to the military and police force and stuff like that

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Then obviously they are made up, and you're an idiot if you believe them.

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That's very interesting: You gun control freaks embrace government statistics when they support your point-of-view, such as those phony figures that supposedly claim 5,000 children die each year by gunfire. Why the sudden change of heart?

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I'm not a gun control freak.

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Most gun control advocates seem to be less concerned about violence reduction than control in general. And statements you made about not wanting the military and presumably the police (i.e. the government) from disarming seem to support that. More on this later.

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Hey, here's a hint; that was cliché and generally retarted the first time you used it. Repeating things over and over doesn't make them any more correct or even more intelligent sounding...

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It is nonetheless 100% true, regardless of how many times it's been said. You said you do not support the disarming of the military, which means you realize on some level that guns ultimately protect and serve more good than harm. Either you don't believe citizens are deserving of the right to safety and the preservation of life, or you prefer government to have control over people's safety - and perhaps everything else.

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It's not hypocritical to say melodromatic trailer trash shouldn't have guns, yet trained military professionals should

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Many if not most of the "trailer trash" you are talking about are veterans - be it of Vietnam, the Gulf, etc. - who know far more about guns than any cop who takes a piddling 20 hours of training. They ARE professionals. As professional as you can get. And I've noticed most of the pro-gun folks you'll find on message boards like these, at gun clubs, members of gun-related organizations either are active-duty, had prior service, or had/have a spouse in the military.

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it's logical, and if you can't comprehend that mind-blowingly complex concept you are pretty ****ing dumb.

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Actually, it shows whata bigot you are. Even your so-called "trailer trash" deserves the right to safety and life - as much a right as inner city trash. The fact that you discriminate against folks who aren't as rich as you only proves that people of your ilk don't give a sh-- about the poor or the working class. The ones who, it just so happens, to be the most vulnerable to crime.

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Yes; that's it, clearly saying you don't like violence means the exact opposite of that. Ghandi was one vicious S.O.B.

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There are exceptions. I was thinking more of the A.N.S.W.E.R. and 60's radical-types who carry Molotov Cocktails to "peace" marches.

At any rate, you're making the same arguments and statements I've seen at least a hundred times before: You get backed into a logical corner so you advocate people kill themselves or each other with their guns, by some other means. You gave some example of some "Martha" taking me out. I take it this is alter-ego. At any rate, you wouldn't get very far.

Anyway, all that aside, the point is that it is gun control freaks who are unstable, and who believe that everybody else is as whacked out as they are. New York Times columninst Maureen Dowd best summed up the (il)logic of gun control freaks when she wrote in an op-ed column following the Columbine massacre: 'It's too easy for somebody like me ... who flies in fits of rage occasionally ... to purchase a gun like this.' (This is paraphrased, as I no longer have the actual article itself saved on my computer from which to quote exactly. IIRC, it ran on May 9, 1999.)

-----"""The statistics, at least the state statistic in the link I provided, don't bear that out."""

Then obviously they are made up, and you're an idiot if you believe them.


-----""" Gun control freaks seem to be in love with comparing guns to nuclear weapons, guided missiles, etc."""

I'm not a gun control freak.


-----"""You want to enjoy the protective benefits of guns, but you want someone else to do the dirty work for you."""

Hey, here's a hint; that was cliché and generally retarted the first time you used it. Repeating things over and over doesn't make them any more correct or even more intelligent sounding...but I suppose it's how the slower people convince themselves something is right. It's not hypocritical to say melodromatic trailer trash shouldn't have guns, yet trained military professionals should; it's logical, and if you can't comprehend that mind-blowingly complex concept you are pretty ****ing dumb.


-----"""Yeah, figures. Those who advocate gun control and "peace" are almost always the most violent people of all."""

Yes; that's it, clearly saying you don't like violence means the exact opposite of that. Ghandi was one vicious S.O.B.

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We should be focusing more on the people who have guns, rather than guns in general.

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Exactly. How about the first step to focusing on the people who have guns being to not arm them with guns.

Or do you suggest the best way to deal with them is to shoot them?

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I am against Violence and guns not only are violent but i think they make people want to be violent.

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If you are against violence then you should be fully pro-gun, as those who would commit violence are deterred by armed would-be victims. There is a reason why the police and miliary have guns - protection and deterrence.

Plus, if you are at all truly against violence, would you join me in supporting a total ban on media violence, tougher restrictions on the press where it concerns the presentation and promotion of violence, tougher consequences for drug offenses, and the elimination of poverty? In other words, would you join me in supporting the elimination, at least to whatever extent possible, of the root causes of violence?

