quote:It won't be, and if it is I'll talk my way out of it. Carrying a gun around waiting for something that has about a .000001 % chance of happening is stupid. Are you honestly worried about being held up at gunpoint?
Hmm, yeah, all violent criminals are reasonable individuals who you can "just talk to. Especially when they're on drugs. Yeah, they're reasonable people. That's why they are committing honest violent crimes. </sarcasm off>
quote:hy is it all the gun crazies are the only ones who say they were in situatioins in which a gun could have saved them? Because they are either exaggerating or lying.
That's why some of us are so passionate about this. Particularly those of us that aren't fond of hunting, but of guns for self-defense purposes. It is, in fact, most gun control freaks I've found to lie. Actually, they are quite pathological about their lying. I remember, back in Philly when the 2000 GOP convention was being held, some gun control advocacy group put up 3,000 empty pairs of shoes to symbolize every "child killed by guns each year," which were supposedly donated by victim's families. (They actually put up about 500, another example of their lying and stretching the truth.) Turned out all but a few pair were bought at Payless and Big K.
Liberals prefer equality - all people should be equally poor, unsafe and badly-educated.
quote:So when an abused woman leaves her husband and tells the cops that he's a poor excuse for a man, and her husband is ****ing pissed, he can go right out and buy a gun to kill her with? Super idea, asshat.
It's far more likely that she would need a gun at a moments notice to defend herself against him. Not too many people go, in a fit of blinding rage, to the bank at midnight and take out $500, and then find a gunshop that is open. Then load it, then drive back home to commit the deed...most of the crimes of which you are talking are impulse crimes, and the actors use whatever is convenient, such as knives, sticks, bricks, and so on.
Moreover, I can think of many good reasons to have a waiting period AND background check before exercising the First Amendment. A background check is useful to ensure that a person doesn't have a history of lying or committing libel/slander. And a waiting period (especially on the press) would help prevent irresponsible media outlets from poisoning everything from criminal investigations to military operations, and would also ensure that the press has time to do fact-checking rather than go with sketchy information. Frankly, I can't think of a reason [not to have waiting periods and background checks on the speech.
P.S. The inane, uninformed commentary by some about firearms only reinforce that point.
Liberals prefer equality - all people should be equally poor, unsafe and badly-educated.
quote:Maybe they just don't see the necessity of having something that can kill another human being, purposely or accidentally. If you're worried about self defense, get mace or a taser or take karate lessons. 99.99% of people will never need to use any of these, but at least knowing karate is cool and healthy for you.
If you're so concerned about people "they just don't see the necessity of having something that can kill another human being, purposely or accidentally," to use your words, then you should be paranoid of everyone who owns and automobile, a knife, a bottle of bleach...
quote:Having a gun is lame and healthy for the gun company. If you need a gun to feel safe you are paranoid and need to relax. I'm not saying guns should be banned. I just have little respect for most people who have them, because they don't need them whatsoever.
And I have zero respect for those who advocate their control and/or dislike them, because they still want the protective benefit of guns. They just want others to take responsibility for protecting them.
Liberals prefer equality - all people should be equally poor, unsafe and badly-educated.
quote:Invest in karate classes, or buy some super strong pepper spray. There's less of a chance that you could end up accidentally killing youself by practicing karate or using pepper spray than buy carrying a loaded gun around.
Two of the most worthless tools in modern self-defense. Karate does you a lot of good against a guy with a gun or a knife, or while you're in bed during the break-in.
Liberals prefer equality - all people should be equally poor, unsafe and badly-educated.
quote: in the case of an emergency, I would have a weapon of reasonable force for self defense,
Invest in karate classes, or buy some super strong pepper spray. There's less of a chance that you could end up accidentally killing youself by practicing karate or using pepper spray than buy carrying a loaded gun around.
When the president talks to god are the conversations brief or long? Does he ask to rape our women's rights and send more farm kids off to die? Does God suggest an oil hike when the president talks to god?
quote:Originally posted by ICELAND: -----"""Take into consideration that the whole Revolutionary militia were not soldiers nor police officers by trade."""
That was 200 years ago when the U.S. didn't have it's own army and it was under British rule.
Are you going to debate founder intent with me? See, a LOT of people think the Constitution was made to be a panacea to current problems. So, should we change the whole thing just because it was written 200 years ago? What about that wonderful Freedom of Speech, is that outdated?
My point is not only was it to be a preventative measure from the King's army, but it was also a future thought to prevent the government from controlling the right to self-defense.
quote: -----"""Ahh, yes. That sounds so nice. We'll go and kick/electrecute the hell out of a criminal."""
