yes, they are

if im a racist for hating the French's cowardice and lack of loyalty and integrity then the entire world is racist against the US. for fighting the terroists.

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i agree with bauhaus. in truth you are racist, or arrogant.

bauhaus,

ive explain on this thread why i am not racist. plz look at my answers before assuming that.


this post has proudly been deemd racism free by the Honorable Coalition of Bushsupporter, marine 16, notsojoey, FreemarketLover, and Redrepublican and their endless pursuit to cast out the bigotry that has infiltrated youthNOISE.

You speak so much about how you fight racism, but do you support the ACLU? how about the NAACP? Or UFW?

“Neither do I, but that that doesn't justify war. What about the 30 kids each day kidnapped in Uganda, what about when we used to kick the crap out of black people, rape, and lynch them, are you saying we should have been blown up. Maybe in some aspects we should have been, but overall no. Innocent people would have died. Our land would have been destroyed just like present day, how the land in France is still messed up and they can't grow a lot of crops. There are plenty of horrible things happening to innocent civilians and just b/c the media decided to shine a light on Iraq, doesn't mean that it's happening no where else, and if we were aware of all of the horrible things, then Iraq would not seem so bad. Say they did blow us up b/c we were killing black people, many of the blacks themselves would die, and the white people trying to help them, so then everyone would be angry. Sometimes you just have to let things work themselves out and instead of bombing them, you need to talk to their governments.”

Iraq is a very good example of why we need to stop tyrannical regimes. I told you there are children over there that are so malnourished you can see their hearts pumping. Disease is raging. This is why we need to see the videos of Saddam’s torture chambers, bin Ladne’s and Hussein’s satanic torture videos. To see what will happen to us if we don’t stop them and they are allowed to reign. We need to see the oil tanks that saddam used to dunk people. The human paper shredders. The hooks that saddam held people by. his gas chambers, his mass graves. It doesn’t get much worse then that. If we wouldn’t have seen the pictures of Nazi Germany’s concentration camps and all the atrocities (Holocaust) they committed, then we would not associate the things we do now with Hitler and his Nazi Germany. The Swastika would not have been a symbol of evil but just a symbol of a dead empire. They estimated about 6 million Jews were killed in WW II and no one would have believed that had it not been for the pictures. The American people need to be exposed to the evil we are facing and what we are dealing with and why we are over there. We tried negotiating with Saddam. We had been doing it ever since the end of the first Gulf War. We didn’t just wake up one morning and say “lets bomb Iraq for the hell of it” war was a last resort and we did use it as a last resort.

”And what about Mr. Bush now saying that American tax dollars aren't going to clean up Iraq, their oil money is? We bomb them and kill their people and now they have to clean it up themselves. But I'm sure, that of course we'll help by purchasing their oil even if they don't want to sell it to us, our military there will make them.”

We will not make them sell oil to us. It is their oil. Personally I have no idea why we need their oil when we have plenty in Alaska. The resources up there should be exploited. We are not making them clean it up themselves. Which is one of the reasons we need the French’s support is to help us in the clean up of Iraq.

”You said that you had no idea how anyone could perceive Bush as a terrorist. We'll there is a quote "evil will only prevail when good men do nothing" so in hopes that evil will not prevail you need to except that some do even if they are wrong in thinking so.”

Evil will only prevail if we sit around and do nothing. Which is why we needed to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. Why we needed to remove those leaders, which is why we need Bush in office because Kerry will do nothing but talk. (which, in no offense to you, is in my opinion the only thing that liberals do nowadays.) Evil things will not work themselves out to become something good. It is like a weed. If you don’t uproot it while you can, its roots will grow deeper and deeper and will keep hurting and killing the surrounding good plants. If we don’t take out terrorism while we can it will eventually get so big, there will be no way to stop it. Clinton could have started the War and Terrorism and really could have stopped terrorism but alas another missed opportunity of a failed presidency.


“ Now you need to figure out why, b/c I can guarantee you this, they do have valid reasons, and even though those valid reasons do not make Bush a terrorist, if you want your children to grow up in a more peaceful nation where they won't be bombed, then you need to figure out why and work w/ it to stop their hatred.”

If we do not stop terrorism now, they will think we are soft and will commit more terrorism attacks on us because they know we will not retaliate. The terrorists are not sensible people. They will stop at nothing to get their way. That’s why Usama bin Laden was laughing in our face when Clinton was president because bin Laden knew Clinton would do nothing to stop it. That’s why bin Laden committed so many attacks during Clinton’s presidency. Why do you think there was a terrorist attack right before the election of the Spanish president? Because the terrorists knew that if there was a terrorist attack, the people would throw their support behind the government that was not in power. (which I might add in this case was a liberal-like government) and look what happened. The liberal-like government was elected and they pulled their troops out of Iraq; they bowed to the terrorist’s wishes. Which is why I strongly believe there is a huge threat for a terrorist attack in the months leading up to November.



