Communism was a very good idea. Unfortunately, it also only works when your leaders are compassionate. Look at Stalin and the old Soviet Union. Sure, everyone was "equal" but that didn't stop the poor from being mistreated. The Soviet Union was just like a capitalist nation without the free speech. However, just as extreme democracy can be bad, communism isn't exactly the best thing. Socialism seems to be the more successful way of doing things. That's my opinion. Ridicule it if you wish.

I read Animal Farm in school this year and we learned about the ,um, well if you have read it you will know what i mean, but, communism was a good idea gone wrong.

bantabaco, what's with all of this revival?

Good Idea Gone Bad

Think about it.Pure equallity.Its what every goverment wishes they had.The idea alone is simply perfect but its human nature that turned it into something bad.

I am going to get Richard Simmons to ***** slap the person who revived this thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by bantabaco:
Well, communism is an idea that the United States of America have practically declared an evil idea, now everyone that is a commy is taken as an evil person but no actually im a comunist and i think that comunism is the best idea for a government the thing is that no government has taken it seriously and it always turns out wrong, if you havent noticed Russia was better of with the USSR and the comunist regime as it is now, now Russia is the poorest country of Europe and the poorest country of Asia it is a serious problem. I think that people thinik that comunism is evil because of the propaganda that the US gives it.

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Money isn't everything; for example, when the commies were in power, they were responsible for the bloodsehed of about 66 million of thier own citizens.

Communism is evil because it holds that it is better for a person to have his possesions controlled by the state, than owning them himself. It is not the government's place to control a man's possesions, nor is it the government's place to tamper with the economy.

Communism is definately an interesting idea to toy around with but it just seems flawed from my view.

The basic problem is: Does the brain surgeon want to be earning the same salary as the hospital janitor?

Another problem: In a successful communist government, there would be no government. But that never works because people just do not conform completely and disagreements will always spring up (who's working harder, he doesn't deserve the same amount of money). Yes, it is a nice theory but it's still flawed and it just won't work unless you're dealing with a programmed robot society. Humans just aren't built to conform like that.

Marine, you are just opening yourself up for attack. People will find you kind of rude if you're too outspoken. Simply stating the facts in a less hurtful or attacking manner works better when trying to prove a point. Plus, it doesn't make everyone angry with you.

people are afraid of expressing their ideas towards comunism because of the fear that people will hate them, if you are comunist there is no problem its your idea and we respect it

Yes, I agree with bantabaco..

The US has done a pretty good job at making communism seem like the worst thing in the world. And well I would make it look bad too if I were THE example of capitalism in the world. People are seriously scared of communism it's shocking. Just go home with a Che t-shirt.. your parents will probably freak.

(And no, I don't want this to turn into a Che t-shirts discussion, it's just an example)

Well, communism is an idea that the United States of America have practically declared an evil idea, now everyone that is a commy is taken as an evil person but no actually im a comunist and i think that comunism is the best idea for a government the thing is that no government has taken it seriously and it always turns out wrong, if you havent noticed Russia was better of with the USSR and the comunist regime as it is now, now Russia is the poorest country of Europe and the poorest country of Asia it is a serious problem. I think that people thinik that comunism is evil because of the propaganda that the US gives it.

It might help if we define 'socialism' and 'communism'.
Communism is bad because it still advocates a ruling force, however the end goal is no need for ruling classes which is a noble goal.
Marx's theories often used circular reasoning (mainly in how to define classes and the class war) but it was a goo attempt to practically attempt communism. What it turned into (Stalinism, Maoism, etc.) wasn't kosher by any meaning.

Anybody read 'Wild Swans'? It's about communism in china, it's an amazing book. One of the things that was so interesting about it was that it started off as an idea of communism, but ended up more like dictatorship (a bit like communism in russia ended up).
Communism is a good theory, but in reality, it gets taken to extremes and it just Doesn't Work.

For instance, in China, Mao (evil communist dictator- reminds me of hitler in some respects) took the whole equality thing to such extremes that nobody was allowed to be smarter than anybody else, this threw things into chaos when people like teachers or scientists, basically anybody who did something smart for a living, were discriminated against.
A bit later in his life he was obviously completely nuts, as he decided that he didn't like colour any more, and school was stopped, the kids were sent out onto the school fields to pull up grass because it was too green.
Imagine how nuts you'd have to be to ban GRASS!
And people worshipped this guy, they lived in fear of saying anything against him because they'd be killed.
It's a completely fascinating bit of history.
Read Wild Swans if you're interested.