It's better than killing them.
You miss the point. They'll shoot you first.
quote: -----"""You won't be so healthy if its you with your body versus a criminal with a pistol."""
It won't be, and if it is I'll talk my way out of it. Carrying a gun around waiting for something that has about a .000001 % chance of happening is stupid. Are you honestly worried about being held up at gunpoint?
First off, verify your statistic before you go blurting it out. Second off, how about we remove all safety systems from Roller Coaster rides? They don't have problems often! I would rather know that in the case of an emergency, I would have a weapon of reasonable force for self defense, than to catch myself barehanded.
quote: -----"""The reason Guns were placed into the Constitution was to prevent other people with guns. """
Back then people used guns to hunt for their food all the time. They were also in a state of tenuous rebellion and revolution.
Yes, yes, but then someone found out that they, along with a bunch of other dangerous things, could kill. Why would the king take away hunting weapons?
See, you're assuming the the Constitution voids itself. You can translate it any way you want, it is very clear. We are given the right to hold a gun, keep it, and use it. I never saw an expiration date on the Constitution.
-----"""Take into consideration that the whole Revolutionary militia were not soldiers nor police officers by trade."""
That was 200 years ago when the U.S. didn't have it's own army and it was under British rule.
-----"""Ahh, yes. That sounds so nice. We'll go and kick/electrecute the hell out of a criminal."""
It's better than killing them.
-----"""You won't be so healthy if its you with your body versus a criminal with a pistol."""
It won't be, and if it is I'll talk my way out of it. Carrying a gun around waiting for something that has about a .000001 % chance of happening is stupid. Are you honestly worried about being held up at gunpoint?
-----"""The reason Guns were placed into the Constitution was to prevent other people with guns. """
Back then people used guns to hunt for their food all the time. They were also in a state of tenuous rebellion and revolution.
"To see the world in a grain of sand, and heaven in a wild flower. Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour..." -William Blake
Can you tell if a gun is loaded when you look at it? If you can't, then how can a robber? And I'm not saying you have to keep them separate, I'm just saying I think it's safest, so your kids don't end up shooting each other or themselves.
quote: there isnt a waiting period for the first amendment, there shouldnt be one for the second
So when an abused woman leaves her husband and tells the cops that he's a poor excuse for a man, and her husband is ****ing pissed, he can go right out and buy a gun to kill her with? Super idea, asshat.
When the president talks to god are the conversations brief or long? Does he ask to rape our women's rights and send more farm kids off to die? Does God suggest an oil hike when the president talks to god?
quote:Originally posted by ICELAND: -----"""As I've mentioned here several times before, so have I, to stop a break-in."""
Why is it all the gun crazies are the only ones who say they were in situatioins in which a gun could have saved them? Because they are either exaggerating or lying.
Talk about exaggerating. "All the Gun Crazies" assumes that: 1. Every single gun fanatic, A-Z, always claim this 2. You have perfect proof that they are exaggerating or lying.
quote: -----"""But, they want to enjoy the protection of guns - they just don't want you or me to have one, that's all."""
What's so bad about that. You're not a trained soldier/police officer.
Take into consideration that the whole Revolutionary militia were not soldiers nor police officers by trade. What happens when a Soldier/Police Officer are not available? Personally, I'd rather shoot somebody than get shot.
quote: -----"""Otherwise, all gun control advocates are worthless hypocrites who want others to do their dirty work for them and protect them from harm."""
Maybe they just don't see the necessity of having something that can kill another human being, purposely or accidentally. If you're worried about self defense, get mace or a taser or take karate lessons.
Ahh, yes. That sounds so nice. We'll go and kick/electrecute the hell out of a criminal. Hopefully before he/she shoots us. There is a reason the Gun has replaced the Sword and the fist.
quote: 99.99% of people will never need to use any of these, but at least knowing karate is cool and healthy for you.
You won't be so healthy if its you with your body versus a criminal with a pistol.
quote: Having a gun is lame and healthy for the gun company. If you need a gun to feel safe you are paranoid and need to relax.
You need to understand a vital concept. A criminal does not walk into your house barehanded. The reason Guns were placed into the Constitution was to prevent other people with guns. The Law only applies to those who follow it- a criminal is going to carry a gun.
quote: I'm not saying guns should be banned. I just have little respect for most people who have them, because they don't need them whatsoever.
I'll somewhat agree with you there. There's an overabundance of people who have more firepower than "Self Defense" defines. I was amazed at how they are now letting people buy automatic weapons (Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the prevention of civillians handling automatic weapons end a month or so ago?). Personally, I would be the type to buy a small pistol, but I'm in no rush to purchase an AK-47.