“That is what I mean by Einsteins theory of perception, if you grew up in Oman or Yemen or Saudi Arabia etc then you would probably hold some type of dislike towards the west (including western europe), and that dislike and hatred is not based on stupid reasons, their is substance and history there. It is some peoples perception that Bush is a terrorist, and some people believe Bin Laden is one. Now just imagine that both are terrorists, now you need to figure out why, b/c by thinking that the other side (perception) is wrong, we are creating the path for future wars and hatred.”

No the only children that will hate us will be the Muslim’s children because they are taught to hate us because America has Christian roots. The Muslims hate anyone who isn’t Islamic. Why do you think the Muslims hate Bush? It isn’t because of Saddam. He was an aethiest for crying out loud he persecuted the Muslims. they were happy when he was out of power . Its because Bush is a Christian.


”Maybe France didn't want us to use their air space in Libya b/c they didn't want us bombing Libya. Just like Argentina won't let Britain use their air space to get to the Falkan islands. Stop blaming people and figure out WHY b/c only through understanding will we ever accomplish peace. and it is sad that people think peace is impossible today, and I will tell you right now that if it is imppossible (it is possible) it is not b/c of those terrorists but rather b/c of the people attacking the terrorists repeatedly, refusing to look for the answer of why they are terrorists. And if we don't look for the reason or why, then even if we kill them they will continue to pop up, until they are right on our backs and until we ourselves are terrorists. How will we become terrorists? By killing them just b/c they killed us, w/o looking for the answer of why.”

Why wouldn’t France want us to bomb terrorist camps? I don’t think they are terrorist but I wouldn’t put it past them. Just kidding. We have looked for why and we know why. They will always continue to kill us because Bush and America represent Christianity in general and they absolutely hate that. They will not stop until every Christian is killed. Don’t get me wrong the Arabs could be such a smart people. They created Algebra for crying out loud. (im not too happy about that but oh well).

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"How anyone could see mass graves and sarin gas unleashed on millions of innocent civilians good I will never know."

Neither do I, but that that doesn't justify war. What about the 30 kids each day kidnapped in Uganda, what about when we used to kick the crap out of black people, rape, and lynch them, are you saying we should have been blown up. Maybe in some aspects we should have been, but overall no. Innocent people would have died. Our land would have been destroyed just like present day, how the land in France is still messed up and they can't grow a lot of crops. There are plenty of horrible things happening to innocent civilians and just b/c the media decided to shine a light on Iraq, doesn't mean that it's happening no where else, and if we were aware of all of the horrible things, then Iraq would not seem so bad. Say they did blow us up b/c we were killing black people, many of the blacks themselves would die, and the white people trying to help them, so then everyone would be angry. Sometimes you just have to let things work themselves out and instead of bombing them, you need to talk to their governments.
And what about Mr. Bush now saying that American tax dollars aren't going to clean up Iraq, their oil money is? We bomb them and kill their people and now they have to clean it up themselves. But I'm sure, that of course we'll help by purchasing their oil even if they don't want to sell it to us, our military there will make them.
You said that you had no idea how anyone could perceive Bush as a terrorist. We'll there is a quote "evil will only prevail when good men do nothing" so in hopes that evil will not prevail you need to except that some do even if they are wrong in thinking so. Now you need to figure out why, b/c I can guarantee you this, they do have valid reasons, and even though those valid reasons do not make Bush a terrorist, if you want your children to grow up in a more peaceful nation where they won't be bombed, then you need to figure out why and work w/ it to stop their hatred. That is what I mean by Einsteins theory of perception, if you grew up in Oman or Yemen or Saudi Arabia etc then you would probably hold some type of dislike towards the west (including western europe), and that dislike and hatred is not based on stupid reasons, their is substance and history there. It is some peoples perception that Bush is a terrorist, and some people believe Bin Laden is one. Now just imagine that both are terrorists, now you need to figure out why, b/c by thinking that the other side (perception) is wrong, we are creating the path for future wars and hatred.
Maybe France didn't want us to use their air space in Libya b/c they didn't want us bombing Libya. Just like Argentina won't let Britain use their air space to get to the Falkan islands. Stop blaming people and figure out WHY b/c only through understanding will we ever accomplish peace. and it is sad that people think peace is impossible today, and I will tell you right now that if it is imppossible (it is possible) it is not b/c of those terrorists but rather b/c of the people attacking the terrorists repeatedly, refusing to look for the answer of why they are terrorists. And if we don't look for the reason or why, then even if we kill them they will continue to pop up, until they are right on our backs and until we ourselves are terrorists. How will we become terrorists? By killing them just b/c they killed us, w/o looking for the answer of why.