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That's a lie. A gun kills a lot more easily than any other common object that might be thrown in a fit of domestic anger.

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The statistics, at least the state statistic in the link I provided, don't bear that out.

Also, you conveniently forget that a gun protects more easily than any other common object.

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It's a simile, mofo.

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A really stupid one. Gun control freaks seem to be in love with comparing guns to nuclear weapons, guided missiles, etc. Which goes to show just how irrational they are.

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No. I don't support the military disarmnig.

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They you are a hypocrite. I do not intend to be insulting, just to point out a fact, just as it is true of virtually all gun control advocates. You want to enjoy the protective benefits of guns, but you want someone else to do the dirty work for you. If you honestly believe that guns kill, then you cannot justify the police or military having them, either.

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I'm saying people shouldn't have guns.

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Again, if you honestly believe that guns are bad and that they really cause death and misery, there no justification for the police or military to have them, unless you believe the purpose of your government is to cause death and misery among its citizens. Which only comes back to why we have the right to bear arms in the first place.

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I'm not saying anything about it being made a law; although it could; our constitution is changeable you idiot, why do you think there are so many people willing to change it (yourself included, if I remember correctly) to ban gay marriage.

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Yes, it is. I would support an restricting or repealment of the First Amendment (I've come to care as little about the rights you hold dear as you do mine.) I would support heavy modifications to the Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh Amendments so criminals have fewer protections. And I'd support a victim's rights amendment. That's probably about it.

Incidentally, as usual, you were wrong. And, as usual, your own prejudice led you to assume I'm against gay marriage. Even though I'm becoming increasingly unsupportive of gay rights (primarily due to the blind allegiance to the radical left), I never said I was opposed to gay marriage. I said it was a stupid wedge issue that people on both sides have fallen for.

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It wouldn't do much good. Martha and I would break out together, and hunt you down. I'm against killing; but Martha would cut you in a second.

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Yeah, figures. Those who advocate gun control and "peace" are almost always the most violent people of all. I can cite a litany of examples - that Million Mom March organizer who blew away some innocent kid right before the big 2000 march, Hollywood, Maureen Dowd, etc. Obviously, the reason gun control freaks don't trust us with guns (and Dowd said this outright in a column right after Columbine) is that she thinks everybody else is as whacked out as you folks are. Sorry, we're not.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. We should be focusing more on the people who have guns, rather than guns in general.

I think guns are unnecessary...I am against Violence and guns not only are violent but i think they make people want to be violent. People feel powerful when they hold a gun and the thought of power and authority i think is what ultimately pulls the trigger. When it comes to hunting: i think guns are cruel, i think hunting is cruel in general, but some people do actually use the animals they catch for meat; so if a dead deer feeds a poor man's starving children for the winter then kill away, but hunting for sport is cruel.

-----"""Domestic abusers kill just as efficiently and more often with non-gun objects than with guns."""

That's a lie. A gun kills a lot more easily than any other common object that might be thrown in a fit of domestic anger.


-----"""Uhhh, no. Nuclear weapons are area weapons designed to wipe out people by the millions and lay waste to many square miles. No firearms are, despite what gun control freaks would like us to believe."""

It's a simile, mofo.


-----"""If you are so confident that fewer guns means less violence, are you willing to put your money (or your life) where your mouth is and call for the complete disarming of the police and military, as well as criminals? """

No. I don't support the military disarmnig. I'm saying people shouldn't have guns. I'm not saying anything about it being made a law; although it could; our constitution is changeable you idiot, why do you think there are so many people willing to change it (yourself included, if I remember correctly) to ban gay marriage.


-----"""You're an example of the kind of person that would be better off in jail."""

It wouldn't do much good. Martha and I would break out together, and hunt you down. I'm against killing; but Martha would cut you in a second.

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Obviously. However none of those things can kill with the pulling of a shaky trigger finger. At least with those items, a death is not likely to result from an attack.

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So, you'd sleep better at night if people died from a nice, violent slashing motion rather than a shaky trigger finger?

Domestic abusers kill just as efficiently and more often with non-gun objects than with guns. Here's an example from a state with high gun-ownership rates.

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Uhhhhhh...no. That's like saying a world in which every country has nuclear weapons is less likely to witness a nuclear attack than a world in which no countries have nuclear weapons.