-Some call me a wandering soul. Some call me a traveler without a purpose or destination. Some call me diffrent, resevered, maybe even dangerous. What I truly am is what you'll have to find out for yourself.
-----"""As I've mentioned here several times before, so have I, to stop a break-in."""
Why is it all the gun crazies are the only ones who say they were in situatioins in which a gun could have saved them? Because they are either exaggerating or lying.
-----"""But, they want to enjoy the protection of guns - they just don't want you or me to have one, that's all."""
What's so bad about that. You're not a trained soldier/police officer.
-----"""Otherwise, all gun control advocates are worthless hypocrites who want others to do their dirty work for them and protect them from harm."""
Maybe they just don't see the necessity of having something that can kill another human being, purposely or accidentally. If you're worried about self defense, get mace or a taser or take karate lessons. 99.99% of people will never need to use any of these, but at least knowing karate is cool and healthy for you. Having a gun is lame and healthy for the gun company. If you need a gun to feel safe you are paranoid and need to relax. I'm not saying guns should be banned. I just have little respect for most people who have them, because they don't need them whatsoever.
"To see the world in a grain of sand, and heaven in a wild flower. Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour..." -William Blake
quote:Actually my dad had to use one once, he never shot the guy, just pointed it at him.
As I've mentioned here several times before, so have I, to stop a break-in. I never fired a shot either. Most crooks are looking for easy prey; most people don't want to be on the business end of any kind of weapon.
Liberals prefer equality - all people should be equally poor, unsafe and badly-educated.
Guns bring joy. Shooting is a lot of fun. Guns bring safety, witness the fact that people in all societies, regardless of culture, benefit from their protective uses. Some may relegate them only into the hands of the police, military, politician's bodyguards, etc. But the fact is, almost nobody disputes this fact. Whether or not they want to admit it is another story.
And, if you honestly believe that guns cause death, then you should logically be advocating that police, military, and bodyguards give them up too.
Liberals prefer equality - all people should be equally poor, unsafe and badly-educated.
I don't like guns at all. I actually started a debate in my language class last year, about guns. I was saying that if I had the power to, I would outlaw guns altogether. In my opinion, they just promote hate and violence. I don't event think the police or military should use them. (of course, I'm against military and wars completely.) I know that is terribly idealistic, but why not dream? Dream of a world without any violence, hatered, guns, etc. I know we will probably always have guns, but I wish we didn't. Also, I believe guns are wrong when used for hunting purposes. Guns just bring death. Be it animals, people, enemies, or friends, people die from guns every day.
People use guns in self-defense 2.5 million times a year. And potentially even more, by some studies. That's far from "you'll never need to use one." Moreover, ever wonder why cops carry guns? Because they save lives; if a gun was really more likely to be used against you than to protect you, there is no way one could justify police carrying and possessing them. Particularly so-called "assault weapons".
The fact is, everybody realizes, on some level, that guns save lives, and they are used to protect more often than they injure or kill. Otherwise, gun control advocates would advocate that police and the military disarm as well. But, they want to enjoy the protection of guns - they just don't want you or me to have one, that's all.
If you are at all serious about eliminating guns from society, at least call on the police to disarm, if not the military. Aside from setting a good example, it will render the intended purpose of the Second Amendment meaningless. In other words, the Second Amendment was intended to prevent government from oppressing the people; completely disarm the government, and with a completely disarmed government, the Second Amendment can no longer be used to justify gun ownership, at least as it was Constitutionally intended.
Otherwise, all gun control advocates are worthless hypocrites who want others to do their dirty work for them and protect them from harm.
Again, if you're honestly interested in reducing violence, so far your best realistic course of action is cracking down hard on any form of drug use and dealing, banning media violence (including commonsense regulations on news reporting - no sense in turning mass-murderers into celebrities), and more incentives to get people in poverty out of it. In other words, it makes more sense to control or eliminate the root causes of violence and despair.
Liberals prefer equality - all people should be equally poor, unsafe and badly-educated.
I don't like guns, and I wouldn't ever own one. I think if you have a gun you should keep your gun and ammunition separate, especially if you have young children. I do think guns kill people, but if guns didn't exist, people would find another way to kill. I think the NRA is disgusting, but it's their right to be disgusting, just as it's the right of most citizens to own guns. I think that there should be extensive background checks, and possibly a longer waiting period. Just because I don't support guns doesn't mean I have the right to tell everyone else they shouldn't, and that's the only real reason I'm not saying that.
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