“We don't have military in france, they won't let us and I don't blame them. And so no, our military is not buying their goods and supporting their economy, if you want to blame someone supporting their economy, blame the fashion industry.”

Like Hell we don’t have troops in France! I think its one of the terms of NATO we don’t have as many soldiers in France as we do Germany we have a whole lot in Germany. and wiht teh soldiers in France buying their goods, we suport their economy.


”Is it possible they wouldn't let us bomb Libya b/c they didn't believe they were terrorist camps? Have you heard of Einsteins theory of perception, that their is no perception, only reality.”

I believe Libya admitted of terrorist camps in their country. Please tell me the relevance of Einstien’s perception theory?

“ To us, Osama bin Laden is a terrorist, to others, Bush is a terrorist. I'm not saying Bush is a terrorist b/c I don't believe he is, but that's what some think, and dont' call the people who think he is stupid either, maybe instead of blaming people all of the time, we should figure out why. For example, some people may not like the US b/c in the last decade, in the United Nations, the US and israel were the only two countries who voted to NOT get rid of land mines. So while we say we hate land mines and are sadden that they are still being used, we voted to keep them in use. (don't ask me where I find all my info please, I read a lot and can't remember every place I get it from so jsut go to the UN website and look it up if you want verification.)”

So some think that Usama is a good guy? Wow that’s interesting. I don’t know how anyone could think that Bush is a terrorist. Land mines where?


“what I'm trying to say is that maybe France preferred to take a different approach, instead of bombing them they looked at the entire picture and figured that even if the terrorist camps were bombed, the terrorists would pop up again, so they figured they needed to take a different approach and try to stop what is causing these human beings to turn into terrorists. Or on a more pessimist side, maybe they just didn't want to screw up their own economy b/c there was a debate going on in the UN b/c Europe's cattle were getting "paid" more then west african citizens were and it was hurting them, so they were using the African economy and France and Germany vetoed a bill to help the Africans.”

What other approach is there? And its not like we were asking them to bomb them, we were asking to use their airspace. weve tried negotiattions weve always done taht before using any force. tke iraq. negotiations ever since the end of teh First Gulf War. and some still think the war was unjustifiable.

“ I read on your profile about how you like to read political theoligian books, so maybe you could include and backround book in there about Libya and France. But do continue your reading b/c even if I loathe your opinions I still respect and appreciate that you know what your talking about rather then someone who doesn't. I could just be how France is, for example, instead of making the African countries fight for independence from them, one of the past presidents gave them back control of their own land, just like we gave back the the Panama Canal.”

hmmmmmm

"About NATO, North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It was created by the US and then in defense, the Soviet Union created the Warsaw Pact which I think is currently dissolved. Eastern Europe wants to be included so we will help their economies and France doesn't care about being included as much b/c their economy is doing well. So why should they support a war that they do not deem justifiable?”

Amy I will say this one more time. We aren’t asking them to go to war. Peace Mission! Something they seemed to be an advocate for before we asked them. Dump NATO!


“Poland supports us w/ troops, either b/c they truly support the cause or b/c they are kissing our butts to get on our good side and so that we will move our bases out of Germany to Poland and other Eastern European countries which is being discussed w/ the army.”

Actually I don’t know if Poland is in NATO but if they were then they’re fulfilling the terms set down by NATO. We are spending billions and billions of American dollars into an organization that does not benefit us tell me why we don’t just dump it?
You know that if it were France having the problems, we would be the first behind them to support. Im not talking about the UN, Im talking about France. They did not want us to go into war with Saddam because they had illegal oil deals with saddam. And they did not want to loose them.

”You complain about them not listening to the US in NATO but can you honestly blame them? After all in the UN, which is composed of the world not just who we deem fit to enter(NATO), they all told us DO NOT GO INTO IRAQ and we said "we hear you" but proceeded anyways. Whether or not the war in Iraq is justified is your call, but if the whole world is saying, don't do it, then shouldn't we at least listen and consider their side.”

I think I answered most of that in the paragraph above. How anyone could see mass graves and sarin gas unleashed on millions of innocent civilians good I will never know.


