Well... I see that you didn't quite understand what I am getting at. I am merely saying that Conservatives are not the only ones who do things either, although the majority of the people on this board would have you believe that. I didnt say that Arafat was the first one to utilize terrorism, I said that he was the first one to make it mainstream, It's true.
As for Clinton, I will make a board to discuss this issue as to not get off topic on this one. Please join in on it so that I can help YOU understand the facts.
Do I think that Clinton was a tyrant? No, but he is just as much of one as Bush or religion or America. That is what I said. Please read the whole post

"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

P.S.- No Freedom is not free by definition. What you fail to get from the quotation, is that freedom ALWAYS comes at a cost. ALWAYS.

I don't pin stuff on him.

WHAT. THE. HELL. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Do you know anything or do you just make things as you go along. Of course, conservatives will try to pin ANYTHING on Clinton, and while he had many, many faults they don't include anything that conservatives accuse him of.

September 11th has very little to do with Clinton. Want to know some...you know, facts?

The intelligence agencies of Israel, France, Egypt, and several other countries specifcally warned the US that a terrorist group, quite possibly Al Qaeda, was planning to attack the US, quite possibly the World Trade Center.

What did George Bush and the CIA do? NOTHING. In fact, they withdrew intelligence agents from several places where information about terrorist attacks could have been intercepted.

September 11th quite possibly could have been avoided, but the crackerocracy deliberately let it occur.

Why?

Because that would temporarily give George W Bush support to attack Afghanistan, Iraq, and get the proto-fascist Patriot Act into law?

HMMMMMMM. I WONDER! I WONDER!

Oh yeah, there were terrorists before Yassir Arafat....just so you know.

Wow, Bushsupporter, that last paragraph was awfully muddled. But I think I know what you're trying to communicate. You're trying to blame every problem ever on leftists. That's nice. I guess you can think that, even though you're horribly simplistic and ill-informed.

You can think that, meanwhile I think that you're a promiscuous, incestous harlot of subaverage cognitive ability.

Anyone want to translate that for Monsieur *******isto?

Jah Love.

[This message was edited by YNLissa on May 27, 2003 at 06:39 AM.]

I saw this topic and i bet myself that there would be at least one post saying that Bush is one, that America is one, and that religion is one. After reading the post, I wish I wasn't right because being right makes me sick in this case. I am ashamed of you all who said these things.
How about Clinton? His pro-abortion policy help to allow the killing of countless innocent lives. His moronic and cowardly foriegn policy allow the killing of thousands of Americans to the hands of terrorists. Sept. 11 is on his head as far as I'm concerned.
How about Yassar Arafat, whose cowardly ways of persuasion has led to countless Isrealis dead and much more injured? He is the father of terrorism you know?
How about the radical leftists who have pushed for the acceptance of the swinging pendulum of relativism which has made Americans hostile to God, morals, and values. Virtue is gone and we are to accept all lifestyles, no matter how deplorable, except religion. It is OK to not like religion and people who trust in God and conservatives. Everyone else must be accepted.
All of these people are tyrants if Bush, Religion, and America are.


"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

the tyrant may not be bad, but the fact that they hold control over all, giving thier people no say, is not right.

really,I'm talking about the 3rd world president

Phony elections? Ah, so you're talking about George W Bush.

A tyrant may not kill his people or torture them as classical ones. To me tyrants are those leaders whom their people can't remove him from office ( even after phony elections) ,& imposed on them & the world ,& it's not uncommon in this world.

While the classical Greek definition of tyrant wasn't neccesarily bad, it's become pretty reliably horrible.

In case anyone doesn't know the true definition of a tyrant, it is a single ruler who gains and holds power by force. Tyrants aren't always bad.

I don't care what anyone says, if you're a tyrant, you're as bad as the rest.

You can't say that George Bush killed 0.0 million people. Dictators can stay in place for up to 50 years at a time. However, American "Presidents" are limited to 8 years.

But, you can't just consider one president at a time. Add 8 years of Ronald Reagan to 4 years of George Bush I and 4 years of George Bush II and you've got 16 years there of oppressing South America, Central America, parts of Asia, and the Middle East. The Bush/Reagan Crime Family probably hasn't DIRECTLY killed more than 1 million people yet, and it can't really yet be said that Dubya is as bad as Hitler, Stalin, or Mao in a bad mood. However, since Reagan these people have been trying to kill the international system, the United Nations, and greedily taking power for themselves while ignoring everything else. These people are definatly a huge source of evil in the world, the dirty, dirty ********* that they are. We can only hope and pray that something will stop them before they allow another terrorist attack to happen and declare a state of emergency stopping the 2004 election. Hey, it could happen.

Jah love.

[This message was edited by YNLissa on May 24, 2003 at 06:11 AM.]

European conservatives?
Hitler was focused on progressives of any kind. Even religious ones.

Salaam

hitler killed more people intentionally with the holocaust. stalin did intentionally kill some people, but most of the people who died while stalin was in power died from starvation, disease, weather, etc., of which could be prevented by stalin. (well, not the weather, but you know what i mean.)

Stalin killed more of his people because a) Russia (USSR) was larger than any other totalitarian-governed country so more people were exposed to the chaos; b) revolution, civil war, famine, etc. took a horrible toll on the citizens, and c) Stalin brought about his comminist views by as much violence as he deemed necessary.

Hitler didn't kill as many people, although he purposely set goals to wipe out all non-Germans, killing anyone who opposed him; including Christians, communists, European conservatives, and of course, Jews. This genocide was deliberate, unlike Stalin, who's people mainly died because of poor conditions, violent revolutions, etc.

Either way, they were both murderous tyrants, heh.

hey, i liked little richard! sure, he's pretty creepy, and a little weird, but you have to admit that you still get up and dance when you hear "good golly miss molly". admit it!

stalin was pretty bad...so was hitler. i'd put it between those two. or ivan the terrible. bad enough to be named after it.

i can't help but say america. all i can think of watching this was an interview i saw with a vietnam vet. who was talking about the oppression of the red coats in the US's liberation and how in school he was taught that they were the bad guys and he realized while he was fighting over in nam that he was the red coat. that he was the bad guy, taking orders from some far off land to kill anyone who got in his way. it was the US who was going into a country and telling them that they couldn't live the way that they had been living and telling them that they had to change.

Really, people don't understand that Stalin killed more people than Hitler did. But, Hitler did attempt to conquer ther world, so....

I kind of agree with you, Doctor. But on the other hand society and culture are an unintended result of human interaction and therefore people aren't entirely responsible for them in the same way they are responsible for having created religion.

(Obviously human interaction can be standardized by tradition and culture and law, but I'm kind of talking about origins of society and culture here).

brooke- If your going to call religion a tyrant, call society and culture tyrants also. We're all at fault with that one.