Strangelove, incase you can't read, the topic is about what Marx wrote, not about this mix and match communism you made up. And it is funny that you refer to The Communist Manifesto as Marxism. Are you aware that two people wrote it, not just Marx? Did you forget about Engles? Marx's later volumes, Capital, are about Marxsism. The Communist Manifesto is the basis for all forms of communism and is thus, true communism. Frued did not develope pyschology, but a division of it. Marx and Engles created communism, and Marx created a division of it. I find it hysterical that you call The Communist Manifesto 'Marxsism' when every one of credit calls it communism! Ask yourself this, who created communism and when? (Marx and Engeles with The Communist Manifesto.) Who created Marxsism and when? (Marx, in Capital which was written after The Communist Manifesto) It is obvious that your last post was just damage control.

The quotes that you posted were written by Karl Marx, and therefore fall under the type of communism called Marxism. Similar to psycology, where Freud's origonal observations touched off a new and distinct school of sceince, communism has evolved as a philosophy into many diffent variations. Pure Marxism, like pure Freudian ideas, are dead or discounted. There are many different communist/socialist ideas out there, most of which (at least in my experiance) support some kind of PURE democratic control over everything. Then you have worker co-ops, which is a completely different (and vastly more vialble) concept, one which is actually implemented in several succesful companies in the US.

Allow me to qoute the Communist Manifesto. Feel free to double check me; all my qoutes are accurate and not manipulated in any way.

"In this sense, the theory of communism may be summed up in the single sentence; Abolition of private property."

"The communists further reproached with the desiring to abolish countries and nationality.'

"There are, besides, eternal truth, such as freedom, justice, etc., that are common to all states and society. But Communism ablosihes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to apast historical expierence"

Some of the applications of communism follow...

"Abolition of all rights of inheritance."
"Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly."
"Centralization of the means of communicat and transport in the hands of the State."

Any normal person would find the above qoutes repulsive. The above qoutes prove communism is a horrible idea, even from its start. If anyone does think that the above things will lead to a better society they are sad and pathetic.

Strangelove, this is interesting. No where does Marx ever talk about a total 'democracy'. Infact he talks about the overtrow of the upperclass, followed by the ruling of a dictator to set the plans in motion. Mark then says that the Dictator will eventually phase out and no government will be needed. If one is inclinded enough to venture into his later work, Capital, Marx goes into greater dept on this matter. In Capital Marx says that the Dictator is replaced by 'political officers'. No where does Marx ever talk about every worker voting on everything the country does.

With this information no one can resonabley argue that communism is a good idea gone wronge.

In theory pure and absolute communism is a beautiful idea that will never work. Man is greedy by nature which shows in the communist countries throughout history. They are all led by a party who is elite and receives more than do the starving peasants. By having a party and party leader communism as it was meant to be can not be. Capitalism is obviously the best form of government known to man right now. Look at what countries are true world powers both in military and economically the vast majority of them will be capitalist.

I didn't alter your words and I'm sorry if you think I did. But I was just pointing out that some people might say that you're a slave to capitalism because you have to work to survive. Like you said, in capitalism you can quit your job, which is great, but then you get another job, or you suffer.

I also don't think it's right to say that capitalism is the only way. There's always more than one way, and unless you think that it is a flawless system, than I have no doubts that a better one can be created.

I know, but I was just pointing out flaws in your argument. sheesh, if you're going to get all emotional about it...
Besides, I WAS the one who started this topic, so I'm not going away anytime soon. And this is one of the few conversations where I can somewhat agree with how you feel, Marine. But I can agree with those on the other side of the argument too, so... Just chill, 'kay?

Redjill, your 'arguement' that the slavery that occured before the Civil War is similiar to what is going on in our current capitalist system is obsurd on so many levels I won't even dignify it with a response. You and I both know that is ridiculous and if that is all you have to back your 'arguement' then maybe you should withdraw from this prompt. I am talking about CURRENT capitalism and CURRENT communism and I always have been.

Heaven, do you know how those people who quite their jobs get by? The go get a new job!! that is capitalism. No one is bound to the same jobe for the rest of their life!!! (I also don't appreciate you altering what I say to 'fit' your arguement.)

Capitalism is the right way to go. It is the only way to go.

In capitalism, if someone doesn't like their job Marine says that they can quit and still get by, and that an example of this is stay-at-home moms. Does Marine honestly think that these moms, (in the majority of cases that haven't won the lottery), are getting by without some source of income from say, a husband, or a child? Or from having worked previously? If someone quits they're job how exactly will they get by on their own means??? In this way some can say they are a slave to capitalism.

"We work to eat to get strength to work to eat to get strength to work to eat to get strength..."
-John Dos Passos