”Another example, the UN had been repeating to us, lift your sanctions off of Cuba, you are hurting them, but we ignore them. Our presidents have not even been to Cuba, Kennedy was going to go but was then assasinated. I have a friend who just moved here from Haiti (it's so unfair b/c she speaks perfect english w/ no accent and perfect french and is good at spanish, but off topic) and they used to have sanctions on them b/c of their gov. but she says how horrible it was b/c even though her family could afford food, many couldn' b/c it was so expensive and then couldn't eat. So the people suffered b/c of their governments wrongdoings that hurt them also and they didn't even support. We say we don't trade w/ Cuba b/c their communist, but what about China and Vietnam? Castro took over b/c all of the few rich cubans and non cuban people held all of the land w/ their sugar plantations so he came about and redistributed the land. In the mean time, the rich cubans left, placing their economy in the toilet. Even if we don't like communism, how is it that we can say no to cuba but yes to china and vietnam? and is placing sanctions on them that the world is telling us to lift, a good idea? is that justice? And you can also say Castro is cruel to his people, but in actuality, many Cubans love him, and besides, the US can be mean to it's own people, and if you look at the globe, a lot of those countries can be mean also.”


Im sorry to disappoint you but I know alot about of cuba and castro other then the things of war on them and how kennedy told them that we would never go to war with them again. I know about all the crisises and I know about our base there right now which we pay for but other than that I don’t know. Cuba hasn’t been my specialty. I might research it though.

“The French are not evil and if we are not going to listen to the UN then at least we have some contact w/ the outside world through NATO, and France have every right to not participate in acts that they find unjustifiable, it is their right. NATO could kick France out, but they probably wouldn't care, and the rest of Europe would probably voluntarily leave, leaving the US w/ no mask to hide behind.”

We aren’t asking them to go to war! I guess you haven’t heard me stress this so much on this website. Just a peace mission something they seemed to love peace so much during the war.
They didn’t want to go to war fine. Just a peace mission and they will not help us even with that.

this post has proudly been deemed racism free by teh Honorable Coalition of Bushsupporter, Marine 16, notsojoey, FreeMarketLover, and Redrepublican and their endless pursuit to cast out the bigotry that has infiltrated youthNOISE.

We don't have military in france, they won't let us and I don't blame them. And so no, our military is not buying their goods and supporting their economy, if you want to blame someone supporting their economy, blame the fashion industry.
Is it possible they wouldn't let us bomb Libya b/c they didn't believe they were terrorist camps? Have you heard of Einsteins theory of perception, that their is no perception, only reality. To us, Osama bin Laden is a terrorist, to others, Bush is a terrorist. I'm not saying Bush is a terrorist b/c I don't believe he is, but that's what some think, and dont' call the people who think he is stupid either, maybe instead of blaming people all of the time, we should figure out why. For example, some people may not like the US b/c in the last decade, in the United Nations, the US and israel were the only two countries who voted to NOT get rid of land mines. So while we say we hate land mines and are sadden that they are still being used, we voted to keep them in use. (don't ask me where I find all my info please, I read a lot and can't remember every place I get it from so jsut go to the UN website and look it up if you want verification.) what I'm trying to say is that maybe France preferred to take a different approach, instead of bombing them they looked at the entire picture and figured that even if the terrorist camps were bombed, the terrorists would pop up again, so they figured they needed to take a different approach and try to stop what is causing these human beings to turn into terrorists. Or on a more pessimist side, maybe they just didn't want to screw up their own economy b/c there was a debate going on in the UN b/c Europe's cattle were getting "paid" more then west african citizens were and it was hurting them, so they were using the African economy and France and Germany vetoed a bill to help the Africans. I read on your profile about how you like to read political theoligian books, so maybe you could include and backround book in there about Libya and France. But do continue your reading b/c even if I loathe your opinions I still respect and appreciate that you know what your talking about rather then someone who doesn't. I could just be how France is, for example, instead of making the African countries fight for independence from them, one of the past presidents gave them back control of their own land, just like we gave back the the Panama Canal.