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Uhhh, no. Nuclear weapons are area weapons designed to wipe out people by the millions and lay waste to many square miles. No firearms are, despite what gun control freaks would like us to believe.

Rather, it's critical for civilians to own guns for self-defense, and we should adopt a Swiss-type system. If you are so confident that fewer guns means less violence, are you willing to put your money (or your life) where your mouth is and call for the complete disarming of the police and military, as well as criminals? Because only then can the disarmament of civilians be justified, and even the Second Amendment cannot be used to justify civil gun ownership then.

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How bout instead; go after the violent people and take their means of intimidation. Vigilante justice is only a good thing in the movies.

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I wasn't talking about vigilantism, but I'll bite. It makes more sense to eliminate the root causes, by executing drug offenders and banning media violence outright. Methods of intimidation will always exist, as long as knives exist, as long as people are born with hands and feet, and so on. And the violence you refer to being "only a good thing in movies" is a major root cause of the problem, which has to be eliminated.

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You're the type of guy I'd describe as trailer trash. Woman.

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Unless you are in grad school at 17, I am apparently far more educated than you. You're an example of the kind of person that would be better off in jail.

-----"""And if they have a steak knife, they use that. And if they have a boxcutter, they use that. And if they have a brick, they use that. """

Obviously. However none of those things can kill with the pulling of a shaky trigger finger. At least with those items, a death is not likely to result from an attack.


-----"""It seems to be the solution to violence, period - give people a means to protect themselves from violence, rather than allow violent people to get away with whatever they desire."""

Uhhhhhh...no. That's like saying a world in which every country has nuclear weapons is less likely to witness a nuclear attack than a world in which no countries have nuclear weapons. How bout instead; go after the violent people and take their means of intimidation. Vigilante justice is only a good thing in the movies.


-----"""P.S. Back in January, a local doctor killed his wife in a fit of rage, who had allegedly been cheating on him. While I'm sure you can sleep comfortably knowing that he did not use a gun - he beat her head against the pavement of the family driveway - he's not quite the type of guy you would describe as "trailer trash.""""

You're the type of guy I'd describe as trailer trash. Woman.

Eeeeeeekkkkkk..... I have a cousin who get these who fits of rage my family thinks he's gonna shoot somebody in anger one day.

P.S. Back in January, a local doctor killed his wife in a fit of rage, who had allegedly been cheating on him. While I'm sure you can sleep comfortably knowing that he did not use a gun - he beat her head against the pavement of the family driveway - he's not quite the type of guy you would describe as "trailer trash."

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LOL! THAT'S the solution to gun violence! Equip everyone with guns!

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It seems to be the solution to violence, period - give people a means to protect themselves from violence, rather than allow violent people to get away with whatever they desire.

BTW, seems to work for the Swiss...

-----"""Not too many people go, in a fit of blinding rage, to the bank at midnight and take out $500, and then find a gunshop that is open. Then load it, then drive back home to commit the deed...most of the crimes of which you are talking are impulse crimes, and the actors use whatever is convenient, such as knives, sticks, bricks, and so on."""

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And if they have a gun; they use that. Even if they're only planning to threaten or scare someone with it.

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And if they have a steak knife, they use that. And if they have a boxcutter, they use that. And if they have a brick, they use that. I realize gun control freaks believe you are "more dead" if you get shot than if you get stabbed or beaten to death, but the bottom line is, you're still dead.

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Enraged trailer trash crazies shouldn't have guns in those situations, yet these are the people who are gonna get the guns.

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Neither should enranged white liberals. For that matter, they shouldn't have First Amendment rights either, seeing how they abuse those too.

-----"""So when an abused woman leaves her husband and tells the cops that he's a poor excuse for a man, and her husband is ****ing pissed, he can go right out and buy a gun to kill her with? Super idea, asshat."""

Lol, that's a great point. The asshat is the cherry on that sundae of a point.


-----"""It's far more likely that she would need a gun at a moments notice to defend herself against him."""

LOL! THAT'S the solution to gun violence! Equip everyone with guns!


-----"""Not too many people go, in a fit of blinding rage, to the bank at midnight and take out $500, and then find a gunshop that is open. Then load it, then drive back home to commit the deed...most of the crimes of which you are talking are impulse crimes, and the actors use whatever is convenient, such as knives, sticks, bricks, and so on."""

And if they have a gun; they use that. Even if they're only planning to threaten or scare someone with it. Enraged trailer trash crazies shouldn't have guns in those situations, yet these are the people who are gonna get the guns.