About NATO, North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It was created by the US and then in defense, the Soviet Union created the Warsaw Pact which I think is currently dissolved. Eastern Europe wants to be included so we will help their economies and France doesn't care about being included as much b/c their economy is doing well. So why should they support a war that they do not deem justifiable? Poland supports us w/ troops, either b/c they truly support the cause or b/c they are kissing our butts to get on our good side and so that we will move our bases out of Germany to Poland and other Eastern European countries which is being discussed w/ the army.
You complain about them not listening to the US in NATO but can you honestly blame them? After all in the UN, which is composed of the world not just who we deem fit to enter(NATO), they all told us DO NOT GO INTO IRAQ and we said "we hear you" but proceeded anyways. Whether or not the war in Iraq is justified is your call, but if the whole world is saying, don't do it, then shouldn't we at least listen and consider their side.
Another example, the UN had been repeating to us, lift your sanctions off of Cuba, you are hurting them, but we ignore them. Our presidents have not even been to Cuba, Kennedy was going to go but was then assasinated. I have a friend who just moved here from Haiti (it's so unfair b/c she speaks perfect english w/ no accent and perfect french and is good at spanish, but off topic) and they used to have sanctions on them b/c of their gov. but she says how horrible it was b/c even though her family could afford food, many couldn' b/c it was so expensive and then couldn't eat. So the people suffered b/c of their governments wrongdoings that hurt them also and they didn't even support. We say we don't trade w/ Cuba b/c their communist, but what about China and Vietnam? Castro took over b/c all of the few rich cubans and non cuban people held all of the land w/ their sugar plantations so he came about and redistributed the land. In the mean time, the rich cubans left, placing their economy in the toilet. Even if we don't like communism, how is it that we can say no to cuba but yes to china and vietnam? and is placing sanctions on them that the world is telling us to lift, a good idea? is that justice? And you can also say Castro is cruel to his people, but in actuality, many Cubans love him, and besides, the US can be mean to it's own people, and if you look at the globe, a lot of those countries can be mean also.
The French are not evil and if we are not going to listen to the UN then atleast we have some contact w/ the outside world through NATO, and France have every right to not participate in acts that they find unjustifiable, it is their right. NATO could kick France out, but they probably wouldn't care, and the rest of Europe would probably voluntarily leave, leaving the US w/ no mask to hide behind.

No doubt, everyone in WWII regretted and prayed for the end of the war every day, too. Did that make them any less avoidable?

The U.N. and France didn't support the war because they were being paid off by Saddam. At least, that was a major part of it. That's why the anti-French reaction. That, and the fact that France has generally been anything but a friend to us in recent history.

i think that the same way the UN doesn't support the U.S. with the war, neither does France, or most other countries. Yes, France didn't support us with other things in the past, but the same could be said about the U.S. with other countries. I don't see why many Americans now hold a grudge against France for not participating what half of, or most of Americans now regret and pray for an end of every day.

Jazzey can you refresh my memory with proof? because i was sure as hell that was Bushsupporter that said that.

this post has proudly been deemed racism free by the Honorable Coalition of Bushsuporter, Marine 16, notsojoey, and Redrepublican and their endless pursuit to cast out the bigotry that has infiltrated youthNOISE.'

hey iceland, EVERYONE HAS BIASES! I ADMITTED THAT. you canot talk to anyone who isnt biased.
you refused to answer my question yet again andrewcon, is the world chock full of racists since the entire world hates us? i do know alot about the French. No one cares to see the views we have in this war. Oh we know the views of France. THey are pissed off because we took out their buddy Saddam who traded oil with the French illegally. hmm whats hard to understand about that??

this post has proudly been deemed racism free by the Honorable Coalition of Bushsuporter, Marine 16, notsojoey, and Redrepublican and their endless pursuit to cast out the bigotry that has infiltrated youthNOISE.'

"looks like andrewcon is in the corner and is lashing out." Wow, now that's a great comeback. You've said the same thing to me before. "Lashing out"? hehe

Iceland, you should have seen from the outset that your argument is perhaps one of the stupidest arguements that possibly could have been made with respect to war; you, in effect, justified most U.S. wars and conflicts, and many others. After all, it was you who said, "A few thousand lives is nothing in a war".

I wasn't lashing out. You are merely upset with yourself, which is okay by me. Look a few posts previous, and you will see your own example of what "lashing out" really is. In fact, read all of your posts again and you might see the reason I say "Black Panthers." I really try to stop from arguing with people like you; sometimes it is difficult. I won't be posting here anymore, unless I read something I believe is absolutely absurd, as I wouldn't want to stoop to the level of the person awarded with "The Uber Idiot Cult Ultra Idiot Award".

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-----"""Hey un- American (ICELAND) go move out to Iceland. We don’t need anymore of your incoherence here."""

No. I don't speak the language there. But I do appreciate the un-American comment. It just once again proves how in America sometimes you're not free to criticize America. Arg. Sooooo typical.

I don't care about this topic anymore. You're biased, and arguing with biased people like you over the internet rarely accomplishes anything.

All I can say is it's stupid and pointless to hate the French, especially if you know nothing about them (nothing also equates to what most Americans know about the French). It's kind of strange, but it seems America just leaps at the opportunity to attack the French. I find this odd, and certainly undeserved, but not surprising considering how different they are from us. We are a nation of prudes and laborers, they are a nation of artists and people who value living happy lives foremost.

I am astounded you cannot see the "BIG CONFLICT" from their viewpoint.